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Originally posted by Theresa I don't think kids should be told about 'abstaining'.

By Traditional Chinese Medicine standards, if we want our kids to have a good start at long and healthy lives, we should be advising them to consider abstaining until they're closer to being fully developed - say, somewhere between 18 and 20. If I had known what I do now, I would have held off until at least then, and would not have so indiscriminately fucked my way through my 20s and early 30s.

Of course, this would also involve parents having the patience to teach them that not all gratification need be instantaneous and that there are some things that are best meted out in moderation. And since most parents are barely cognisant of their own overflowing basket of addictions, let alone able to work through them, I'm not holding my breath on it.

There is no room for sex in school. Kids should learn about sex the same way all animals do...instictively.

In some ways even the concept of "childhood" is a luxury of living in high technology nations that can afford not to put kids to work soon after they start walking. Historically, when kids worked right alongside adults, they were treated like them, more or less. Why not make use of our modern privilege by keeping childhood a safe, quiet, and relatively sanitized place? At least until kids start approaching adolescence, when they will have to learn more about responsibility and the dangers of the world.

I am not speaking against sex education, either, but I think this drive that people apparently have to ensure that their kids are cynical unphaseable cool customers like them by age eight or something is unnecessary.

Re: Sex education in schools

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Originally posted by Theresa I was reading the following article and the comments, and thought it would start a very interesting conversation here. So: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...article1542267/ I think this is brilliant. People are absolutely daft if they think that their children don't have access to information, most of which is mis-information. As for the people who yell "that's the parents job blah blah blah", 1. why is it the schools job to teach everything else about the human anatomy, but not the sexual organs? 2. Not all parents are knowledgeable enough to actually teach their children about sexuality (they got worse education than we did), 3. A lot of parents will never speak to their children about sex because it's 'wrong'. Perhaps in your ideal world, parents would bestow all the needed information about sexuality to their children, but the reality is, it doesn't happen. Not to mention that in the cases in which it does happen, mis-information is often re-told, and a lot of the important things are omitted. We teach our children about everything else, but not something as fundamental and basic as sex? Something that everyone but Nou does in their lifetime?! It doesn't make any sense, especially in a time when sexuality is very present in media, and the consequences of ignorance can be dire. I went to a catholic school growing up, and I honestly didn't know a damn thing about the male reproductive system, or even my own until I did my own research in high school. I had my period for probably 3 or 4 years before I actually understood what was happening. Had I not done my own research, I probably wouldn't have ever learned anything about it. I also know that I am far more knowledgeable about it than my mother, so she would have been very little help in teaching me about STD's etc. Personally, I think we need to stop stigmatizing sexuality and just accept it as a normal thing (because it is a fucking normal thing!!) We need to stop shoving our kids heads in the sand and pretending that they are going to be perfect little angels who will never have sex and will never be exposed to information about sex. The sooner, the better too, because kids are coming into contact with this information far sooner than we did as kids. Information is power, and there is nothing harmful in educating our children. It gives them the ability to make smart decision about their sexuality, helps them protect themselves from abuse, promotes healthy sexual lifestyles, and it promotes tolerance of people who are different than you. Edit: c0r version - the article talks about how schools in Ontario, Canada are going to have a mandatory sex ed. curriculum. People are freaking out about it, saying its wrong blah blah blah. I think it's great! What do you think?

You're a fool if you think Sex Ed. is really going to do anything. I'm not against it, and I'm not for it. Personally, I don't care. But I hate this Pollyanna view that any significant change will actually come about because of Sex Ed. in the classroom.

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Originally posted by R.j. You're a fool if you think Sex Ed. is really going to do anything.

Well, when they took it away in Texas, teen pregnancy rates skyrocketed.

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Originally posted by EddieZilker Well, when they took it away in Texas, teen pregnancy rates skyrocketed.

Okay. How long ago was this?

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Originally posted by R.j. You're a fool if you think Sex Ed. is really going to do anything. I'm not against it, and I'm not for it. Personally, I don't care. But I hate this Pollyanna view that any significant change will actually come about because of Sex Ed. in the classroom.

So do you think knowledge per se is useless, or just as it pertains to sex education?

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Originally posted by R.j. Okay. How long ago was this?

A little after Texas got it's first in a succession of Republican Governors. This millennium.

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Originally posted by R.j. You're a fool if you think Sex Ed. is really going to do anything.

Read this:

http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/in...=450&Itemid=336

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Teens who received comprehensive sex education were 60 percent less likely to report becoming pregnant or impregnating someone than those who received no sex education.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...80319151225.htm

I have a bunch of academic sources on this as well, but all of them require access to my University database.

EDIT:

You can read the abstracts from some of them without the access though:

http://www.jahonline.org/article/S1...0426-0/abstract

Science be damned! We all know it's going to turn out children into prostitutes and porn stars if we teach them about sex!

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Originally posted by EddieZilker This millennium.

I like that.

Anyway, I'll agree with you on that end.

But what I won't agree with, however, is that Sex Ed. the miracle cure-all for teen-pregnancy. What I'm more concerned about, however, is the fact that every couple of years it seems as though the youth of this world becomes more and more decadent; and what I feel what Sex Ed. does is stall an inevitable point where the problem will be insufferable, rendering the the idea of sexual education useless. Also, Sex Ed., I think, is society's way of coping with the problem it and the media have created.

