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quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 maybe FEMA should just be dismantled then?

FEMA is a great idea for natural disasters where you can't blame someone....although people have tired. There are clearly liability issues here and I'm pretty sure those issues are what prevent Obama from taking action and having the government take control of the matter. No matter what Obama does the government will be named in lawsuits over this for either not acting or for acting....he is pretty much screwed either way.

a pretty weak way to "run" things.

And im sorry but i dont buy it one bit

face the facts.....this environmental world wide disaster will not end until those relief wells are installed......NO MATTER WHAT ANYONE SAYS OR ANYONE DOES

so shut the fuck up about obama "not doing anything" because he/anyone can't do anything at this point....

funny but hurricanes are a much bigger disaster and people demanded that a lot be done a lot faster during katrina.

double standards.

As i said, send in FEMA to start distributing aid and the army to start cleaning up the beaches.

Unreal the free pass everyone is giving obama.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 funny but hurricanes are a much bigger disaster and people demanded that a lot be done a lot faster during katrina. double standards. As i said, send in FEMA to start distributing aid and the army to start cleaning up the beaches. Unreal the free pass everyone is giving obama.

The BP (or whichever corp) is responsible for every cent spent on cleanup and restoration, I don't care if the CEOs need to sell their clothes to make that happen.

This is not a natural disaster. The oil corporations can't be allowed to pin it on Obama.

End this thread

The BP coffee spill

Re: Obama and the oil spill

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 So why is Obama getting a free ride for doing nothing over the oil spill? If Bush was in power and did nothing hed be accused of racism, being in kahoots with the oil companies, and probably even the cause of the whole mess. So what gives with the biased media???

He is saying they have to pay for it - so he's letting the costs rack up. I don't think that is necesarily the way it goes, but that is the impression. He also has cancled out of country trips and has visited the area more than once.

I have the sense that barack DOES personally make spot appearances for things that are escalated to his level. You may not see it, but BP is one example. The spin control on the issue was so good it devestated the gulf for a decade with only minor discontent - perhaps because activists are democrats and so is obama - while lobbiest are republican (and so is oil)


The whole "engineered vs actual" is alway in question for a 45+ day oil spill) in a country that has a multi trillion dollar economy of which oil is a large segment of it - and that technologies and resources to combat such an issue exist. Did they break the law? If not - then maybe it is congress you need to ask -- but once again this has been a spring board to bring in environmental legislation americans are traditionally adverse to.

It might hurt those in those areas effect (not that the whole world wasn't effected by a spill of this size); however, perhaps it was just another form of masonic ritual sacrifice in persuit of a greater agenda. Harm helps acheive the mission. Offset for gain. It makes no sense perhaps but why is everyone so caught up in finding scape goats instead of creating measures to prevent recurrence and reduce harm.

Both the Aztecs (proponent mexico) and JudeoChristain God (USA and Mexico) Practice ritual human and animal sacrifices, even some other native american groups sacrificed dogs. Now drowing thousands of animals in oil and leader to health complications and deaths of many thousands more may not be as acceptable as killing 1000 birds to make god happy but look deep at the mindset and then ask yourself again why people arn't really all that upset.

Because only a fragment of the people actually feel the effects. And most people don't give a shit about other people in todays world.
Life is a process in the modern era not a practice.

If you don't fit the mold, you don't go down the line. The massess generally do not break the line - and people are observers not activists for the most part in todays world. So that is why Mr. president ain't getting a whole lotta pain.

Note BP "that London (UK) -based company "

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 funny but hurricanes are a much bigger disaster and people demanded that a lot be done a lot faster during katrina. double standards. As i said, send in FEMA to start distributing aid and the army to start cleaning up the beaches. Unreal the free pass everyone is giving obama.

Hurricane Katrina was a human disaster, people lost houses, jobs, lives... something the govt can help relief.

Oil spill on the other hand ?? Do you think the Govt has any knowledge, at all, about how to fix submarine oil leakage??

