TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- DJ Booth
-- Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?
Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »

quote:

Originally posted by SPAWNmaster It's an idea. And I can't think of any one "big name" as an example at the moment but I'm sure any of us can think of a local guy who is amazing with a sequencer like Ableton who doesn't have the traditional vinyl/cdj background.

OR the ability to make it big because of the amount of shite dj's out there. End of the day, it's who you know not what you know.

If my friend knows more people and plays of a laptop, he'll get more gigs and earn more money even if he is playing for cheaper.

End of the day, it's all about track selection these days. No one cares how you're putting it together any more. 90% of the crowd don't give a rats ass if you're using vinyl, cd's, DVS, or a laptop. They want good music that's it. 8% care about the equipment and 2% are angry at you for not using vinyl.

Re: Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?

quote:

Originally posted by djnitride Why do some DJ's look down on everything but vinyl?

Why do old people hate computers?

(Damn kids with your fancy machines.)

Re: Re: Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?

quote:

Originally posted by DiscoStew Why do old people hate computers? (Damn kids with your fancy machines.)

Can't really compare that because computers do a lot of things better and faster than we can, which is not analogous to the Vinyl/dgital debate (the quality is lower and the task is essentially the same etc.)

here are my sentiments on the subject from other threads:

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I also, don't really like the idea of always looking at a screen to mix - it detracts from the tactile relationship with decks and therefore the performance aspect of a set, resulting in IMO, in more boring music.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN This is so funny. About 2 years ago when the whole DVS thing exploded, I posted in various threads about how the use of the laptop detracted from the DJ'ing performance, and how I feel that from laptops sets that I've done and witnessed vs CDJ sets, the night, the music , the mixing (etc.) was so much better. Loads of people argued saying laptops don't detract from the performance and how there are so much more possibilities with laptop (blah blah blah) and now people seem to be saying the same thing. Granted, they let you have a much larger library of tracks at your figertips and some of the features are nice but I have still never seen a laptop set that was better than even a mediocre CDJ ot Vinyl set.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN I've always noticed that gigs l've witnessed or done with a laptop (not out of choice) are susub par compared to cdj or vinyl sets. There is something about a dj having to look at a computer screen that destroys the dj performance part of it and detracts from the feeling of the set, and again, therefore the performance. For the dj's that are incredibly passive when djing, it doesn't matter as much but is still noticeable. That staring at the screen just removes them from the crowd, and it shows. Also, on another note, I WOULD NEVER just bring a laptop and DVS system for a gig - you always have to take CD's anyway in case there is a problem so why bother with a laptop in the first place. Yeah don't get me wrong, dvs have their benefits but even serato isn't stable 100% of the time and when you're getting paid to play you just can't take that risk IMO. The only system I've used intesively is serato and even that has gone down ocasionally. Combine that with the extra performance aspects of CD's and that's why I prefer (along with many others now it seems) tactile CD or vinyl djing.

Most of the time when Im doing the VDJ thing, I am messing with my midi mixer (VCI-300) and jumping around/dancing, just like you would with a CDJ. The ONLY time I stare at my screen is to load a track, once I am done with that its back to the mixer to beatmatch, etc.

DJ Rann, are you talking about ONLY using a laptop, without a midi mixer?

Its my eventual goal to get the Numark NS7, I think that would be the best of both worlds.

blah blah blah......if you play anything but vinyl ur gay............im just fucking with you, all of it takes time, talent, and of course CASH!!

Re: Re: Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?

quote:

Originally posted by DisposableYouth Why do you even have to beatmatch it yourself? [/controversial statement] If beat syncing software had been invented in the 70s, people would think you're mad trying to manually sync 2 tunes now. It's only seen as it is because historically that's how it had to be done. The fact is, beat syncing software has reduced the value of a DJ, whether they use it or not: more people can 'beatmatch' as a result of it... some press a button, others sync it manually, but to the people on the floor it's the same... so what was special about a DJ who can beatmatch is no longer as special. By fairly basic economics, that reduces the value of a DJ, means you can charge less for gigs, makes it harder to stand out and so on. Don't get me wrong, there will always be extra praise given to those who do it manually - in the same way that a turntablist beat juggling gets more praise than someone hitting a loop button to create the same effect. But unless you really feel it adds something to your act, don't feel you have to bow to history and do it manually yourself. Look at other ways you can make your sets special. Note I'm not saying don't beatmatch manually... I still do it myself, partly because I enjoy it a lot more, but just don't take it for granted that to be a 'real DJ', you have to. Just my �2.45

Agreed, totally.

quote:

Originally posted by Schadenfreude you don't have to do anything, but if you learn how to beatmatch yourself you will improve your timing and by default make yourself a better dj in the long run even if you let a program do it for you. a lot of kids that never learn to beatmatch also never learn the basics such as beat counting and phrasing, which make for shitty mixing even when auto beatmatched imo.

