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Jane Austen

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J What does that mean?

To go astray in your thoughts and lose touch with reality. That's well possible in non-fiction as well, I realise that, but you're given some more leeway when it comes to fiction, so you don't need to be so realistic. Living with women and talking to them directly may give you some more insight on how they think (if there's anything outstanding to be learned), and I'd say reading non-fiction is the second best thing.

The problem is that not even a schematic exists for female thinking. Yes...it's that serious.

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Originally posted by Fledz The problem is that not even a schematic exists for female thinking. Yes...it's that serious.

Bloody hell, I'm screwed

Men are styrong and women arwe weak .

period!

fuck that jazz

Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Lira Dear female TA's, I hate generalisations, and experience has not always shown me that the way women think is much more different than the way men do. But, there's this widespread belief that the way women see the world is indeed different from the way the other half of humanity deals with it. There's certainly a very sharp cultural division between what's expected from Jack and what Jill is supposed to do, so perhaps there's some truth to this idea that there's this chasm in the two complementing halves of the world think.

What Jack and Jill do is completely dependant on where they grow up, their economic status and ethnic/religious background. It isn't a generalisation. 80% of the world is still subsistence farming or labour intensive, low technology base, high degree of religious belief and cultural practices that are very rigidly adhered to.
In the majority of countries and cultures, Jack and Jill don't have a say in who or what they will marry, that will be a complicated process arranged by their parents. So, if Jack loves Jill, but Jack and Jills parents have the final say and approval.

There is still some hangover from that in westernised countries of seeking 'Dads' approval to date Jill, but for the most part there are a number of laws in place that contravene cultural preferences and they can run off together without the fear that Jill will get stoned to death or a can of petrol poured over her and torched by her irate male relatives seeking to protect the family/clan honour.

Romance is a dangerous activity in some places!
So your characters will need a foundation and background before you can figure out how they will behave, remembering that very few people buck their social norms and those that do, tend to lead a tragic existence unless they run away to somewhere they will be tolerated.

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There are quite a few myths that are completely unwarranted (such as the idea that women talk more than men), so I do not want any generalisations you read in books full of hasty platonic divisions, such as "Men are from Mars, and Women come from a Hot Hot Planet where they all live in peace and harmony singing Kumbaya". What I want is concrete situations in which you felt most guys had a different way of dealing with things when compared to a group of girls.

Women talk to other women to sort out all sorts of things and are quite open about what they will talk about. Men dodge around the really sensitive things when they hang out with friends with some kind of blokey-code of just suffering in silence or risk being branded a complete pussy.
Serious levels of depression and anxiety problems are twice as bad for women as they are for men, however... that to some extent is because women will actually seek help and talk about it, as opposed to men who will just wander around with that baggage until they drop dead from the stress rather than talk to anyone!

Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Lilith Men dodge around the really sensitive things when they hang out with friends with some kind of blokey-code of just suffering in silence or risk being branded a complete pussy.

This simply isn't true and is a very common misconception. Most if not all men confide in their closest mates, we just don't talk about it to others and make a big deal about it.

Re: Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Fledz This simply isn't true and is a very common misconception. Most if not all men confide in their closest mates, we just don't talk about it to others and make a big deal about it.

You don't talk about it to your partners very often though, that's the gap where people don't connect in relationships because at some level its clicking over in the back of your head, that your partner will think you're weak and move on to someone with less issues.

Re: Re: Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Lilith You don't talk about it to your partners very often though, that's the gap where people don't connect in relationships because at some level its clicking over in the back of your head, that your partner will think you're weak and move on to someone with less issues.

That's because the partner is generally of the opposite sex and doesn't experience the same problems. You can't talk through everything with your partner, you need a different outlet sometimes.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Fledz That's because the partner is generally of the opposite sex and doesn't experience the same problems. You can't talk through everything with your partner, you need a different outlet sometimes.

What kind of problems specifically?
Most of us live, work and function at least superficially on the same level that everyone else does in western society to encounter fairly much all the same problems.

Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Lilith What Jack and Jill do is completely dependant on where they grow up, their economic status and ethnic/religious background. It isn't a generalisation. 80% of the world is still subsistence farming or labour intensive, low technology base, high degree of religious belief and cultural practices that are very rigidly adhered to. In the majority of countries and cultures, Jack and Jill don't have a say in who or what they will marry, that will be a complicated process arranged by their parents. So, if Jack loves Jill, but Jack and Jills parents have the final say and approval.

That wasn't exactly what I had in mind when I wrote that, thought this is the sort of cultural difference that exists in the world and that I'm keeping in mind. I was talking about our own situation, however, urban middle-class areas from rather developed regions of the world (I know this is not how you guys see Brazil, but I'm in a very affluent region).