I think it would be worse if some pen pusher in Washington gets involved. Don't you think?

This spill going to be a really huge disaster if its true that they can't stop it from leaking for the next 20-30 years. Just the oil is a problem. Add in hurricane season

Honestly... The Gulf will never be the same. If the worst does happen. Thats millions of people going to have to relocate.

I don't know if I should be comparing this to Chernobyl right now, but it could probably turn into something like that. Seeing the environmental impact and the impact of wildlife and human population (if people don't move out of the contaminated areas), when hurricanes hit with petrol and what not.

Just imagine if it does get into the Atlantic

Only thing positive that can come from this whole debacle. People start forcing the government and corporations to look for other sorts of renewable resource.

HOW IN THE HELL is it so difficult to fix this damn leak???

I have solutions in my head for this thing but can't find any way to see why they wouldn't work...

quote:

Originally posted by malek WHat do you want Obama to do anyways? Tell BP to fix it? That's what they're trying. Fix it faster? mmm ok. Then what? Really, BP is doing all it can do, and if any of you guys have a better idea then why don't you step up and tell us your ideas (and so we can laugh a bit). As if BP hasn't lost half its value on the market ( a tiny 100B$! none the less) Losing 40k barrels a day, that's another 2.8 million a day lost, on top of all the 1B+ already spent on cleaning efforts. Managing a disaster is always easier from the comfort of our homes

I agree 100%.
It's absolutely 100% in BP's interest to fix this as fast as possible. Every single one of their stakeholders is freaking the fuck out.
The difference here with Katrina is that the clean up effort for that disaster was publicly acknowledged to be the responsibility of a government agency, which then did a horrible job of handling it. The situations are both dire but the parties responsible for this are completely different, which is why the government directed outrage is also different. BP is far more versed in how to clean up an oil spill than the US government is anyways.

Oh - Obama is speaking tonight specifically on the spill.

quote:

Originally posted by Jayx1 funny but hurricanes are a much bigger disaster and people demanded that a lot be done a lot faster during katrina. double standards. As i said, send in FEMA to start distributing aid and the army to start cleaning up the beaches. Unreal the free pass everyone is giving obama.

Hmm...Jayx unbalanced comparison #134543653408

Katrina: hurricane they saw coming, and didn't do a damn thing. Responsibility of a federal organization, specifically set up to deal with natural disasters.

Oil Leak: privately owned/operated oil rig springs a 'leak'. Their responsibility to fix.

Yes, this whole ordeal is out of hand, and it needs to be stopped. But the difficulty of stopping a leak like this is just crazy, and it is hard for engineers to figure out what to do. Katrina? Get people out of the area when you already have a warning.

Somebody has said it before, but I think it needs to be stated again. BP has far more resources than the gov to deal with it. The gov doesn't just have oil rig equipment sitting around which allows them to go down and plug something like this. Plus, it takes time/planning to build proper equipment that can do this.

The real failure was the lack of an environmental assessment, and disaster plan. This was a clear failure of the government to not ask for these things. How much of that is 'Obama's fault', I don't know. But as with most things that have gone wrong in the last 1.5 years, I'll put good money that it was a previous administration that fucked things up.

One thing I am surprised the price of petrol and products that are made from it have not gone up in price. I thought we were running out of oil and what not

BP loses about 40,000 barrels a day and its been 55 days. Thats 2.2 million barrels. That equals 349 772.049 m3

What of waste of petrol and our environment.

I wonder what kind of thing BP trying to come up with to make people pay more for oil

A couple of things I'd like to point out. If there is a government failure here, it is one of excessive deregulation - that is not Obama's fault though, and you can bet your ass that new regulations are coming at record speed in the next session of congress.

Hmmmm... seems like a cautionary tale to those who want the government to get out of everything

If the government is going to get involved with the cleanup, it will be the military nuking the seabed PERMANENTLY sealing the leak. This is the last resort option though.