Also agreed, but if the world is a just place you'll get shown up for being shit. Unfortunately it isn't and people who can't beatmatch with or without software still get gigs, but naturally they're at a disadvantage because there are at least SOME punters who will realise they're shit.

I do think that learning on vinyl and learning to beatmatch manually teaches you a lot about music and sound itself, but I guess we're also talking about the other side here of people who have done all that in the past and have now switched to pressing the sync button to save them some time and effort. I guess I'm saying the act of using the sync button isn't a problem, but I appreciate there's a lot of benefit from going down the long learning route to get there.

quote:

Originally posted by msz "i" dont think its the same; looking at a dj stare at a laptop. i wanna see him sweat, concentrate harder, almost fuck up once maybe. translates more energy to me.

There is that - plus there's the commonly cited idea that mixing stuff like techno sounds better if it's ever so slightly rough in places, but I'd easily give that up to avoid hearing trainwrecks. I guess you could manually roughen up a synced mix with the right tools - Traktor needs a "DJ intoxication" knob, going from "sober" to "shitfaced"

I guess there's a market for both kinds of DJ and a scale in between. And I don't think staring at a laptop screen should be the problem it is - there are enough innovative controllers out there which would mean you'd never have to look at the screen, certainly not touch a fucking mouse, and yet so many DJs do just stand fairly motionless squinting at the screen, cos if they bang their heads they won't be able to read it!

Re: Re: Re: Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?

quote:

Originally posted by Stu Cox I guess you could manually roughen up a synced mix with the right tools - Traktor needs a "DJ intoxication" knob, going from "sober" to "shitfaced"

That is savage! hahahahaha... They should make it an easter egg in the program, or whatever you call those hidden tweaks that programmers include. A blurry screen an offbeat sync button...

Re: Re: Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?

quote:

Originally posted by DisposableYouth Why do you even have to beatmatch it yourself? [/controversial statement] If beat syncing software had been invented in the 70s, people would think you're mad trying to manually sync 2 tunes now. It's only seen as it is because historically that's how it had to be done.

You can say that about just about anything. I'm going to go with furniture. Chairs, dressers, cabinets, etc. where all hand-crafted out of necessity centuries ago. Now we have manufacturing to do it for us. However, hand-crafted is still around and is typically seen as higher quality and more expensive. There is a greater level of detail that comes out when something is hand-crafted as opposed to manufactured. Sometimes it is only noticable to the owner though - but it still matters to them. It may be intangible in that respect. And I can tell you that most people do not see someone who hand-crafts furniture as crazy for doing it when it could be done easier; they are usually seen as a skilled craftsman and treated with respect for that skill.

In the end, does it matter though? I can't say. I will tell you that I play exlusively vinyl (simply because it is what I enjoy) and I have Ikea furniture (and my Dad and Grandfather are both skilled craftsmen).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WHYiV5z3FT4

because vinyl is tangible. you can literally hold your favorite track in your hands and because vinyl had been dominant "back in the old days when EDM was good" so here you have simple associative and emotional grounds

i had SSL and beatport mp3s and i gave it up a couple of years ago to go pure vinyl. even though i don't have much records, they can still bring joy as they are and in the process of their picking, buying, collecting, stacking etc. it doesn't give you more or less creativity as a DJ, it's just personal

quote:

Originally posted by boris_the_bear because vinyl is tangible. you can literally hold your favorite track in your hands and because vinyl had been dominant "back in the old days when EDM was good" so here you have simple associative and emotional grounds i had SSL and beatport mp3s and i gave it up a couple of years ago to go pure vinyl. even though i don't have much records, they can still bring joy as they are and in the process of their picking, buying, collecting, stacking etc. it doesn't give you more or less creativity as a DJ, it's just personal

So what do you do if there's an absolutely amazing track that you want to get and play, but alas...it's only available digitally?

quote:

Originally posted by woscar So what do you do if there's an absolutely amazing track that you want to get and play, but alas...it's only available digitally?

i cry and i save money on a pair of CDJs. thank god, most of my favorite tracks have come out on vinyl (2000-2004)

quote:

Originally posted by woscar So what do you do if there's an absolutely amazing track that you want to get and play, but alas...it's only available digitally?

