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-- Does anyone have any tips on Funky House production?
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This is now a quivver appreciation thread. All hail this guys discog page http://www.discogs.com/artist/Quivver

Best track of his? I like his remix of Led Zeppelin - Babe I'm gonna leave you

discuss

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Well, I'm not an expert in funky house, but I spent much of my life playing bass in a variety of actual funk bands, so I think I can offer some advice. Funk relies heavily on groove and the major elements include (1) a solid backbeat, (2) syncopated percussion (e.g., hihats, congas, bongos, etc.), and (3) a groovy bass line played with feel. By backbeat, I mean the even-numbered beats (2 and 4), which are typically emphasized in funk. Even if you're using a 4/floor kick pattern, you should try to emphasize the second and fourth beats a bit more as your frame of reference, rather than the kick drum; this will help your groove lay back a bit, rather than pushing the beat. That said, think about using something funkier than 4/floor kicks for funky house, as well as offbeat claps/snares, ghost notes, etc. to add some groove. Too many funky house tracks these days lose the groove by hard-quantizing everything and levelling out the volumes and velocities, which is exactly what you should NOT be doing if you want some funk in your junk. Play/sequence the part with feel, slightly behind the beat, with varying dynamics that accentuate the off-beat parts. Think like a bassist when coming up with your bass lines - most funk bass lines generally tend to combine a fluid/legato main groove with staccato/percussive hits (pops/slaps) an octave above the main groove note at off-beat syncopated intervals. Most importantly, listen to some actual old-school funk as done by the masters (e.g., the ones that M4B mentioned earlier). Again, these are just my random suggestions from a funk bassist's POV, not an expert in funky house per se, so take it for what it's worth.

Wow. That's quite a bit more than I was expecting. Thanks for the advice.

In the track I've currently got, I've got, in addition to my main beat, an 808ish loop, a bongo loop, and a quick little snare rim loop all playing in and out throughout the piece. I haven't thought about how hard I've been quantizing everything, so I should probably pay more attention to that.

I have been experimenting quite a bit lately with messing with the velocities on piano riffs to create a more realistic sound, thinking about what notes I would naturally play harder, what beats I would be emphasizing, etc.

As far as the bassline goes, I've actually been composing them by sitting on my couch with my bass and plugging in whatever feels right. It's quite a bit harder than I thought to get a real stacatto, slap sound with samples or otherwise, so I might end up rendering it in another project with artificial slaps made via distortion or something and then plugging it back into my main project.

Again, thanks loads.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Well, I'm not an expert in funky house, but I spent much of my life playing bass in a variety of actual funk bands, .

I have a pretty nice vintage fender jazz bass at my parents house collecting dust. I do have my american Telecaster with me but haven't touched it in almost a year. its kinda just a prop now.

another tip: keep your loops 1/2bar length and a small change every 8. this way u get that back and forth movement. cryo was on the subject.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad pretty sure quincy jones , George Clinton. Rick Hames was doing that moog wiggle lead a decade earlier. Early house just ripped off those musicians but did it badly with no soul. No i'm not familiar with that guy and he definitely isn't a legend and that song licks in a bad way. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G5Dr...feature=related from 1982. Kinda makes you realize how irrelevant early EDM was. Well most of it.

Bullshit. Early house was about 303s, not moogs. The fact that later commercial house was all about dodgy pseudosoul shouldn't make you tar the rest of the genre with the same brush. Early house was something new, thats why it was awesome.

And get back on your meds, you're acting like a douche again. Quivver is definately not a nobody.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Well, I'm not an expert in funky house, but I spent much of my life playing bass in a variety of actual funk bands, so I think I can offer some advice. Funk relies heavily on groove and the major elements include (1) a solid backbeat, (2) syncopated percussion (e.g., hihats, congas, bongos, etc.), and (3) a groovy bass line played with feel. By backbeat, I mean the even-numbered beats (2 and 4), which are typically emphasized in funk. Even if you're using a 4/floor kick pattern, you should try to emphasize the second and fourth beats a bit more as your frame of reference, rather than the kick drum; this will help your groove lay back a bit, rather than pushing the beat. That said, think about using something funkier than 4/floor kicks for funky house, as well as offbeat claps/snares, ghost notes, etc. to add some groove. Too many funky house tracks these days lose the groove by hard-quantizing everything and levelling out the volumes and velocities, which is exactly what you should NOT be doing if you want some funk in your junk. Play/sequence the part with feel, slightly behind the beat, with varying dynamics that accentuate the off-beat parts. Think like a bassist when coming up with your bass lines - most funk bass lines generally tend to combine a fluid/legato main groove with staccato/percussive hits (pops/slaps) an octave above the main groove note at off-beat syncopated intervals. Most importantly, listen to some actual old-school funk as done by the masters (e.g., the ones that M4B mentioned earlier). Again, these are just my random suggestions from a funk bassist's POV, not an expert in funky house per se, so take it for what it's worth.

This is good advice.

Also, SAMPLE.

Off topic here, the usual on forums lol but I agree Quivver is a legend, fact. His music isnt funky house but its all excellent.

One of my all time favourite tunes, ever!