Is Obama getting a free ride on this? Perhaps a little, but as stated by a number of other posters, the circumstances here versus Katrina are COMPLETELY different. Government incompetence didn't cause this problem - the laissez-faire economic philosophy did. Government incompetence won't fix it either - unless you want to go to the scorched earth approach. At least with allowing BP to handle the situation, the expertise is on-site, and there is SOME possibility of recovering oil to pay for the massive lawsuits that are coming.

OK, so eventually BP is going to shut down the leak. Then what?

Cleaning up the mess will be even more challenging.

I doubt they can ever fully clean up that mess, and will need nature's help in diluting this mess ... 380 million litres of oil leaked over a very large area (as of today), increasing, and constantly spreading / moving. Also, a considerable quantity of oil is dissolving in the water, creating hazardous conditions for the marine life. Oil plumes have now entered the major ocean current that goes around Florida and into Gulf Stream.

You can throw all the money at this spill now, but the damage will be hard to reverse.

Also, BP's long-running habit for giving environment and health/safety a low priority will likely continue, as they have failed to improve on their past violations and fines. They had serious accidents in the past, which were hardly a deterrent. Why are we defending BP? Why say that they are doing all they can to fix this problem? They are not trying out of their will, but because they are forced to throw everything at the spill minus the kitchen sink to see what works. They are not in control of the situation. They're helpless, hopeless.

Throughout this entire disaster BP has continuously lied about the progress, by downgrading the numbers/statistics such the oil leak flow rates, saying that the situation is not as bad, that the fix has a great chance of success. They even strongly rejected the idea that there are underwater oil plumes even when there is scientific evidence for their existence. They tried to prevent live video feeds of the repair work done at the underwater site, tried many means of hiding the truth from the public. Then Obama forced them to air them.

Oh, also BP insisted in drilling only one relief well, and thankfully Obama demanded that they drill two.

All this only shows, that even despite the horrific situation at hand, BP is still using its greedy and selfish mindset to keep their efforts to the minimum. I hope they go down and cease to exist as a company from this disaster, it would be a slap in the face if BP re-emerges as a cut-throat scorched-earth resource exploiter and greedy corporation. Some things can never change.

quote:

Originally posted by jester One thing I am surprised the price of petrol and products that are made from it have not gone up in price. I thought we were running out of oil and what not BP loses about 40,000 barrels a day and its been 55 days. Thats 2.2 million barrels. That equals 349 772.049 m3 What of waste of petrol and our environment. I wonder what kind of thing BP trying to come up with to make people pay more for oil

40k barrels is nothing compared to the 80 000 000 barrels produced every day.

quote:

Originally posted by Magnetonium OK, so eventually BP is going to shut down the leak. Then what? Cleaning up the mess will be even more challenging. I doubt they can ever fully clean up that mess, and will need nature's help in diluting this mess ... 380 million litres of oil leaked over a very large area (as of today), increasing, and constantly spreading / moving. Also, a considerable quantity of oil is dissolving in the water, creating hazardous conditions for the marine life. Oil plumes have now entered the major ocean current that goes around Florida and into Gulf Stream. You can throw all the money at this spill now, but the damage will be hard to reverse. Also, BP's long-running habit for giving environment and health/safety a low priority will likely continue, as they have failed to improve on their past violations and fines. They had serious accidents in the past, which were hardly a deterrent. Why are we defending BP? Why say that they are doing all they can to fix this problem? They are not trying out of their will, but because they are forced to throw everything at the spill minus the kitchen sink to see what works. They are not in control of the situation. They're helpless, hopeless. Throughout this entire disaster BP has continuously lied about the progress, by downgrading the numbers/statistics such the oil leak flow rates, saying that the situation is not as bad, that the fix has a great chance of success. They even strongly rejected the idea that there are underwater oil plumes even when there is scientific evidence for their existence. They tried to prevent live video feeds of the repair work done at the underwater site, tried many means of hiding the truth from the public. Then Obama forced them to air them. Oh, also BP insisted in drilling only one relief well, and thankfully Obama demanded that they drill two. All this only shows, that even despite the horrific situation at hand, BP is still using its greedy and selfish mindset to keep their efforts to the minimum. I hope they go down and cease to exist as a company from this disaster, it would be a slap in the face if BP re-emerges as a cut-throat scorched-earth resource exploiter and greedy corporation. Some things can never change.

