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quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I don't understand the point of making the question so broad. If you're good at DJing, you should do it, if you're good at producing and have interesting ideas, you should also do that. Pretty simple, and should be judged on a case by case basis.

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Originally posted by david.michael Nail, head. Good producers should produce, good DJs should DJ. Some of them happen to be good at both.

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Originally posted by lenazi even if u look like a gay i have to agree. and even then, if you are taking the time to judge during an event the dj probably sucks because you stopped moving and started thinking.

...

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Originally posted by Domesticated I'm not debating whether or not producers make good DJs. My point is that they could play the best fucking set in the world and the audience could still be dissapointed and complain that they didn't play their big hit from last summer.

you had a site that devoted itself to staring at a dj and seeing what they did with knobs. lol knob.

chinstroking.com


*points*

went and saw tomcraft a little while ago at a semi cheesey techno night.

crowd was young and someone requested loneliness - and too my chagrin he played it.

you know what was worse though?

when i asked if he could play his best tune - the mission - and he said he doesnt play it anymore (and it would have fit right in).

so he still does the request for peice of shit hapiness is loneliness - but doesnt do the request for the best tune he ever made by a fucking mile??

now thats fucked up shit right there!

quote:

Originally posted by Clovis I don't understand the point of making the question so broad. If you're good at DJing, you should do it, if you're good at producing and have interesting ideas, you should also do that. Pretty simple, and should be judged on a case by case basis.

The point is that producers have taken over the dj booth completely due to the nature of the industry. Furthermore, clubbers are seemingly willing to overlook that they aren't necessarily very good DJs as long as they get to hear the big tunes that these producers are reknowned for. This is another side effect of dance music in the mainstream, as people now compare a DJ and actual musicians on the same terms in a live context, even though one of them is simply playing records.

Ultimately, this results in sets that aren't well-structured or catering to actual dancing, and instead get treated as simply another form of promotion and nothing more. These days, in almost any studio set from a reasonably well known DJ, at least 50% of the tunes will be financially tied to that DJ in some form or another. Do producers really have such a huge ego that they do not need anyone else's sound in their sets but their own?

I think this is less a question about producers and more about what we as dancefloor participants want to hear. I've noticed that in most meat market clubs and "rock nights", the crowd are primarily concerned with hearing tracks they know, and there's a sequence of button-pushing anthems that aren't just expected, they're required. If it's a Top 40 floor then you're talking about the latest smash hits, if it's a rock club you're talking Killing In The Name. If any period elapses without recognisable music, the crowd will become restless and thin out.

In dance music, we generally pride ourselves on a different approach. We don't need familiar choruses to allow us to participate, because we always have a beat to dance to and a groove to lock into. Records have limited shelf-life and are "played out" after a few months. We want to hear new things and we will criticise DJs who serve up over-familiar setlists.

So, on one hand I'd say that if a crowd is expecting a DJ to play certain recognisable hits, and particularly hits of their own, then they're bringing a pop approach to dance music, and making the DJ into a popstar and the dancefloor into a glorified karaoke stage. And, of course, this is a Bad Thing, because it leads ultimately to Tiesto.

But on the other hand, as soon as you start going to see named DJs you're bringing expectations to the floor about what they'll play and how they'll mix, so you're already enrolling in the cult of presence. If you go to a Sasha night and expect smooth mixing, a bit of Ableton trickery and melodic progressive (or washed out tech-prog, as the case may be), you're already placing a list of demands on him that he must obey in order to satisfy you. At that stage, wanting him to drop his remix of Ladytron is hardly much of a stretch.