Stoneproof - Everythings Not You [Quivvers Space RMX]

quote:

Originally posted by JEO Let's cast our asses into some plast. We're all fucking legend. Pleasure - Selim Bob James - Sign Of The Times MSZ, you're drunk, and so fucking true as it is, so am I. Considering MFB's track, it is rather funky, as 10 % of us whitey's can even tell the difference between funk, soul and jazz, fuck this. And IMO, what comes to saying what is funk soul house or what the fuck. I didn't read the thread. Excuse me, I'm drunk. I mean wtf niggehs (britishly pronounced), funk house or wtf was it? Seriously shit, it ain't even true. I've been waiting for a genre pop-up named something like "house rap", but then I thought; fuck, it's been all over the place from the beginning. Shit so absuurd, niggaaaaaahhh...

this is one of the best posts i have seen in the production studio.

I think mad for brad is going through his cycle where he used up all his "brad" candles that he usually inserts into his anus.

It was quite frankly the highlight of my evening. Shit just flowed from the still functional parts of my brain in to my fingertips.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Bullshit. Early house was about 303s, not moogs. The fact that later commercial house was all about dodgy pseudosoul shouldn't make you tar the rest of the genre with the same brush. Early house was something new, thats why it was awesome. .

we are talking about funky french house dumbass and the guy mentioned quiver because of the moog wobble lead which was being done decades earlier and not by quiver.

quote:

Early house just ripped off those musicians but did it badly with no soul.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad we are talking about funky french house dumbass and the guy mentioned quiver because of the moog wobble lead which was being done decades earlier and not by quiver.

Keep backpedalling.

I'm not riding a bike.

I was asked if my lead was influenced by Quiver to which I said hell no. If anything it was from those funk guys I mentioned that had coined that sound a decade earlier. I'm sorry if I find nothing worthwhile in early EDM except for maybe the tail end of disco with that electro italian disco stuff but that shit quiver makes was the reason I did not listen to EDM as it just sounds really bad, synthetic and soulless to me. Every single innovation regarding electronic music had been explored via other genres except perhaps the over use of the 303 but you want to talk about sound design, production �. all that was being done in other genres in the 80s so no, I don't find this guy a legend what so ever. But then again, some people have lower standards when using the word legend. Quincy Jones is a legend, Quiver is a not.

lol brad u are the typical educated musican. prince, quincy jones. what the hell do you do in a edm-forum? u guys have missed the whole point of edm.

Every musical genre has its golden period and I tend to listen to styles of music when that period is in effect and for me, that period in EDM was from 1999 to 2004. There were alot more interesting things going on in music when EDM first started out which is why I didn't waste my time.

I can go into detail why it sucked if you really want me to. Historically relevant ? sure. So where the sex pistols. They also sucked. I won't deny the cultural relevance but from a musician. producer standpoint, early EDM was just bloody awful. No wonder people were taking so many drugs.

we will never agree on this anyway. too me everything sounded shit after 99. around 94-98 was the best sounding edm imo, both technically, originality, melodies, advanced drum-program and general mood. after 99 only techno was listenable but that got fucked up too. its getting better again now though, so im looking bright on things, theres hope imo. golden age of edm was the 90s though, whether u agree or not, its a fact.

from a cultural aspect , yes, but from a technical and musical aspect, hell no.

and thats why im wondering why you as a trained musician is even interested in edm at all as it is clearly only touching the parameters which defines technical and musical music (most people doesnt even consider edm as music), you should be doing jazz or whatever elitist stuff musicians do. you must be sick of all the simple cheese melodies, the total lack of originality and surprise and the bad general sound. or am i wrong?

I am very well versed in jazz as well as classical. The only area of music that is evolving really is production so it makes perfect sense. EDM is the genre of music that is actually doing something new albeit it is all production but I listen and steal ideas from any source I can and for production, EDM is where it is at. That wasn't the case in 1994 not that I was doing anything production related at that time. If something gets stale, I will jump ship very quick but EDM is still quite innovative although I would say the genres that are pushing the envelope have changed.

A track can have a cheesy melody but some aspect of production which is neat and I can learn from that. Some people are not able to see the good in a track they might hate. I'm able to separate the track from the actual element of the track I find interesting. I think alot of people have this problem. They can't find the good in a track unless they like the track as a whole. They can't listen to a pop song and although it is shit, there is one cool element and you make a mental note. It is about listening to as much music and making notes regarding what you find cool and add that to your bag of tracks.

Here is an example

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bt4H7S0Yc_0

Most will hate this track as it is electro but the production is really fantastic and novel. The trick is to find these gems and then apply all the cool things you like to your music thus developing a style.

Here is another example. This one is dnb. You might hate dnb but there is definitely some incredible things there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0bovUM-X664


More often than not, you will find new interesting ideas outside your genre.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad I'm not riding a bike. I was asked if my lead was influenced by Quiver to which I said hell no. If anything it was from those funk guys I mentioned that had coined that sound a decade earlier. I'm sorry if I find nothing worthwhile in early EDM except for maybe the tail end of disco with that electro italian disco stuff but that shit quiver makes was the reason I did not listen to EDM as it just sounds really bad, synthetic and soulless to me. Every single innovation regarding electronic music had been explored via other genres except perhaps the over use of the 303 but you want to talk about sound design, production �. all that was being done in other genres in the 80s so no, I don't find this guy a legend what so ever. But then again, some people have lower standards when using the word legend. Quincy Jones is a legend, Quiver is a not.

