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-- Stuck and Banging My Head Against a Wall with my Mixing
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One thing that has helped me with getting my levels right is to open my mixes in a WAV editor like audacity.

You can see if something is off especially if you have the bass too high or low, it makes it easier to pick up the problem as well if you listen to the mix again.

You'll be surpised at how much better your mix is when you do it again.

I almost bought these two tracks just to try... luckily I came to my senses. "WTF am I doing buying deep house?"

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Originally posted by chewy dragee One thing that has helped me with getting my levels right is to open my mixes in a WAV editor like audacity. You can see if something is off especially if you have the bass too high or low, it makes it easier to pick up the problem as well if you listen to the mix again. You'll be surpised at how much better your mix is when you do it again. I almost bought these two tracks just to try... luckily I came to my senses. "WTF am I doing buying deep house?"

How does looking at wavs after the fact help you get your levels right? Sorry but you should be listening to see if your levels are right - you're not going to have combined waveforms when you're mixing are you?

Just listen to the shit - if one is too loud then turn it down and one is too quiet, bring it up. Remember what constitutes sound in terms of frequencies and just learn to combine tracks based on their content.

I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt but you're just overcooking this way too much and you want results immediately. It's not going to help you - it can take 10 years to properly master mixing so don't beat yourself up and just try to enjoy it. It's sounds like you're really not having any fun and you might as well sell your decks right now if that's the case.

This isn't rocket science, it's musical art, so just experiment until it sounds right.

if you practice enough, you don't need audacity. people that mix with records can't edit them first and it comes naturally to learn how to drop things properly.

imo editing everything is an easy way out...in the long run using your ear will make you a better dj.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN How does looking at wavs after the fact help you get your levels right? Sorry but you should be listening to see if your levels are right - you're not going to have combined waveforms when you're mixing are you? Just listen to the shit - if one is too loud then turn it down and one is too quiet, bring it up. Remember what constitutes sound in terms of frequencies and just learn to combine tracks based on their content. I'm sorry, I don't mean to be blunt but you're just overcooking this way too much and you want results immediately. It's not going to help you - it can take 10 years to properly master mixing so don't beat yourself up and just try to enjoy it. It's sounds like you're really not having any fun and you might as well sell your decks right now if that's the case. This isn't rocket science, it's musical art, so just experiment until it sounds right.

I never said that you shouldn't listen to the mix. This is just something I find that helps while practicing. I also didn't say use it the whole time.

I said that if you look at a waveform and you listen to the mix again that you sometimes hear something that you didn't pick up when you only listened because of something you saw on the waveform.

I also never said that it would give you results immediately.

If it was purely muscial art, we would be using flutes, drums and dancing girls.

Where exactly did I say that I wasn't having any fun?

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Originally posted by Dojomaster26 Shudder is right about the Master Tempo thing. It sounds like there is some glitch or the kicks sound really "digital" when Master Tempo is on. It seems to work fine up to about +/- 2%, and then it gets weird.

The track is being timestretched to increase the speed yet also hold the key of the original record. The faster you go with it the more choppy the track will sound because the stretch is trying to give you the best of both worlds. If you had it turned off, the key would then change as you increase the pitch by +2/3%. That would mean you would need to start mixing in key and knowing what key is playing and what key you can mix that into.

By the sounds of that sample you need to work on your beatmatching a lot more though. Those two tracks your mixing have different sounds/moods and dont fit for me.

Also this talk of levels, thats what your LED's / gains are for. Its really quite simple. Your master LED lights should never ever be solid above -3db. This allows for any spikes and provides optimal recording level.

When you are cueing, do any EQ tweaks you feel necessry and use your gain to make sure the incoming records LEDs are around -4db and then adjust the gain further from there when its in the mix to keep the overall mix at under -3db.

dojomaster you suck, beatmatching is the easiest thing in the world. give up or learn to timewarp u half bloat

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Originally posted by chewy dragee I never said that you shouldn't listen to the mix. This is just something I find that helps while practicing. I also didn't say use it the whole time. I said that if you look at a waveform and you listen to the mix again that you sometimes hear something that you didn't pick up when you only listened because of something you saw on the waveform. I also never said that it would give you results immediately. If it was purely muscial art, we would be using flutes, drums and dancing girls. Where exactly did I say that I wasn't having any fun?

I think he's referring to me, bro. Don't get too worked up over some words on the internet.

Of course I suck, that's why I'm working on getting better.

lol@ chewy "WTF am I doing buying Deep House?!?" That's how I would feel if I went to buy a Florida Breaks track... What do you normally play?

I agree with you RANN that I'm not having much fun when the mixes go sour, but I do have tons of fun when things go right. I guess its like working on a computer or building a model. Obviously you will get frustrated when some piece of code stops working, or you glued the wrong piece to your $80 paperweight, but I think that's what makes the payoff more satisfying when it does eventually go right.

