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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Most of my tracks are made out of a few chords.

+1

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik The best producers, musicians, and composers will consistently put out good work and get the most out of their tools, the fakers usually don't.

+1 Dave

quote:

Originally posted by StephenWiley Just trying to take the attention away from Catanya. Last thing we need is people thinking they can make a track out of a few chords.

Don't now what is wrong with using existing tool/programs to help you cut production time. I'm not a programmer but I'm using a lot of different programs to help me design my product, I'm not car designer but I can be a good driver, I didn't design photo camera but I can be a great photographer/artist, I didn't design tennis racket but I can be number 1 in the world, I didn't .......... .

So, now you can see that I'm going to use whatever tool is available to let me transfer my thoughts, my idea, my imagination to the form that other people will understand and appreciate that effort.

Cheers

People are all in this for different reasons. It's already been proven that simple CAN work and does for many people (i.e. Prydz).

As long as it sounds good do it. I am willing to bet Cryo is one of the most knowledgeable producers on this forum. That doesn't make his music better than anyone elses.

Non industry folk not only are going to be clueless about what they're hearing; but on top of that only care that it sounds good. To me that is all that matters because unlike a lot of the other clowns these days; I am focusing on the fan/consumer; not djs.

So if Catanya helps newbs put out products above their level of expertise and it sounds good why would you or anyone else be upset at that?

you just don't understand because you likely do not have catanya. it basically has 1200 midi arp's built in and you can record them as MIDI in your DAW. There are melodies, arps, R&B stuff that sounds good at high BPM's, etc.

It's a great step sequencer, but it's also a "MIDI Factory" and I can see a lot of people using it for that.

Literally, you hold down ACE for four bars and you can just start scrolling through different midi patterns and hearing them in real time. Once you're happy, you pick it and move on to the next instrument and find a pattern you're comfortable with there. Again, all you gotta do is copy the chord to the next channel, throw on your vst, and start scrolling through the patterns. Again and again and again. It also has a randomized groove function, so you can kinda like a pattern and then sit there and push the random groove button 20 times till you hear what you like.

I'm sorry but to me that is not being an artist. There is nothing artistic about what I wrote above. Just my opinion.


And finally as Cryo said, these programs (there are more like it that do so much work for you such as Improvisator) won't take you far. You're not going to get top shelf results and you will be absolutely lost if you were to ever walk into a studio with other producers or do a collab etc. So really this thing is actually detrimental if you're using it for the wrong reasons.....but we live in a microwave world (want it now now now now) so I'm sure everybody will be using Catanya soon as its becoming more and more talked about. Soon we'll be recognizing patterns in songs like we do Virus' in tracks. No doubt the guy who made Catanya will sell more sequence banks for $$$$$. Sorry but I think it's lame that one can hold down ACE and scroll through pre-made sequences until they hear a pattern they want.

I would honestly recommend Thesys over Catanya but it does cost more.

I kinda disagree that they are two completely different things Cryo. Thesys has good step sequencing ability but arguably not as good as Catanya (from a pure sequencing standpoint). Thesys is more flexible in my opinion because you have more parameters to control like the Gate.

I found I could generate a better groove in Thesys, but I got more syncopation out of Catanya and I can pump out sequences much quicker. It really comes down to a preference thing. Do the demo's (not sure if Catanya has one) and then decide for yourself. Thesys and Catanya are without question "leaders of the pack" when it comes to advanced step sequencing.

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I would honestly recommend Thesys over Catanya

So would I, generally speaking, but not for the OP's stated need. Catanya will do exactly what he wants (i.e., allow him to create his own arp patterns and export the notes to his piano roll). Thesys will not.

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley I kinda disagree that they are two completely different things Cryo.

Catanya is an arpeggiator, Thesys is a step sequencer. They're not the same thing. Try playing an Amin chord into Catanya and you'll hear an arpeggiated version of an Amin chord coming out the other end. Try playing an Amin chord into Theysis and you'll get whatever note intervals are programmed into the step sequencer coming out the other end for every note in your Amin chord - usually a jumbled harmonic mess and, unless the sequence is programmed only using root notes and octaves, it won't be an arpeggiation of the Amin chord.