Wasn't debating quivver, I was talking about the fact that you said that early house was shit.

I don't care who influenced your lead. I never commented on it.

I think quivver is awesome, but legend would be a big claim indeed. There are few legends in a genre as young as EDM. Maybe Jeff Mills, Moodyman, Sasha... Not many others at this point.

quote:

Every musical genre has its golden period and I tend to listen to styles of music when that period is in effect and for me, that period in EDM was from 1999 to 2004. There were alot more interesting things going on in music when EDM first started out which is why I didn't waste my time.

You're really showing your ignorance. When EDM first started out would have been mid-late 80s, not late 90s. I don't even understand what you're trying to say considering you then turn around and say that early EDM is shit.

I just wish you'd stop acting as though you have a monopoly on taste around here. Anyway, can't be bothered arguing with you any more, you can't even avoid contradicting yourself. I assume you know what your talking about.

Sampling is key. Combine that with stuttering, glitching, and tape stops, and you can give it a flare of your own style. Don't forget about filtering and phasers.

If you are going to go for a sample based sound, the key to making a good song is your crate digging skills. If the song simply does not have the it factor for house music, then it's just not going to work unless you do heavy revisions yourself.

I'm talking about french house, not USA style house which is pretty foreign to me even though i am USA native.

Funky Space Pirates VS Brown Eyed Girls - Sorry I Don't 1nt 2o by FunkySpacePiratesCDuello

For this song i made, I just used a sample here. [[ LINK REMOVED ]]
and what I was fishing for was housey things I can work with. I pitched up a little, increased the BPM, and beefed up the bass by copying a layer of the linked snippet and adding a lowpass filter with resonance to give it some bottom beef that it was missing. I also EQ'd too, but I forgot which layer I EQ'd to.

Here's how it sounds pitched up with the BPM increased at around 128 if I am not mistaken (been ahwhile since I made this song). [[ LINK REMOVED ]]


Working from there, I just did the cliche old french house tricks of adding 909s and teh sidechain. It was lacking obvious groove though, so I added the bass twang to it that was also sidechained, getting inspiration from the Ed Banger twangs. That twangy bass was also layered with something to give it oomph. And from there, I started the arrangement, the filtering, glitching, muting etc.

Here's another french house influenced thing i made: Brown Eyed Girls - I Got Fooled By You (Funky Space Pirates' House Remix) by FunkySpacePiratesCDuello

And here's the original song for comparison: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IpK5iqXhql0

With this remix, you can easily figure out what i did and what i heard just by listening to the original and the remix. I started from start to end in this one, tried to make a whole song using just a 4 bar loop, but it ended up being a french edit.

So there you go, I think you should keep it simple, let the sample do the work, and just interpret it. Going into this song and remix, I came in going for a fun atmosphere. As you can see, I didn't change the wheel in either song. To me,the key was having a good sample to begin with.

Was I super creative here? No. Did I use overused cliches? YES. For the frnech style house, i feel you have to just come in with a fun attittude. I think that's what a lot of people in this forum is missing out too. Very quickly, people in the MD will just bash a song for not being creative, being full of cliches, etc. Let's not forget you are possibly making music for people who are there to let loose... Just a thought.

Sorry if you guys don't like the Korean pop. I eat that for breakfast--especially the hyper cheesy stuff. Also, sorry if i didn't explain myself well, it's late, just got home and just wanted to share as quickly as possible. Go ahead and post or pm me questions if you have any. Hopefully I was of some help. Be sure to check this out too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yDa7xxL-sMU it's a vid that shows how sampling in house music works.

That's pretty cool advice. I don't really know how comfortable I am with excessive sampling, but I do realize how core it is to the genre. Thanks for the links.

I think you should try to use as much original stuff as possible rather than sampling. You can use the sampling aesthetic on your own stuff but how hard is it to play a 3 string funk chord on a guitar and record it. Or play a rhodes line. I'm only a fan of sampling if it is completely dislodged from its original setting or you sample your self. I also think any producer that has to resort to a loop a hack or just lazy. But these are opinions so whatever.

daft punk earned millions by sampling. the entire goldie timeless album is sampling only. most of prodigys work are sampling. chemical brothers, fatboy slim, armand van helden... practically all succeeded edm-acts is based on sampling. sampling is an artform and people who bash it really misses out. who the fuck cares if its lazy when it sounds great? the narrow minds around here shocks me at times.

did I say sampling is lazy. Learn to ready euroboy.

quote:

I also think any producer that has to resort to a loop a hack or just lazy.

actually i dont really know what u said at all, i just had to assume out of this sentence that you find sampling lame. atleast there negativity (as usual by you) and loop in the same sentence. its enough for me to draw conclusions as ive started to know how you operate.

Well why don't you stop beating of your dog and read before putting words in other people's mouth.

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