Such a thing has never happened to me so far. But then again I'll accept a CD if vinyl is not available.

i think it's more about the vinyl representing a certain period in electronic music, less about the medium itself. a nostalgia thing.

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly End of the day, it's all about track selection these days. No one cares how you're putting it together any more. 90% of the crowd don't give a rats ass if you're using vinyl, cd's, DVS, or a laptop. They want good music that's it. 8% care about the equipment and 2% are angry at you for not using vinyl.

I totally agree, i've never been in a club and seen people even discussing the fact that the dj is using CDJ's, Traktor, Ableton or vinyl. All people want is to enjoy themselves and its up to the dj to ensure this is the case no matter what medium they use.

On a personal note i've been mixing for 8 years and started out using vinyl (still have my collection and my 1210's). Then when the CDJ 1000mk3's came out, i got them and couldn't believe how easy it was to beatmatch with them. I've now sold them and use Ableton and i don't beatmatch at all. Do i care? NOT ONE BIT!!!

quote:

Originally posted by epdarks i think it's more about the vinyl representing a certain period in electronic music, less about the medium itself. a nostalgia thing.

Not trying to be argumentative, but out of curiosity what makes you say that?

I'd say quite a number of the vinyl purists out there, as a primary argument, would say it's the sound, warmth and physical feel that cannot be reproduced rather than some symbolic representation of "what once was".

At the end of the day, drunk people want to get loose and dance to good music. Symbology and philosophy are reserved for the personal experience of the DJ himself.

quote:

Originally posted by Forbes I totally agree, i've never been in a club and seen people even discussing the fact that the dj is using CDJ's, Traktor, Ableton or vinyl. All people want is to enjoy themselves and its up to the dj to ensure this is the case no matter what medium they use. On a personal note i've been mixing for 8 years and started out using vinyl (still have my collection and my 1210's). Then when the CDJ 1000mk3's came out, i got them and couldn't believe how easy it was to beatmatch with them. I've now sold them and use Ableton and i don't beatmatch at all. Do i care? NOT ONE BIT!!!

+1 on all points

i personally enjoy using vinyl more.

it's more managable, and more intimate for me.

say you would spend $50 at a record store. you come back home w/6-7 records. if you only like one cut on each record, then you only have to get to know 6-7 songs.

here is where i screwed up when i went digital, and start using cd's.
this where my disgust w/digital began too...

those same $50 can get you atleast 25 mp3's from beatport.
now you have to familiarize yourself w/atleast 25 songs. (i was dropping between $100-$250 per beatport binge. big mistake... i should have paced myself)

so now i'm sitting on this stack of stuff on my HD, that i really don't have the time to really get into. i know what it is, but i don't know any of this stuff by heart like i did w/my vinyl.
-this made the music to loose value to me.

the cd players covered that up for a long time, by allowing my to cheat myself out of learning my music by simply using the track time elapsed/remaining button. why do i have to learn my songs when all i have to do is wait till there's about one minute left. then wait for the phrases to match up, and start bringing in the next song?
-further reducing the value of music.

probably the thing that bugged me the most about dj'ing w/cd's is that amount of time i have to spend naming/renaming tracks, and the organization of all this stuff. i have so many cd's now, i don't know what to do! and it's all a mess! none of it has cover art, like a record... i have no way to easily pick stuff out... i have to sift thru the cd book, and look at every single cd...

man, if you're looking for a song on maxi records for instance... you don't need to waste time looking each record that has a black sleeve, or a white sleeve... maxi's cover art is very distinct, and easy to spot.

can't needle drop cd's, and my dnd-4500 is pretty slow at FF'ing, RW'ing thru songs compared to other cd players.

to make a long story short... when my komplete 6 upgrade came, i decided i was going to reformat my HD. at this point i decided to gamble with traktor (my computer has always been moody, which is why i never made the jump to SSL or traktor)

now i have the best of both worlds... i can spin the stuff of my computer using my m5g's. no more burning CDs! i'm super happy. no hiccups, not problems... nothing. it takes a little getting used to. now i really have to learn my music again... because the computer is on the other side of the room, and out of my line of sight. looking at the traktor vinyl, you can't tell where are the break downs... it's harder to tell how deep into the song you are, or how much time is really left before the song finishes like you can w/regular vinyl. since the computer is out of sight, i can't cheat either like i used to w/my cd player. i love being able to needle drop again... no more FF'ing thru songs. :) :) :)

when i'm at a party, it's a little disappointing for me to see a dj using anything other than vinyl. there are times i want to go up to the booth to see if i can make out the logo on the record, or sleeve so i can try to get a copy myself. aside from that, i don't care about how they rock it, as long as they do.

