TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Production Studio
-- Is the subtractive soft synth market oversaturated?
Pages (2): « 1 [2]

I agree with the fact that Nexus is very expensive, which really supports my thoughts on this - why hasn't someone else produced a similar "trance-in-a-box" instrument, but for less $$$. Spectrasonics is actually a great example of a company that could do this because Eric Persings is a leader in sample-based instruments. They could probably put together a similar EDM-targeted rompler that blows Nexus away, and at a fraction of the cost. And, yes, I definitely agree that Omnisphere blows Nexus away, but it's a different beast than Nexus is and is not targeted specifically at the EDM market.

integrity ?

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV integrity ?

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Atmosphere anyone?

atmosphere definitely wasn't made for trance. And pads are generic. Leads are very genre specific.

Anyways the problem with Nexus is that it is completely redundant. Every sound is already a cliche and unless you are selling a product to amateurs ( who probably will steal it first), there isnt much point. The spectrasonic products have a long shelf life because it isn't a typical preset rompler designed for a specific genre.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV atmosphere definitely wasn't made for trance. And pads are generic. Leads are very genre specific. Anyways the problem with Nexus is that it is completely redundant. Every sound is already a cliche and unless you are selling a product to amateurs ( who probably will steal it first), there isnt much point. The spectrasonic products have a long shelf life because it isn't a typical preset rompler designed for a specific genre.

Good argument. I tend to agree completely.

I think what's happening with the soft synth market generally, is that theres a splintering between extremely complex programmable synths like massive, absynth, zebra, etc, and the simpler single purpose and rompler segment. This should stand out as a clear contrast to several years ago when there was only a general purpose market and then a second market for patches for those synths.

Now we're seeing less patch banks, but more actual synths. I guess sound designers realised that people were willing to pay more for some generic sounding oscillators which are well programmed than they were for some good sounds which were programmed for good oscillators.

Saturated with VA synths? Yes.
Saturated with GOOD VA synths? No.
As long as these is room for improovement, I will gladly try anything new that comes along

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV atmosphere definitely wasn't made for trance. And pads are generic. Leads are very genre specific.

My point was that romplers aren't "below" Spectrasonics - and that's not a knock against them, just an observation. At any rate, I probably should've known better than to obscure my own point by using Spectrasonics as an example.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV Anyways the problem with Nexus is that it is completely redundant. Every sound is already a cliche and unless you are selling a product to amateurs ( who probably will steal it first), there isnt much point. The spectrasonic products have a long shelf life because it isn't a typical preset rompler designed for a specific genre.

Somewhat agreed, although there's no denying that, despite the illegal downloads, Nexus has been very successful and has made Manuel et al. a boatload of cash. They can charge what they want because of supply/demand - no one else is competing with them and whether or not a guy like you (I'm pretty sure you don't own it, nor are you their target market) thinks it's cliche or crap is beside the point - many people love it and are obviously willing to pay for it.

[/horse beaten]

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler I've making patches since I got my Moog Rogue a long time ago and love the process, but I think we might see some specialist synths in the same way Roland released the TB3O3 Bass module.

The success of the TB303 was not the result of producers using the unit for its intended purpose but rather by producers who used it in ways that it was never intended to be used. Had the TB303 been used strictly as a "bass-accompaniment" synth for bands, as was it's intent, the unit would have undoubtedly far less notoriety and prestige than it has today.

In fact, this type of approach is exactly the type of creativity that can inspire original sounding works as was evidenced by the first producers who used the 303 in a dance context. I would encourage young producers to use their tools in ways that they were never intended to be used because its that spirit of creativity and experimentation that can lead to developing a "unique" sound and push the boundaries of dance music exactly as was done back in the 80's with the 303 unit.

quote:

Originally posted by Eric J The success of the TB303 was not the result of producers using the unit for its intended purpose but rather by producers who used it in ways that it was never intended to be used. Had the TB303 been used strictly as a "bass-accompaniment" synth for bands, as was it's intent, the unit would have undoubtedly far less notoriety and prestige than it has today.

The TB-303 is regarded as a flop for what it was designed for. Had it not been so good at creating acid lines (a coincidence) it would've sank into obscurity.

quote:

Originally posted by Cryogen The TB-303 is regarded as a flop for what it was designed for. Had it not been so good at creating acid lines (a coincidence) it would've sank into obscurity.

My point exactly.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Now we're seeing less patch banks, but more actual synths.

I've been noticing just the opposite - it seems like I've gotten a lot more free banks for my synths this year than the last 5 years or so combined. I've also been a lot busier beta-testing sound banks this year, but less busy beta-testing synths and only a few new synths come to mind (DCam, Largo, ACE). It also seems like the boom of freebie synths has been greatly attenuated.

The current trend seems to be in updating existing products, rather than releasing new ones, e.g.,:

Gladiator > Gladiator 2
Zebra > Zebra 2.x
Nexus > Nexus2
Absynth 4 > Absynth 5
etc.