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Thesys has good step sequencing ability but arguably not as good as Catanya (from a pure sequencing standpoint).

You've got that backwards. Catanya isn't really a step sequencer by normal conventions - it's just an arp. Thesys has much better step sequencing capabilities.

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Thesys is more flexible in my opinion because you have more parameters to control...

Absolutely - no argument here. But, if the task requires an arp rather than a step sequencer, Catanya is the tool.

Arpache

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley you just don't understand because you likely do not have catanya. it basically has 1200 midi arp's built in and you can record them as MIDI in your DAW. There are melodies, arps, R&B stuff that sounds good at high BPM's, etc. It's a great step sequencer, but it's also a "MIDI Factory" and I can see a lot of people using it for that. Literally, you hold down ACE for four bars and you can just start scrolling through different midi patterns and hearing them in real time. Once you're happy, you pick it and move on to the next instrument and find a pattern you're comfortable with there. Again, all you gotta do is copy the chord to the next channel, throw on your vst, and start scrolling through the patterns. Again and again and again. It also has a randomized groove function, so you can kinda like a pattern and then sit there and push the random groove button 20 times till you hear what you like. I'm sorry but to me that is not being an artist. There is nothing artistic about what I wrote above. Just my opinion.

First of all I do own Catanya. Second of all you are just upset because others won't have to spend as much time as you did to get to the same place. This is 2010 get used to it. Third I know exactly what Catanya can do. That doesn't mean I use all of it's features. If you do I don't really care though. I don't have an ego that people need to do things certain ways. If I enjoy something that's all that matters. Companies are focusing on creating things that make jobs easier. Technology is and always will continue to advance. It's just like the muppets who are stuck on vinyl and won't change with the times because it's the way of the past and they invested so much time into it.

I don't really understand why people get so upset about shit like this. If you like making music then make it. EDM is fucking simple. I've taken no classes, have asked very few questions and have read a few articles and the rest has all been a year and a half of trial and error and learning what works and doesn't work to gain my music theory knowledge. How is Catanya different than midi packs which are all over the place these days? Or an engineer? It's not. You just get upset about this shit because you feel accomplishment from this; but in reality, it's not much of an accomplishment. People will take advantage of new technology and the true artists will use it in much more advanced ways. What don't you understand about that. If it's not Catanya it will always be something else. We live in the technological age and infinite products will continue to come out to make things easier because that's what people are asking for.

Are you saying you'd like to go back to the 90s where YOU WOULDNT EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY OR MEANS TO PRODUCE? Sure there was less crap out then but I still to this day am a believer that there is more GOOD music now than there was back then. People are just lazy.

I have no problem with you and you're a good guy and doing some good things for edm but your viewpoints are twisted when it comes to stuff like this. You're very selfish like you deserve attention for your work when you're doing the exact same things as the people you're clowning on!

It always will be the case that technology will improve; newbs will put out crap that shouldn't be released and the people who actually should be producing will continue to put out products at a high level while implementing more and more new technology; making their works better and better over time. You're a producer; not a rocket scientist. What we do is not hard and technology will only continue to make it easier. I don't really care if someone uses the same chords I would for any given song, if it sounds good it IS good.

With Z3ta, you can convert 1-bar MIDI files to Z3ta arpeggio files.

Here's how:

quote:

Originally posted by Z3ta User Manual How to create arpeggio files (.cmp) for z3ta+ --------------------------------------------- 1- Create a 1-bar, 4/4 type-0 MIDI file with your arpeggio (check input.mid as sample). 2- Name it 'input.mid' and put it in -same folder- than mid2cmp.exe 3- Run mid2cmp.exe. This will create a file called 'arp000.cmp' in the same folder. 4- Rename it as next available arpeggio slot (ie 'arp052.cmp'). 5- Try it in z3ta+. It's not needed to restart z3ta+ to re-test it, just reselect it. The arpeggio will play: 1- Note On, Note Off 2- Velocity (z3ta+ patch should take care of -what- velocity does). 3- Pitch Bend (z3ta+ patch should set the pitch bend range to required and any extra assignment of it). 4- Polyphonic aftertouch. mid2cmp will filter all other events in the .mid file (metaevents, aftertouch, controllers, etc.) Enjoy!