In a way, or on some level or another, Sex Ed. encourages teenagers who do want to engage in sex just as long as it's "safe" sex. I don't care if people think that sex is normal (and yes, it 'is' normal); but we humans are intelligent enough to have enough sense to put off those natural 'tendencies' for more important matters, but teenagers don't think that way, I guess.

At any rate, I'm naively imagining that sometime in the near future, perhaps, this sexed-up, vain and superficial society will die away like a fad. I don't think that'll ever happen.

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Originally posted by Theresa Read this: http://www.advocatesforyouth.org/in...=450&Itemid=336 http://www.sciencedaily.com/release...80319151225.htm I have a bunch of academic sources on this as well, but all of them require access to my University database. EDIT: You can read the abstracts from some of them without the access though: http://www.jahonline.org/article/S1...0426-0/abstract

I'm not a religious zealot, but I am not impressed with scientific studies that prove that education to humans in certain areas that, really, require a lack of stupidity is beneficial.

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Originally posted by R.j. But what I won't agree with, however, is that Sex Ed. the miracle cure-all for teen-pregnancy.

Uh.. Who is arguing that?

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Originally posted by R.j. I'm not a religious zealot, but I am not impressed with scientific studies that prove that education to humans in certain areas that, really, require a lack of stupidity is beneficial.

I don�t know how someone is meant to learn about say, STIs, without some form of education.

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Originally posted by R.j. I'm not a religious zealot, but I am not impressed with scientific studies that prove that education to humans in certain areas that, really, require a lack of stupidity is beneficial.

o.o

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Originally posted by Lews Uh.. Who is arguing that?

I could be wrong, but I'm sure that some people who advocate these sorts of programs have this notion that the "problem" will progressively lessen to the point of extinction if it's enforced.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN I don�t know how someone is meant to learn about say, STIs, without some form of education.

By experience? I'm not saying that they have to learn the hard way; education is necessary, but it does not always have to be formal.

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Originally posted by R.j. I don't care if people think that sex is normal (and yes, it 'is' normal); but we humans are intelligent enough to have enough sense to put off those natural 'tendencies' for more important matters, but teenagers don't think that way, I guess.

If they're not getting diseases or pregnant from it, then surely it's a both safer and less potentially destructive pastime than drink or drugs? I find it bizarre to suggest that teenagers are too stupid to know when to stop fucking and do their homework.

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Originally posted by R.j. By experience? I'm not saying that they have to learn the hard way; education is necessary, but it does not always have to be formal.

...you want teenagers to experience STDs to learn about them? You make absolutely no sense sometimes.

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Originally posted by R.j. By experience? I'm not saying that they have to learn the hard way; education is necessary, but it does not always have to be formal.

What the fuck?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J ...you want teenagers to experience STDs to learn about them? You make absolutely no sense sometimes.

He writes like he already has experienced an advanced case of untreated syphilis.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J If they're not getting diseases or pregnant from it, then surely it's a both safer and less potentially destructive pastime than drink or drugs? I find it bizarre to suggest that teenagers are too stupid to know when to stop fucking and do their homework. ...you want teenagers to experience STDs to learn about them? You make absolutely no sense sometimes.

I'm not saying ALL teenagers are that stupid. Maybe I should have clarified that. But, hey, there's a big majority of plain stupid people. And it'll progressively worsen, I'm sure.

I said education doesn't always have to be formal. How difficult is it for a parent to tell his/her or son/daughter that, with sex, there's a lot of risk involved?

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Originally posted by R.j. I'm not saying ALL teenagers are that stupid. Maybe I should have clarified that. But, hey, there's a big majority of plain stupid people. And it'll progressively worsen, I'm sure.

I don't agree with either of these statements. I don't believe a majority of kids are that stupid and I don't see any evidence or reason to suggest kids are getting stupider beyond idiotic nostalgic cognitive bias. And even then, if they are that stupid then something is going to distract them, whether it's sex, drinking or Modern Warfare 2.

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I said education doesn't always have to be formal. How difficult is it for a parent to tell his/her or son/daughter that, with sex, there's a lot of risk involved?

Because that doesn't cover all the questions and possibilities. Education is a standardised, compulsory authority that ensures everyone gets the information. Some parents are too embarassed, some have stubborn ideas, some are ignorant and some are stupid.

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Originally posted by R.j. How difficult is it for a parent to tell his/her or son/daughter that, with sex, there's a lot of risk involved?

you're kidding right?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I don't agree with either of these statements. I don't believe a majority of kids are that stupid

Well, I don't agree with that.

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J and I don't see any evidence or reason to suggest kids are getting stupider

You don't believe that, compared to, say, 70 years ago, the world population, due in part to the absence of this plethora of mindless entertainment that we have today, had the edge over today's world as far as intelligence goes?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J And even then, if they are that stupid then something is going to distract them, whether it's sex, drinking or Modern Warfare 2.

Yeah. But it's still a problem, no?

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Some parents are too embarassed, some have stubborn ideas, some are ignorant and some are stupid.

So that means we should automatically replace the parent with formal education? I say yes in that case, that's probably the best thing to do; and you'll probably say yes, too. What I don't like, however, is the fact that the "parent" role is gets replaced by school programs more and more. It's beneficial, I'll agree. But it sort of undermines the idea of parenting, doesn't it?

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN you're kidding right?

Nope. I think the lack of the "sex" talk between the parent/child stems from the fact that the parent finds it shameful, or something to that effect.

Why should people be ashamed of what's natural?

And even if the parent is stupid, wouldn't a general "Sex isn't bad, but it should wait" be part of the common parenting duty?

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