Did you know that every year 4 times as much as the current BP oil spill is lost in the oceans ??

You don't hear about it and it's not being cleaned. OIL is a natural ressource and is dissected by diverse bacterias in the ocean.

It hasn't even gotten interesting yet. The cleanup is going to be in the 50-60 Billion Dollar range. BP has said they have approximately 20 Billion......so what will happen when BP files bankruptcy????

quote:

Originally posted by jester One thing I am surprised the price of petrol and products that are made from it have not gone up in price. I thought we were running out of oil and what not BP loses about 40,000 barrels a day and its been 55 days. Thats 2.2 million barrels. That equals 349 772.049 m3 What of waste of petrol and our environment. I wonder what kind of thing BP trying to come up with to make people pay more for oil

Bumps on the graph: daily supply and demand
3 month moves: bear/bull market
10 year moves: pre/post peak production

quote:

Originally posted by malek Did you know that every year 4 times as much as the current BP oil spill is lost in the oceans ?? You don't hear about it and it's not being cleaned. OIL is a natural ressource and is dissected by diverse bacterias in the ocean.

Well then we dont have to worry about the damage to the Lousiana's fragile marine sanctuary, eh? Let just let the nature clean up the entire mess ... its very natural for oil deposits to leaks thousands of barrels of oil per day. This spill is quite natural, not to worry about it! :sarcasm:

What you're saying would be quite insulting to the thousands of people who are losing their livelihoods, jobs, tourism devastated, and fish spawning grounds decimated by the oil cover. Too bad you're not from Louisiana, because I wonder how you'd be talking about it if you lived in the affected areas. Spill is looking quite natural, doesnt it?

In any case, oil is not leaking in any one place in such amounts from natural causes. This is a man-made disaster, so obviously it is very different and the results, accordingly, are very devastasting. It is wrong to compare natural slow seeping of oil fragments and minerals into oceans (whatever the theoretical oil leak there might be), and the man-made disasters.

And if you're really gonna talk about spilling of stuff into oceans, you should know that oil spills are just a tip of the iceberg, when it comes to the big problem at hand. There are also many other kinds of man-made acts of pollution of the oceans: world-famous Pacific Garbage Patch, as a result of people dumping all kinds of waste into the oceans, including raw sewage, toxic chemicals/waste, garbage, and plastics, etc.

No wonder why our oceans have become more acidic in the recent decades. It is no longer safe to eat fish because of bioacumulation of chemicals and toxins, and the typically constant human logic that one small spill or act of pollution is no big deal. Adding them all together, however, is a BIG DEAL. This disaster is a BIG DEAL, mainly because it is a large spill in a very concentrated area which has a very sensitive marine zone, on which many people and marine life depend on for way of life, living, and survival.

quote:

Originally posted by ChemEnhanced It hasn't even gotten interesting yet. The cleanup is going to be in the 50-60 Billion Dollar range. BP has said they have approximately 20 Billion......so what will happen when BP files bankruptcy????

charge more for Coronation Street syndication

This is absolutely the most retarded thread I have ever read. For so many reasons, that I wont comment, because I dont even feel like engaging in such a lengthy discussion filled with nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by Abercrombie charge more for Coronation Street syndication

I think being crucified be less painful than watching that show.

quote:

Originally posted by jester One thing I am surprised the price of petrol and products that are made from it have not gone up in price. I thought we were running out of oil and what not BP loses about 40,000 barrels a day and its been 55 days. Thats 2.2 million barrels. That equals 349 772.049 m3 What of waste of petrol and our environment. I wonder what kind of thing BP trying to come up with to make people pay more for oil

price of oil has gone down cuz of the financial crisis in europe. Mainly greece

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