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 First of all I do own Catanya. Second of all you are just upset because others won't have to spend as much time as you did to get to the same place. This is 2010 get used to it. Third I know exactly what Catanya can do. That doesn't mean I use all of it's features. If you do I don't really care though. I don't have an ego that people need to do things certain ways. If I enjoy something that's all that matters. Companies are focusing on creating things that make jobs easier. Technology is and always will continue to advance. It's just like the muppets who are stuck on vinyl and won't change with the times because it's the way of the past and they invested so much time into it. I don't really understand why people get so upset about shit like this. If you like making music then make it. EDM is fucking simple. I've taken no classes, have asked very few questions and have read a few articles and the rest has all been a year and a half of trial and error and learning what works and doesn't work to gain my music theory knowledge. How is Catanya different than midi packs which are all over the place these days? Or an engineer? It's not. You just get upset about this shit because you feel accomplishment from this; but in reality, it's not much of an accomplishment. People will take advantage of new technology and the true artists will use it in much more advanced ways. What don't you understand about that. If it's not Catanya it will always be something else. We live in the technological age and infinite products will continue to come out to make things easier because that's what people are asking for. Are you saying you'd like to go back to the 90s where YOU WOULDNT EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY OR MEANS TO PRODUCE? Sure there was less crap out then but I still to this day am a believer that there is more GOOD music now than there was back then. People are just lazy. I have no problem with you and you're a good guy and doing some good things for edm but your viewpoints are twisted when it comes to stuff like this. You're very selfish like you deserve attention for your work when you're doing the exact same things as the people you're clowning on! It always will be the case that technology will improve; newbs will put out crap that shouldn't be released and the people who actually should be producing will continue to put out products at a high level while implementing more and more new technology; making their works better and better over time. You're a producer; not a rocket scientist. What we do is not hard and technology will only continue to make it easier. I don't really care if someone uses the same chords I would for any given song, if it sounds good it IS good.

^ This x1.000

It's always been this way. Technology advances and people complain, cause theres more power to the people.

In the end it drives us forward altogether. Its the evolution...

The human ego. I felt it in my stomach myself when I first saw this..

I suppose a tool like this might be useful for people that lack inspiration . I think tools like this are great for amateurs to learn something new until they become mature song writers and don't need a midi generator to inspire ideas they can't seed in their own head.

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 First of all I do own Catanya. Second of all you are just upset because others won't have to spend as much time as you did to get to the same place. This is 2010 get used to it. Third I know exactly what Catanya can do. That doesn't mean I use all of it's features. If you do I don't really care though. I don't have an ego that people need to do things certain ways. If I enjoy something that's all that matters. Companies are focusing on creating things that make jobs easier. Technology is and always will continue to advance. It's just like the muppets who are stuck on vinyl and won't change with the times because it's the way of the past and they invested so much time into it. I don't really understand why people get so upset about shit like this. If you like making music then make it. EDM is fucking simple. I've taken no classes, have asked very few questions and have read a few articles and the rest has all been a year and a half of trial and error and learning what works and doesn't work to gain my music theory knowledge. How is Catanya different than midi packs which are all over the place these days? Or an engineer? It's not. You just get upset about this shit because you feel accomplishment from this; but in reality, it's not much of an accomplishment. People will take advantage of new technology and the true artists will use it in much more advanced ways. What don't you understand about that. If it's not Catanya it will always be something else. We live in the technological age and infinite products will continue to come out to make things easier because that's what people are asking for. Are you saying you'd like to go back to the 90s where YOU WOULDNT EVEN HAVE THE ABILITY OR MEANS TO PRODUCE? Sure there was less crap out then but I still to this day am a believer that there is more GOOD music now than there was back then. People are just lazy. I have no problem with you and you're a good guy and doing some good things for edm but your viewpoints are twisted when it comes to stuff like this. You're very selfish like you deserve attention for your work when you're doing the exact same things as the people you're clowning on! It always will be the case that technology will improve; newbs will put out crap that shouldn't be released and the people who actually should be producing will continue to put out products at a high level while implementing more and more new technology; making their works better and better over time. You're a producer; not a rocket scientist. What we do is not hard and technology will only continue to make it easier. I don't really care if someone uses the same chords I would for any given song, if it sounds good it IS good.