Regarding the levels, I leave the gains alone after testing to make sure that I'm not redlining on my recording software. I don't have a lot of leeway in terms of gain, but I can start with them at a lower level and then be able to adjust from there. I will work on using my gains along with the EQs in the new mix.

djkatmaus: I can listen to the left channel, the right channel, or a mix of both channels in my headphones. I can also set up the cue so that both channels are heard, but one channel is softer than the other.

Hopefully I will have some new stuff uploaded tonight... and its not going to be Deep House

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Originally posted by Dojomaster26 I think he's referring to me, bro. Don't get too worked up over some words on the internet.

Exactly. I was trying to say to Dojomaster just enjoy it, otherwise you'll mix the life out of it and stop having fun which really what this is all meant to be about.

@chewey - you didn't say hear the wav recording, you said you can open it up and see. You can't really see bass or frequencies in audacity (unless you were to apply a filter to the entire thing to review) to you can't tell frequencies without hearing it, and for that you just need to play it back.

I know what you're trying to say - it's helps to review your work, but I think people should not really stare at waveforms to try to do this.

one glance at your master will tell you if your clipping and frankly once you have your gain staging set up right before you start mixing, clipping should not even come in to the equation again as long as you watch your gains on your mixer.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Exactly. I was trying to say to Dojomaster just enjoy it, otherwise you'll mix the life out of it and stop having fun which really what this is all meant to be about. @chewey - you didn't say hear the wav recording, you said you can open it up and see. You can't really see bass or frequencies in audacity (unless you were to apply a filter to the entire thing to review) to you can't tell frequencies without hearing it, and for that you just need to play it back. I know what you're trying to say - it's helps to review your work, but I think people should not really stare at waveforms to try to do this. one glance at your master will tell you if your clipping and frankly once you have your gain staging set up right before you start mixing, clipping should not even come in to the equation again as long as you watch your gains on your mixer.

DJ RANN posts a lot of good advice in this forum. He's been around the block a few times so he knows what he is talking about. He maybe blunt on his responses, but sometimes that's the only way to get one back on track.

When I started DJing again, I was mixing from a technical stand point. Years of working in studios, and concerts, tends to do that. I was too busy trying to apply the laws of audio to my DJ mixes that I wasn't having any fun. But once I got that shit out of my system, the fun came back.

Another thing to remember is to trust your ears. If your mix sounds soft, loud, or distorted to you, the crowd is gonna hear the samething.

Ok I haven't listened to those tracks or your mix you uploaded, but something you might want to do that hasnt been talked about yet is count your beats.
As in, count the beats for the outro of the song you're mixing out of, and of the intro of the song you want to mix in.
Normally tracks will have their major changes every 32 or 64 beats, and will have the same sort of progression in terms of their intro's and outro's making it easy to match them up for a smooth mix.

However, some tracks if you count the beats (and yes to do this properly you'll be counting over 100 beats a lot of the time) will turn out to have different length intro's or outros or have little breaks in them that don't really seem to fit with whichever song you're trying to mix it with.

One example i've come across is temptation by vengeance (dengus vs manus remix), where it has breaks in different spots to usual and an extra long intro... so i've had to loop the outro of the previous track for an extra 16 beats here, 32 beats there for it to mix smoothly.

Also another tip... for songs around 128-134bpm a pitch increase or decrease of 0.7% will be roughly up or down 1bpm. So if you know one track is 130 and the other is 128, just pitch up the 128bpm track by 1.5% and that should only require minor adjustments riding the pitch.

Hey man some more words that hopefully might help I've found that sometimes you need to take a break, stop putting pressure on yourself - that means don't even think about the decks & certainly don't touch them for a few days or even weeks. You'll probably find the groove comes back naturally. Golfers call it "The Yips"

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Originally posted by harlsom Ok I haven't listened to those tracks or your mix you uploaded, but something you might want to do that hasnt been talked about yet is count your beats. As in, count the beats for the outro of the song you're mixing out of, and of the intro of the song you want to mix in. Normally tracks will have their major changes every 32 or 64 beats, and will have the same sort of progression in terms of their intro's and outro's making it easy to match them up for a smooth mix. However, some tracks if you count the beats (and yes to do this properly you'll be counting over 100 beats a lot of the time) will turn out to have different length intro's or outros or have little breaks in them that don't really seem to fit with whichever song you're trying to mix it with. One example i've come across is temptation by vengeance (dengus vs manus remix), where it has breaks in different spots to usual and an extra long intro... so i've had to loop the outro of the previous track for an extra 16 beats here, 32 beats there for it to mix smoothly. Also another tip... for songs around 128-134bpm a pitch increase or decrease of 0.7% will be roughly up or down 1bpm. So if you know one track is 130 and the other is 128, just pitch up the 128bpm track by 1.5% and that should only require minor adjustments riding the pitch.

