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-- Skill vs Talent
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I am the other way around, I have accumulated tons of skill in sound synthesis and effects programming but it still takes me forever to come up with a melody that I think is even halfway decent. I need to team up with someone who has great musical talent but little programming skill to form a dynamic duo.

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Originally posted by Nightshift This is the way I see it. Production = skill Songwriting/Composition = talent

i don't think you can really seperate production and composition anymore. EDM producers are still composers.

Wow - I'm pretty shocked at how many people didn't realize what researchers have been telling for us for decades or even centuries - children learn quicker than adults do, whether it's cognitive skills, motor skills, speech/language skills, emotional and behavioral development, etc. You don't need a bunch of forum nerds to tell you that - go to your local medical school library and look through the child development and psychology section if you don't believe it. So, it's simple - if you start later in life, you're going to have a much harder time developing musical or technical skills for producing. As MrJBJ consistently stated numerous times, that doesn't mean you can't become great at it, but you're certainly at a disadvantage compared to someone who started at an early age.

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Originally posted by RichieV i don't think you can really seperate production and composition anymore. EDM producers are still composers.

Yer... just because a lot of people do both doesn't mean they're not separate things.

I agree with JBJ, Cryo, etc - kids do learn a lot faster, and have a lot more time to devote to learning.

Be that as it may, I judge personal beliefs by how useful they are.

If I have the belief "I can't be a great musician unless I started at age 3 and devoted 12 hours a day to it", then that belief won't be very helpful to me. It won't inspire me to do my best.

If I have the belief "I can learn how to make fantastic music, even though I just started making music last month, because I have incredible passion for it", then that will provide me with extra motivation during the frustrating times.

Maybe someone who started at the age of 50 won't (or can't) become one of the greatest composers/musicians/producers ever. But if they tell themselves that, I think it will limit how great they are able to be.

never heard of him, yet the edm scene in norway is pretty small so i shouldve, werd. is he gray in his hair btw, how long has this dude been active?

btw... starting with production too early might result in lack of inspiration.

edit: barfed a little when listening to his tracks at myspace, will not read.

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Originally posted by SDM btw... starting with production too early might result in lack of inspiration.

How so?

i cant really explain it but people that are good at something before fully grown (like 20) usualy grow it off. it could be for many reasons.
since youve been doing it so long people expect you to be very good at it, and this create some sort of pressure that often cracks down young people. it could also be that you see that others are suddenly getting better than you at it, beacuse people learn really fast at around 20 years old and the learning curve is fastest in the start, so while you arent really learning anything new, everyone else seems to make it work really easily. Also creativity usualy is highest when u just started making music, but its kinda wasted if your mind isnt fully grown to make something awesome at early age. Kid stars usually go to hell to say it pretty. I really dont know though but it seems that people that go into music-production a little later in their life, when everythings stabile often means their serious about it, and stays a whole lot longer, while young people are constantly changing and dont know what the hell they want with their lives. Also music is pretty technical today and its not sure kids are smart enough to learn a daw well now that everything is on a computer. I remember trying to learn cubase (or cubasic i think it was called) pretty early and it made me give up on the whole production side of things. So i stayed on djeing instead beacuse i loved music so much. But then someone showed me Reason when I was like 23 or something and it changed everything. Thinking about it now it could probably have been any daw, i was just motivated to do it, and i was somehow ready. Might be only shit though haha i dont know.

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Originally posted by SDM i cant really explain it but people that are good at something before fully grown (like 20) usualy grow it off.

Yes there are the instrumentalists who get burnt out after being drilled on piano or violin or whatever from an early age. There are also thousands of people who take up production when they are in their late teens or early twenties only to throw in the towel a few years later. How do you know the first group is any larger than the second?

those are the same group imo. though people who produce at 25+ probably means something about it beacuse if not theyd be doing something else simply because its a waste of time and money making music. then you have the geniuses which make awesome tracks their whole life, from their first contact with gear till they die (often early). i cant name anyone really, those are incredible rare in edm, Lieb is the closest one but even he is loosing it lately. Then u have the entusiasts who are determine to make music whether they have talent or not, they just love it, and i think this is most of us in this part of forum. On the other hand i think everyones a mix of all this and everyone have their story, so its not possible to put people into groups really. It might be that a pianist playing concerts at the age of ten suddenly make hardhouse at the age of 30 and doing nothing music related in between. Producers are random people.

this isnt just music though.

Girls that where pretty on kid-school mostly suck now, and the geeky skinny nerds are suddenly good looking and will probably last alot longer too.

Everyone I know that where good in fotbal when they where small sucks now while others that u thought where wimps suddenly make it.

The ones that struggled most in classes suddenly have good jobs and shit.

And then u have the ones that never change.

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Originally posted by SDM Also music is pretty technical today and its not sure kids are smart enough to learn a daw well now that everything is on a computer. I remember trying to learn cubase (or cubasic i think it was called) pretty early and it made me give up on the whole production side of things. So i stayed on djeing instead beacuse i loved music so much. .

kids these know how to hack into the pentagon. i'm pretty sure for alot of young teens, using a DAW isn't that hard. And you confuse child prodigies with the thousand others that just start music young. Prodigies are the ones that tend to burn out, not people that start young.