Simmer down cowboy. I think you need to stop for a second and remember who paid money for Catanya and who sent you Catanya, for free. That is assuming you're AOL AIM is in fact michaelfitterer6. (You're welcome by the way) If not that is not your AOL AIM, then my apologies, but I suspect it is.

I'm not going to bother responding to various questions you asked. They're ridiculous and honestly make me laugh. You've taken the word "misconstrued" directly from the dictionary and re-defined it. Merriam-Webster owes you some coin for that one.

This is not meant to be a derogatory question, but how old are you? You seem to have a severe lack of courtesy (not just in this thread) as well as a very ignorant idea as to what music should be. (ie. You don't know a flip about EDM except for what has happened over possibly the last 5 years) - Using your logic, if you can sit back and watch a computer make a track for you then it's ok because it's technology. Perhaps Merriam-Webster can teach you about arts in exchange for your monumental thesis on misconstruing things.

You speak of EDM as if you got it going on and seem to imply that I don't, which is why I feel the way I do. Again, I laugh. I'd love to hear your productions. If you don't want to buy mine you can grab Oakenfold's Perfecto on Tour sets for free and listen to not only my music but other tracks from my label in the very same sets.

You say, "EDM is fucking simple"

Fair enough. I won't argue that one bit, but it does raise my expectations of your productions and makes me even more eager to hear them. I'll have an ear out for those Catanya MIDI-presets

i feel like this thread is missing Robby.

quote:

Originally posted by d_Verge With Z3ta, you can convert 1-bar MIDI files to Z3ta arpeggio files. Here's how:

sweet, will try this out, thanks!!!

You have me confused with someone else although that is my aim..

From: [email protected][/email] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Branislav Dimos - 7Aliens
Sent: Sunday, November 29, 2009 10:27 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Re: Notification of payment received



Hi Michael

Thank you for your purchase. You can find Catanya in the attachment and your serial key below. If you have any further questions do not hesitate to contact us. Enjoy Catanya.

Best Regards,

Branislav Dimos
7Aliens

Serial Key:
698764310845320974431984431086532097643198653209................





2009/11/30 [email protected][/email]



Error! Filename not specified.


Nov 29, 2009 21:54:00 PST
Transaction ID: 54569841XU025843H

Hello Branislav Dimos,

You received a payment of �45,00 EUR from Michael Fitterer ([email protected])
Thanks for using PayPal. You can now ship any items. To see all the transaction details, log in to your PayPal account.

It may take a few moments for this transaction to appear in your account.

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7Aliens Catanya


45,00 EUR


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�45,00 EUR

Payment sent to [email][email protected]

quote:

Originally posted by DjStephenWiley Simmer down cowboy. I think you need to stop for a second and remember who paid money for Catanya and who sent you Catanya, for free. That is assuming you're AOL AIM is in fact michaelfitterer6. (You're welcome by the way) If not that is not your AOL AIM, then my apologies, but I suspect it is.

See above.

quote:

This is not meant to be a derogatory question, but how old are you? You seem to have a severe lack of courtesy (not just in this thread) as well as a very ignorant idea as to what music should be. (ie. You don't know a flip about EDM except for what has happened over possibly the last 5 years) - Using your logic, if you can sit back and watch a computer make a track for you then it's ok because it's technology. Perhaps Merriam-Webster can teach you about arts in exchange for your monumental thesis on misconstruing things.

You know how old I am and as far as referencing my quotes on technology; you don't have to use it, but it is there for you to take advantage of. I will do anything and everything to make any finished product (not just music) the best it can be. I have no ego or qualms about being lesser than someone else because i'm in this for myself and to prove a point. The product is all that matters. Giving the people who listen to the music something to enjoy is all I care about. Not the industry, not the djs, and not any labels. In fact it's possible that none of my solo productions will ever be released on another label. The system as is right now is broken and just like the technology; it's time for a change!

quote:

You speak of EDM as if you got it going on and seem to imply that I don't, which is why I feel the way I do. Again, I laugh. I'd love to hear your productions. If you don't want to buy mine you can grab Oakenfold's Perfecto on Tour sets for free and listen to not only my music but other tracks from my label in the very same sets.