All this counting you're advocating takes all of the spontaneity out of DJing. Do it for long enough, learn your tracks and you'll instinctively know and react when key changeups are about to occur.

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Originally posted by keithos27 ^why turn that off? with it on won't it lock in the key, regardless of bpm?

Using the Master Tempo Key Lock creates artifacts in the sound. You can get away with it to some degree but I wouldn't do it if you plan on playing in a club or if your changing the pitch more than 1 or 2 percent.

Plus without the function on you can really do some nifty things.

As for beat matching...practice practice practice. It comes with time. Sometime's what sounds good in your head doesn't work out on the decks either. It happens to all of us, sometimes it's good to try some new ideas.

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Originally posted by PivotTechno All this counting you're advocating takes all of the spontaneity out of DJing. Do it for long enough, learn your tracks and you'll instinctively know and react when key changeups are about to occur.

when someone is learning, spontaneity should take a back seat to getting the basics tight. Once those are down, then kick it up a notch, no use in running before walking is there?

As a common rule at ~1min the intro of the track ends and around ~2min the bass start changing, you've 2 min to beatmatch your track if you have problems start beatmatching from the 1st kick, i usually cue in the next song after the build up (drop) of the 1st track. Mixing with phrases it's a bit intuitive, practice, practice, practice.

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Originally posted by IL Duce when someone is learning, spontaneity should take a back seat to getting the basics tight. Once those are down, then kick it up a notch, no use in running before walking is there?

I the sessions I give, I teach people that developing spontaneity is part of the learning process.

Totally agree with the spontanaety thing mate, however this guy is obviously having trouble trying to put a few specific tracks together, banging his head against a brick wall trying to figure it out :P

The whole getting a feel for things, instinct etc will come but there are some tracks out there (like the one I mentioned) that don't fit the way everything else out there does. I was having the same trouble until i actually counted it and realised the changeups didn't happen the same way they usually do.

If you're trying to record a mix and make it sound as good as possible, you want each track to fade in and out at the spots that are gonna create the best vibe/energy.

Especially for someone who is still getting a grasp of this stuff, counting bars can only help them in their understanding and feel of the layout of dance music. Nobody would do it all the time, it's mind numbing :P

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Originally posted by PivotTechno I the sessions I give, I teach people that developing spontaneity is part of the learning process.

it really is, i'm not disputing that...but when you have been mixing for a few years and can't seem to pull off a decent transition it is time to go back to basics. I'm not saying that creativity has no part in the process, just that you can be creative as hell and still not make it sound good because you are all over the place.

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Originally posted by IL Duce it really is, i'm not disputing that...but when you have been mixing for a few years and can't seem to pull off a decent transition it is time to go back to basics. I'm not saying that creativity has no part in the process, just that you can be creative as hell and still not make it sound good because you are all over the place.

Since someone already mentioned golf, I'll bring it up again, in relation to this post. Bear with me.

About halfway through his career, one of the greatest golfers of all time, Byron Nelson, stopped getting any swing lessons whatsoever. However, every day, he had his former coach stand behind him and make sure his feet were still lined up toward the target at address. Even though his swing had become automatic, and his only focus was on spontaneously altering it, shot-by-shot, he still needed constant reinforcement to avoid standing in the wrong place. Even in the case of somebody with once-in-a-generation talent, the most basic concept (where to stand) is still a prerequisite for performing even moderately well.

tl;dr - Jay's right. Match first, style later.

oh and another thing I just thought of.. again, i don't know whether its the case with your tracks, but some productions have their beats slightly out of time...
I think its a technique used to make things a fraction less syncopated to give it a more natural feel... although it would make things a little more difficult to match up.

quote:

Originally posted by harlsom oh and another thing I just thought of.. again, i don't know whether its the case with your tracks, but some productions have their beats slightly out of time... I think its a technique used to make things a fraction less syncopated to give it a more natural feel... although it would make things a little more difficult to match up.

'Swing'

Although there's usually not enough of a difference to feck things up for you.

I still stand by my advice. There are ways to develop good meter (which is largely what's required in this case) and subsequently good ears without counting beats. Most of the beginner DJs I instruct are like wooden boards behind the decks because they're already too much up in their heads - learning to relax and to MOVE while you're playing is a huge and often unrecognized part of learning to beatmatch and mix well.

I'm glad that i never paid someone like you to teach me to be honest. Beatcounting is far from essential, but if you don't impliment it to total noobs, it must be because you want them to suck longer and take more lessons.

I implement it by foot tapping, hip shaking, head nodding...whatever equates to the student's version of bodily movement to the music. I teach people to DJ, not to be formulaic jukeboxes who bring every single mix in and out the same way, ad infinitum. And yes, the learning curve is relatively steep when taught this way, but at least my students don't end up getting sucked into buying crap like digital BPM counters.

who said i do any of this?

do you print little certificates when they pass the "shake head" segment of a class? No offense but schools like yours are a ripoff.

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