And, let's not kid ourselves, hearing a big track we love on a good soundsystem while intoxicated and dancing is fucking good fun. Pop fans aren't entirely without reason. I'm weighing up seeing the 16 Bit Lolitas tonight, and part of the attraction is the possibility they'll play Nobody Seems To Care or the remix of On A Good Day. And if I do go and they don't, I will inevitably come away a bit disappointed.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think this is less a question about producers and more about what we as dancefloor participants want to hear. I've noticed that in most meat market clubs and "rock nights", the crowd are primarily concerned with hearing tracks they know, and there's a sequence of button-pushing anthems that aren't just expected, they're required. If it's a Top 40 floor then you're talking about the latest smash hits, if it's a rock club you're talking Killing In The Name. If any period elapses without recognisable music, the crowd will become restless and thin out. In dance music, we generally pride ourselves on a different approach. We don't need familiar choruses to allow us to participate, because we always have a beat to dance to and a groove to lock into. Records have limited shelf-life and are "played out" after a few months. We want to hear new things and we will criticise DJs who serve up over-familiar setlists. So, on one hand I'd say that if a crowd is expecting a DJ to play certain recognisable hits, and particularly hits of their own, then they're bringing a pop approach to dance music, and making the DJ into a popstar and the dancefloor into a glorified karaoke stage. And, of course, this is a Bad Thing, because it leads ultimately to Tiesto. But on the other hand, as soon as you start going to see named DJs you're bringing expectations to the floor about what they'll play and how they'll mix, so you're already enrolling in the cult of presence. If you go to a Sasha night and expect smooth mixing, a bit of Ableton trickery and melodic progressive (or washed out tech-prog, as the case may be), you're already placing a list of demands on him that he must obey in order to satisfy you. At that stage, wanting him to drop his remix of Ladytron is hardly much of a stretch. And, let's not kid ourselves, hearing a big track we love on a good soundsystem while intoxicated and dancing is fucking good fun. Pop fans aren't entirely without reason. I'm weighing up seeing the 16 Bit Lolitas tonight, and part of the attraction is the possibility they'll play Nobody Seems To Care or the remix of On A Good Day. And if I do go and they don't, I will inevitably come away a bit disappointed.

Nice post.

I am just praying for the next anti-dance music backlash. A Disco Demolition Night for the new millennium.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I'm weighing up seeing the 16 Bit Lolitas tonight, and part of the attraction is the possibility they'll play Nobody Seems To Care or the remix of On A Good Day. And if I do go and they don't, I will inevitably come away a bit disappointed.

Those there made AnjunaDeep:01 for me.

I have to agree - hearing a beloved track on those giant speakers with the lights & drunk girlies really do make it all the more enjoyable.

Sometimes though I'll be so used to hearing the song I'm kind of disappointed when the DJ alters the pitch/treble/what-have-you to better incorporate it into the set. It's just not the same

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Originally posted by woscar I'd go ahead and say that it's the party-goer's fault and not the producer's Although, in some cases the DJ whores out his own productions in every gig he plays which creates expectations in the party-goers. PvD and Tiesto are perfect examples of this. I still can't believe Tiesto is still playing his remix of "Silence" in every damn set.

actually i havent heard tiesto in ages, but i was told he had retired that remix a long time ago.

yeah he retires it every year and justs adds an 07, 08, 09 version instead even though it is pretty much identical

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Originally posted by Danny Ocean actually i havent heard tiesto in ages, but i was told he had retired that remix a long time ago.

This tracklisting is from last week:

01. Steve Forte Rio � A New Dawn
02. Rank 1 � L.E.D There be Light (James Doman Remix)
03. Mr Hudson feat. Kanye West � Supernova (Calvin Harris Remix)
04. Temper Trap � Eurythmic Disposition (Eddie Thoneick Bootleg)
05. Tiesto � Flight 643 (Laidback Luke Remix)
06. Tiesto and Sneaky Sound System - I Will Be Here (Tiesto Remix)
07. MGMT � Kids (Soulwax Remix)
08. Basement Jaxx � Raindrops (Robbie Rivera Club Mix)
09. Tiesto feat. Tegan & Sara - Feel It In My Bones
10. Dustin Zahn � Stranger To Stability (Len Faki Podium Mix)
11. Avicii � Time to get Ill
12. Delerium � Silence (DJ Tiesto�s In Search of Sunrise Mix)
13. Example - Watch the sun come up (Moam Remix)
14. Reboot - Caminando
15. Tiesto � Lethal Industry (Hardwell Remix)
16. Eric Prydz � Pjanoo (Dada Life Remix)
17. Red Hot Chilli Peppers vs Benny Benassi � My Otherside
18. Tiesto � Louder than Boom
19. Editors - Papillion (Tiesto Remix)
20. Yeah Yeah Yeah�s � Heads will Roll (Tiesto Remix)
21. Calvin Harris � I�m not Alone (Tiesto Remix)
22. Tiesto � Adagio for Strings
23. Olive - You�re Not Alone (Paul Webster Remix)
24. MGMT � Time to Pretend (High Contrast Remix)

quote:

Originally posted by Sand Leaper The point is that producers have taken over the dj booth completely due to the nature of the industry. Furthermore, clubbers are seemingly willing to overlook that they aren't necessarily very good DJs as long as they get to hear the big tunes that these producers are reknowned for. This is another side effect of dance music in the mainstream, as people now compare a DJ and actual musicians on the same terms in a live context, even though one of them is simply playing records. Ultimately, this results in sets that aren't well-structured or catering to actual dancing, and instead get treated as simply another form of promotion and nothing more. These days, in almost any studio set from a reasonably well known DJ, at least 50% of the tunes will be financially tied to that DJ in some form or another. Do producers really have such a huge ego that they do not need anyone else's sound in their sets but their own?

Yeah, I agree there is a problem. The DJs and shows I attend largely are devoid of it though. Nobody really cares to hear their big records, unless woven in well.

It is sad to me also to see "DJ Mixes" like Fabric or other series becoming just another way to sell your music for some guys. (Radio Slave's last one). At the same time, these guys are trying to stay ahead and make money and there is always a balance to be had there, though personally I think you can do just fine without turning a DJ set into a "this is what I make" listening party.

the good thing about music is that if you don't like something you can always change it. thank god we have more than 1 dj.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery This tracklisting is from last week: 01. Steve Forte Rio � A New Dawn 02. Rank 1 � L.E.D There be Light (James Doman Remix) 03. Mr Hudson feat. Kanye West � Supernova (Calvin Harris Remix) 04. Temper Trap � Eurythmic Disposition (Eddie Thoneick Bootleg) 05. Tiesto � Flight 643 (Laidback Luke Remix) 06. Tiesto and Sneaky Sound System - I Will Be Here (Tiesto Remix) 07. MGMT � Kids (Soulwax Remix) 08. Basement Jaxx � Raindrops (Robbie Rivera Club Mix) 09. Tiesto feat. Tegan & Sara - Feel It In My Bones 10. Dustin Zahn � Stranger To Stability (Len Faki Podium Mix) 11. Avicii � Time to get Ill 12. Delerium � Silence (DJ Tiesto�s In Search of Sunrise Mix) 13. Example - Watch the sun come up (Moam Remix) 14. Reboot - Caminando 15. Tiesto � Lethal Industry (Hardwell Remix) 16. Eric Prydz � Pjanoo (Dada Life Remix) 17. Red Hot Chilli Peppers vs Benny Benassi � My Otherside 18. Tiesto � Louder than Boom 19. Editors - Papillion (Tiesto Remix) 20. Yeah Yeah Yeah�s � Heads will Roll (Tiesto Remix) 21. Calvin Harris � I�m not Alone (Tiesto Remix) 22. Tiesto � Adagio for Strings 23. Olive - You�re Not Alone (Paul Webster Remix) 24. MGMT � Time to Pretend (High Contrast Remix)

sad...

quote:

Originally posted by lenazi and i don't mean the guy in my avatar because he is the jesus of dance music sans pose. i think the thread should be about prolific producers vs those that release maybe 5 tracks a year.

have u heard Ricardo's Live at Clubnight (XXL HR) 09-06-2003?, its three parts..anyways he totally spins such a great set back then. I still like him a lot though, and yeah hes an awesome producer/DJ...but ya htis mix he builds it up so nicely..if u want it i can upload.

saw Martyn and Tiefschwarz the other week, I'd say both are probably most well known for the productions rather than DJing, both were fucking brilliant, much better than so called pure DJ's I've seen

quote:

Originally posted by Danny Ocean have u heard Ricardo's Live at Clubnight (XXL HR) 09-06-2003?, its three parts..anyways he totally spins such a great set back then. I still like him a lot though, and yeah hes an awesome producer/DJ...but ya htis mix he builds it up so nicely..if u want it i can upload.

i've heard it a long time ago, but i would like the upload

put it on www.soundcloud.com

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