I actually like your productions so I don't know wtf you're going on about! Yes I'm a perfectionist, yes my productions reflect that; but aside from that I think you misunderstood my quotes. I wasn't attacking you or your abilities but your mindset. Trust me I listen to your label releases and you have sent me a few promos; and I would be willing to buy some of them IF they were on beatport. I already spend enough time and money there; I have no interest in spending even more time elsewhere.

quote:

You say, "EDM is fucking simple" Fair enough. I won't argue that one bit, but it does raise my expectations of your productions and makes me even more eager to hear them. I'll have an ear out for those Catanya MIDI-presets

That's great! High expectations is why I do things the way I do. If you make people expect a high level product it forces you to make high level products. I will be releasing several tracks for free here in the next few weeks i'll make sure you get copies

Don't take my words as hating on or attacking you. It's just I see you in music for all the wrong reasons. I just see you showing off gear and bragging about releases or Oakie playing your tracks. That's all awesome but if I already had my foot in the door like that I'd sure as hell be spending even MORE time on my music because you have a great avenue of exposure. THAT IS MY OPINION; NOT NECESSARILY A FACT, so no need to flame me for it. Also I haven't even used Catanya in any of my productions yet; I was just defending new age technology. I typically don't use new instruments or products in my music for 2-3 months before I start using them. Gives me time to master what it can and can't do.

Electronic Dance Music is by far the easiest genre of music to create of them all, we have machines doing the work for us.. and no vocals needed!

quote:

Originally posted by Subtle Electronic Dance Music is by far the easiest genre of music to create of them all, we have machines doing the work for us.. and no vocals needed!

I hear where you're going with that, but machines do nothing without a human behind them.

I'd remove the emails from your post Mfitterer. Because of spam and such

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller I'd remove the emails from your post Mfitterer. Because of spam and such

It used to be my primary email but as anyone who has used hotmail knows it only takes time before it becomes unusable. I use it for all my purchases and signing up for sites and such now so fuck it!

And as far as the other statement made about machines not doing anything without a human behind them; totally off. If you put a guitar or any other real instrument in front of me I'd be fucked but I can make good music that people can enjoy because edm is simple enough for ANYONE to master. Just takes time and a studious mind. Just saying!

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 Don't take my words as hating on or attacking you. It's just I see you in music for all the wrong reasons. I just see you showing off gear and bragging about releases or Oakie playing your tracks. That's all awesome but if I already had my foot in the door like that I'd sure as hell be spending even MORE time on my music because you have a great avenue of exposure. THAT IS MY OPINION; NOT NECESSARILY A FACT.

Thanks for the tip. I'll try to remember it and not be so shy when I am with Paul at Rain on the 13th. No, not bragging. Just telling you the truth.

I don't understand where you're coming from when it comes to gear bragging. I have nothing compared to most?

What am I supposed to say about my music? It's good and you should really check it out! - That's what every rehtard says and nobody ever bothers to listen. Tell them somebody important is pounding the F out of it and they'll take notice. Simple as that. You can view me however you like, but, #1. you have no clue who I am or how I operate. Bragging about my gear? where? Bragging about oakey playing my tracks? Sorry if its the truth? I am not saying it in an arrogant manner. I said it because I want to hear what you have to offer since you seem to have a lot of bark and no bite.

You know I was just like you when I started when I was younger and I wish I would have just done what I try to do now and that is keep my mouth shut, carry a big stick, and let your music and others do the talking for you. Unfortunately I had to come in here and set the record straight.

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 It used to be my primary email but as anyone who has used hotmail knows it only takes time before it becomes unusable. I use it for all my purchases and signing up for sites and such now so fuck it!

What about the sender?

quote:

Originally posted by mfitterer1 It used to be my primary email but as anyone who has used hotmail knows it only takes time before it becomes unusable. I use it for all my purchases and signing up for sites and such now so fuck it! And as far as the other statement made about machines not doing anything without a human behind them; totally off. If you put a guitar or any other real instrument in front of me I'd be fucked but I can make good music that people can enjoy because edm is simple enough for ANYONE to master. Just takes time and a studious mind. Just saying!