Also of course u need to have some fucking experience in a club before making a bomb track! Not that many have that before the age of 20. And this is probably the catalyst of your desire to produce for many. The first experience at a 8000 people crowd going mental to the beat.

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Originally posted by SDM Also of course u need to have some fucking experience in a club before making a bomb track! Not that many have that before the age of 20. And this is probably the catalyst of your desire to produce for many. The first experience at a 8000 people crowd going mental to the beat.

or an internet connection and some speakers.

And when went to raves, i'm pretty sure there were 16 year olds there.
You are making the argument that life experience facilitates art and I agree but in logical terms, denying the antecedent ( saying that not having experience will make you not able) is an invalid argument.

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Originally posted by RichieV kids these know how to hack into the pentagon. i'm pretty sure for alot of young teens, using a DAW isn't that hard. And you confuse child prodigies with the thousand others that just start music young. Prodigies are the ones that tend to burn out, not people that start young.

Hackers have some sort of goal that makes them learn fast. Also hacking isnt really that complicated and you can almost find anything on the web on how to. A Daw is like yeah they might learn how it works, but for what? They dont have the abstract way of thinking, the vision that is needed to make a good track. Oh i dont know but artistic creative work is something special that very few young people can do good. Its not just music, its everything. Kids are just too fucking dumb lol. They arent self-aware and especialy todays kids have no consentration haha. I must sound really old lol.

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Originally posted by SDM Hackers have some sort of goal that makes them learn fast. Also hacking isnt really that complicated and you can almost find anything on the web on how to. .

ditto for music.
Just stop.

It seem like you are justifying your own progress vis a vis your age.

quote:

Originally posted by SDM Also of course u need to have some fucking experience in a club before making a bomb track! Not that many have that before the age of 20. And this is probably the catalyst of your desire to produce for many. The first experience at a 8000 people crowd going mental to the beat.

I know some of the massive events around here do cater to "all responsible ages," but they still have alcohol.

Probably...

I think we need examples, as Im terrible at getting my arguments understood lol.

I dont know anyone who made good EDM at a young age and still does.
On the other hand I really dont know the age of most of my favorite producers.

Some of my favorits like Underworld, Prodigy, Moby, Daft Punk, where all pretty old when successing. Marco V was pretty old when getting world-wide popular. SVD was pretty young and he lastet 1,5 years.

Other examples?

yo yo ma

and all those artists you named had to have money for equipment or studio time. There are no longer any financial gate keepers to make music anymore. And i'm pretty sure only the prodigy out of that last are still active. Maybe people just get bored ?

Again just because you find examples of your side doesn't mean it can't happen the other way.

Jonas Brothers
Beyonce
MIchael Jackson

ofcourse there are alot of exceptions, but i lost my statement somewhere here haha. im only saying that i think that at the younger age you succeed the shorter youll last, like normaly atleast. forget all the other bable i said haha.

btw i wasnt really talking about performers in pop which beyoncey etc is. i was talking about writing good music, mostly edm.

ah man forget it all, ull never understand what im trying to say anyway, as im so bad at explaining myself.

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Originally posted by SDM this isnt just music though. Girls that where pretty on kid-school mostly suck now, and the geeky skinny nerds are suddenly good looking and will probably last alot longer too. Everyone I know that where good in fotbal when they where small sucks now while others that u thought where wimps suddenly make it. The ones that struggled most in classes suddenly have good jobs and shit. And then u have the ones that never change.

I think you just notice the ones who change more than the ones who stay the same. Yeah I know people who used to be fatties and got in shape or athletic and got fat, but for the most part people stick with the habits they had in their adolescence IMO.

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Originally posted by SDM the younger age you succeed the shorter youll last,

maybe it was the person who succeeded that decided not to pursue it ?
I just don't understand your frame of thinking. Maybe they move on to other styles of music. How is that a bad thing ? I did dance for 3 years and then studied classical composition. Maybe people learn as much as they want to learn and move on to things that excite them. How is this good or bad or any of your concern ?

and again , the young succeeding is not the same as learning young. It is logical that someone who cannot grasp success in a mature manner will most likely start snorting cocaine and take a little life detour.

The more experience you have in anything, the more advantages you will have. This applies to everything including music. The sooner you clock in the hours, the sooner you will be at a professional level. As far as what you do with that success, well that is up to the individual. I personally would take my chances with the cash money hoes.

coke would explain my statement (or postulate really). maybe im just think that everyones loosers. u sucked me dry on this one, now i dont mean anything anymore, the little opinion i had is gonne, thank you.

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Originally posted by SDM coke would explain my statement (or postulate really). maybe im just think that everyones loosers.

you should get help with your addiction.

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Originally posted by RichieV you should get help with your addiction.

?

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Originally posted by MrJiveBoJingles Trying to be a CEO is not something that reshapes your brain structure like music and language acquisition do. It takes skill, certainly, but it is not something for which children have an enormous neurological advantage like language and music.

It's all the same man. It's acquired knowledge. You acquire it and then you put it into play. It's the same with everything in life. I know a genius that was best friends with my cousin that taught himself fluent chinese in 7 months at age 17. It's all about the will and passion to get where you want in regards to whatever you're doing.

There is one thing common in all of these people. There is no such thing as doubt.

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