There's also a very well-substantiated rumor going around that reFX is going to release Vanguard 2 very soon - apparently, it was originally slated for this month, but will probably not be released until early next year. Mike's very own reply to the question of an updated version on the reFX forums were "Wait and you shall receive". I also have it from a very reliable source that another well-known synth in EDM circles will be getting a major "Version 2" update early next year.

my opinion regarding the evolution of sound design tends to gravitate around the use of effects on traditional synthesis. I find combining new effects with traditional synth sounds can result in more interesting sounds.

quote:

Originally posted by RichieV my opinion regarding the evolution of sound design tends to gravitate around the use of effects on traditional synthesis. I find combining new effects with traditional synth sounds can result in more interesting sounds.

That's a very good point - it seems like adding new/improved effects is another common theme amongst the new updates.

quote:

Originally posted by LfmC Saturated with VA synths? Yes. Saturated with GOOD VA synths? No.

A few people have said this - frankly, I'm not seeing it. I've looked at so many different subtractive synths and they're basically all adequate and all almost the same.

I think that the real reason so many people say that these soft synths aren't very good is simply that the patches aren't very good, or that there aren't enough of them. Which leads us to this point:

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik I've been noticing just the opposite - it seems like I've gotten a lot more free banks for my synths this year than the last 5 years or so combined.

I've noticed this as well, to an extent, although I still think it's nowhere near enough. I hope the trend continues because I'd much, much rather have 10 great patch banks for 1 subtractive soft synth than 10 different synths with generic libraries that all sound basically the same. I actually prefer to use samples sometimes because of the TLC that goes into those, in contrast to the half-baked effort that usually goes into default patches.

I say put the eggheads to work creating new and original patches instead of new generic synths. Price them reasonably and I think they'd attract a much larger customer base (real customers, not mass piracy).

quote:

Originally posted by DigiNut A few people have said this - frankly, I'm not seeing it. I've looked at so many different subtractive synths and they're basically all adequate and all almost the same. I think that the real reason so many people say that these soft synths aren't very good is simply that the patches aren't very good, or that there aren't enough of them

I disagree. At least as far as I'm concerned, I make my own sounds from scratch, so presets mean nothing to me. Unfortunately, real synth tweakers are a dying breed...
What I do see is an overflow of a lot of generic sounding synths which have zero character wrapped in a pretty interface. And the fact 95% of synthedit and synthmaker plugins are utter crap doesn't help either, especially since they make up a huge part of the overall selection.

For example, as anyone who own a Virus Ti and who is actually good at programming a synth can tell you: It's just amazing how 80% of the tweaks you make on it just sound good. It's almost impossible to make it sound bad. And since the Ti is basically a VST in a box, it begs the question: Why are there so few VST's which give such good results? Why is it that so many VST's need painstaking tweaks and tons of effects to make them sound just ok?

I'm not saying there are no VST's who have this kind of quality. But there are still quite rare IMO.

Just my 2c..

also worth mentioning that the virus B has been ported so it isn't a question of dsp.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik There's also a very well-substantiated rumor going around that reFX is going to release Vanguard 2 very soon - apparently, it was originally slated for this month, but will probably not be released until early next year. Mike's very own reply to the question of an updated version on the reFX forums were "Wait and you shall receive". I also have it from a very reliable source that another well-known synth in EDM circles will be getting a major "Version 2" update early next year.

Intresting news about vanguard 2

So can you give us a clue about the other synth which will be getting a version two upgrade?

I hope it's V Station or Z3ta

quote:

Originally posted by Jason_R So can you give us a clue about the other synth which will be getting a version two upgrade? I hope it's V Station or Z3ta

Sorry, I've probably said too much already, but I will say that you might be disappointed.

Speaking of rumors and Z3TA, about a year-and-a-half ago Cakewalk (who now owns RGC:Audio and employs Ren� Ceballos [Z3TA developer] as its primary synth designer) announced on their forums that they would be introducing a new "super synth", but it never materialized and Cakewalk hasn't said much about it since. Some people think that Beatscape, which was developed by Ren� and added to Sonar in version 7, is the super synth, but Beatscape is neither a synth nor do many people consider it "super" (it actually kinda sucks IMO). So, who knows, we may still see this super synth at some point and it will likely be primarily a Ren� product. My guess is that, if and when that happens, it will be much more than "Z3TA II".

I believe the 'other' updated synth for early next year will be from a dev who is well known for saying nothing about updates.

That's what MY sources tell me anyway

I have a feeling that if a Zeta 2 came out or something similar, we'd all jump on it. At least to try it.

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz I have a feeling that if a Zeta 2 came out or something similar, we'd all jump on it. At least to try it.

Probably.. but what's wrong with that?

Z3ta is one of the jewels of the VST world. Maybe a bit overused, but still a good all around VA. There are worst things than getting v2... like getting Sonic Timeworks SH-1001 v2
Anyone remember that train wreck?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.