quote:

Originally posted by sr126 when i'm at a party, it's a little disappointing for me to see a dj using anything other than vinyl. there are times i want to go up to the booth to see if i can make out the logo on the record, or sleeve so i can try to get a copy myself.

i just ask, usually i get an answer unless it's something unreleased they can't give out

works the same for me, i usually give out the track names of songs i play if someone asks, by the time they get it, i've already moved on to newer stuff

Re: Re: Re: Why do some DJ's hate everything but vinyl?

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Can't really compare that because computers do a lot of things better and faster than we can, which is not analogous to the Vinyl/dgital debate (the quality is lower and the task is essentially the same etc.)

LOL. I wasn't serious. Oh, the internet - where you can't always detect tone, inflection, and sarcasm.

Alot of audio purist prefer vinyl. When you encode a song digitally (such as in a CD) you loose a little bit of the body of the song. Where as a vinyl record still has that depth to it.

Other than the sound its pretty much just for show/preference now a days with vinyl. With all you can do digitally or even through Serato/Traktor (sorry if i mispelled it) it dosent make sense just to use purely vinyl like back in the days.

quote:

Originally posted by Imagin Alot of audio purist prefer vinyl. When you encode a song digitally (such as in a CD) you loose a little bit of the body of the song. Where as a vinyl record still has that depth to it. Other than the sound its pretty much just for show/preference now a days with vinyl. With all you can do digitally or even through Serato/Traktor (sorry if i mispelled it) it dosent make sense just to use purely vinyl like back in the days.

It does to me. I have chosen the vinyl path because of the complication with digital sets as mention on the post above. Keeping track of the tune, knowing your choons, picking them from a 300 gig library...

I'm just not into it anymore. As for traktor scratch or serato? I wont use it and i am selling mine at the moment.

It's all about preference. I don't care what you have, just as long as you're rocking the crowd with great choons.

quote:

Originally posted by knowhope Basically what the "Old DJs" are trying to yell out is the hard work they had when they were digging through crates and crates of vinyl for that one little gem. These vinyl weren't cheap, you had to earn them with hard work, same goes for turntables and a mixer. In the old days, to be a DJ requires talent and craftmanship. Now we have 18 year old coming in with their digital gear and screwing up the experienced and older DJs by charging half of what the "Old DJs" used to charge. You see little 12 year old kids buying Xone 4D, Xponents, VCI and buying music with the side of pirating them. They also have contemp towards their equipment and want more. Creating most of the people DJing "Gear Whores". Getting more and more gear and they also lean towards the digital side and never appreciate the music. They can have a few tens of thousands in their computer library, but man they still want more. While vinyl purist like I have only a few hundreds of track that i love and cherish. I've got nothing against digitalist since i have friends going that route. This is only my opinion and i am not lashing out on the new wave of DJs blooming out. That's my 2 cent right there.

I agree with all of this. music has no worth anymore, and not just dance music. the record producers, promoters, labels, DJs etc know a release is only going to last a few weeks so that's all the development that goes in.

however, at least as far as hardware goes, I do feel that software like Serato has really bridged the gap between the old and the new. nothing wrong with taking advantage of new technology that will help you do your job better... I know weddings DJs that love Serato

well what i like about cdjs and even more ableton, traktor and the whole digital7laptop dj-era is that finaly djs manage to dj but the feeling of vinyl (for the dj i mean, the crows shouldnt care) is just heaven if you know how to mix right. i love it soooo much. and i can do it while wasted drunk, no problem. i dont even dare touch a laptop after a few drinks. and i dont want too either, reminds me of work. dont think ill ever dj again really after the death of vinyl.

Does anyone else tire of the "music has lost it's value because there's more of it for cheaper" argument that inevitably shows up when threads like these surface every 2 months?

You still have to "dig through crates" albeit digital ones, and you can still end up finding that one "gem." Granted, there is much more material to sift through, but for a truly dedicated person who wants to spend the time to find it, that opportunity is still there. If anything, the gems are harder to find now that there are even more layers of crap covering them, thus making them more valuable in the eyes of those that base the quality of their music solely on how much they paid for it and how hard it was to find.

Don't blame the medium to cover the fact that you're settling for shit music just because it's available with the click of a button. Good music is still being made, and will continue to be made regardless of what medium is en vogue.

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.