Disagree.. Not anyone can master EDM.. Although it depends on what you mean by master.. To make EDM is one thing, to be exceptionally good at it is another thing (somebody like Leon Bolier). It's what I think about when you say master atleast. I mean if we're gonna say Michael Jackson didn't have natural talent.. It's just.. not worth discussing ofcourse.. Because he indeed did. It would be plain stupidity and blindness to discuss it. Ofcourse growing up as a member of the Jackson family helps.. But then again Jermaine should have been equally as good right? There is something called natural talent and a musical gene, whether one likes it or not.. There's done dozens of studies on it... And yes I believe in God given gifts.. Heh actually it makes me a little sick just discussing it so I don't know what I'm on about here.. I know it to be so true..

Making edm is simple.. just as playing a guitar is simple.. Making exceptional edm is not, just as being an exceptional guitar player is not. To be an outstanding transmitter of emotions through music demands both natural talent and lots of dedication.

Mozart didn't have talent for making music at all? Neither did Vivaldi? Beethoven? Bach? Schubert? H�ndel? Ofcourse they did..

Einstein didn't have a natural gift in the art of thinking? Yes he did.. There's even been done studies of his well preserved brain lately where they amongst other things discovered unnaturally big neural connectors in central areas for processing of math and physics, and traces of synesthesic couplings. Couple that with an astonishing imagination and your set to become what I call an exceptional physicist. (note: exception(al))

"
Musical Talent: Innate or Learned?
Volume 3 / Issue 1 / Fall 2002

Are children born with an appreciation for music and the ability to demonstrate it? Or do they develop musical ability through early exposure and structured practice? The answer is both, according to Dianna Richardson, graduate of the Juilliard School and the Cleveland Institute of Music. Richardson, who is an artist-in-residence at the Cleveland School of the Arts and a youth instructor at Baldwin-Wallace College, claims that many of her inner-city high school students possess �raw talent.� They have a keen ear for music, can play demonstrated or familiar pieces beautifully, have an extraordinary sense of rhythm, and are well synchronized with their peers when playing their instruments. Most of them, however, lack formal music instruction and cannot read sheet music. In contrast, Richardson�s college students, who have benefited from early structured lessons in reading and understanding music, can play most sheet music with impressive precision but are not as adept at playing together as a group.

The Association for Supervision and Curriculum Development reports that children who are musically gifted show early developmental signs of musical precocity, which may include noticing off-key music, remembering melodies, singing in tune, fondness for playing instruments in preschool, rhythmic ways of moving and speaking, humming to themselves, tapping rhythmically while working, and sensitivity to environmental sounds (waterfalls, rain on the roof, etc.). Researchers recognize such indicators of precocious musical talent as an innate ability to identify pitch (i.e., to imitate pitch with precision), precise rhythmic ability, intense interest in a variety of music, and an ability to learn and express music through rote methods (recognition and imitation). Richardson says that such students in the inner city, where resources may not be readily available, are often identified in religious organizations, where they participate regularly in choirs and are encouraged to express themselves musically.
"

Source: http://www.dukegiftedletter.com/art...o1_article.html

Good post, I disagree as well. My next door neighbour actually is a producer as well and gives recording/mixing classes on a school as well. He's does jingles, news-tunes all types of music but I manage to produce better house/trance music than he does. If dance music really was that easy for everyone, he would have outdone me in no-time. But he doesn't. He does in just about any other genre/field of expertise

I think that we are spending too much time arguing and dragging this issue for too long and not spending enough time do what we love to do - create/produce music.

I said that before - nobody will guaranty you success, nobody will make that process easy for you, there will be no mercy up there, it is very simple - ether you are great/good and the mass will love you or you will do this only for you satisfaction (which is usually the case for some of us).

Doesn�t really matter for me if I will be famous artist/producer or not (don't get me wrong - I will do whatever is necessary to be one), it's just that feeling of complete satisfaction, feeling to be in the right place, doing the thing I love to do - that's what I'm doing that for, nothing less, nothing more just that satisfaction.

I know that all of us have different perspective/view on this, but as long as we are willing to listen, willing to learn and willing to work together, we have much better chance to succeed.

Thanks guys, this is only my 0.02.

Cheers

if edm is so easy to make why is it that it so few good edm tracks lately?

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