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Originally posted by Lilith So your characters will need a foundation and background before you can figure out how they will behave, remembering that very few people buck their social norms and those that do, tend to lead a tragic existence unless they run away to somewhere they will be tolerated.

This is also something to be kept in mind, and is a rather good point. I agree with you here as I'm well aware of this

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Originally posted by Lilith Women talk to other women to sort out all sorts of things and are quite open about what they will talk about. Men dodge around the really sensitive things when they hang out with friends with some kind of blokey-code of just suffering in silence or risk being branded a complete pussy. Serious levels of depression and anxiety problems are twice as bad for women as they are for men, however... that to some extent is because women will actually seek help and talk about it, as opposed to men who will just wander around with that baggage until they drop dead from the stress rather than talk to anyone!

See, this is the sort of generalisation I'm trying to eschew. I'm quite open about my life, and as Fledz said, most blokes have their confidants with whom they talk about their lives. There's a pressure for men to keep a stiff-upper-lip depending on where they are, but this is far from being a rule that everyone follows.

outletz have inletz fledz and inletz have outletz

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Lilith What kind of problems specifically? Most of us live, work and function at least superficially on the same level that everyone else does in western society to encounter fairly much all the same problems.

Love, work, friendship, family... this sort of thing. We talk about it all the time.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Lira Love, work, friendship, family... this sort of thing. We talk about it all the time.

Maybe for a dating relationship which is still going through courtship that is fairly tolerant of flaws, but what happens when you move away from that support base and begin living with one another?
And still don't confide to you partner?

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Originally posted by Lilith What kind of problems specifically? Most of us live, work and function at least superficially on the same level that everyone else does in western society to encounter fairly much all the same problems.

With each other? It's well established that men and women are wired differently so it's no surprise that arguments arise. I don't think that's a problem really, just that opposite sexes may handle it differently. Yes men and women live very similar lives but it's no secret that there are differences.

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Originally posted by simplcake outletz have inletz fledz and inletz have outletz

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Originally posted by Fledz With each other? It's well established that men and women are wired differently so it's no surprise that arguments arise. I don't think that's a problem really, just that opposite sexes may handle it differently. Yes men and women live very similar lives but it's no secret that there are differences.

The crux of Lira's question was, what are these specific differences, where is the wiring different?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The so-called female way of thinking

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Originally posted by Lilith Maybe for a dating relationship which is still going through courtship that is fairly tolerant of flaws, but what happens when you move away from that support base and begin living with one another? And still don't confide to you partner?

Why would you not confide to your partner?

In my case, my fiancée knows about every little thing about me, except when I figure it may make her insecure (i.e. if I'm mad at her and want to vent when it's not yet a good idea to confront the problem head on) or if this is going to spoil a surprise I want to make for her. In that case, I can always talk to a mate.

Everyone I know talks to their friends, and specially with their partners.

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Originally posted by Lilith The crux of Lira's question was, what are these specific differences, where is the wiring different?

Precisely

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Originally posted by Fledz

like you havent been there done that got a fledzing t-shirt

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Originally posted by Lilith The crux of Lira's question was, what are these specific differences, where is the wiring different?

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Originally posted by Fledz The problem is that not even a schematic exists for female thinking. Yes...it's that serious.

Seriously though....hormones? We have a different genetic and biological make-up because we were designed to serve a different purpose.
If you want a psychological viewpoint, I doubt you or Lira or anyone else will ever get one.

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Originally posted by Fledz Seriously though....hormones? We have a different genetic and biological make-up because we were designed to serve a different purpose. If you want a psychological viewpoint, I doubt you or Lira or anyone else will ever get one.

Well, what I want is just narratives, hunches, episodes, and insights. I really am not expecting anyone to come up with a full-blown theoretical framework regarding what men and women (don't) have in common.

I told you, hormones. We have more testosterone, they have more oestrogen. There you go.

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Originally posted by Fledz I told you, hormones. We have more testosterone, they have more oestrogen. There you go.

And what changes once we acknowledge there are hormonal differences? I reckon high testosterone levels means we're more prone to violence and...?

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Originally posted by Fledz Seriously though....hormones? We have a different genetic and biological make-up because we were designed to serve a different purpose.

Designed, by god?

God has very little bearing on westerners behaviour, hormones aren't really the most massive difference either, culture however, who you are, where you come from and what you do plays quite a lot of difference.

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Originally posted by Lilith Designed, by god?

Possibly but incredibly unlikely.

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