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I was always more sensitive to everything when partying.

I don't think that you need to pay much attention to feel the bpm change. I think that a 5 bpm trasition is a big one and people that have been listening to EDM will notice it quite quickly

of course the chin stroking music nerds not dancing notice, but in general the pill heads just keep fist pumping no matter what.

it is amazing what a dj can get away with live...i guarantee you 90% won't even pick up on bad mixing. The proof? People love Tiesto and there are many successful residents that i shall not name that could not mix to save their life. People still dance. I've seen quite a few big djs mix very very badly, and the next day you still see reviews of OMG I DIEEEE TOTA PLUR.

I'm also not talking about during a transition...i'm talking about the average speed of the music at the party. You can play driving music at 125 that has the feel of faster techno without needing 65 pills to dance to it.

for instance a heavy heavy kick with gunshot highs can make a track feel faster than it is.

quote:

Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay for instance a heavy heavy kick with gunshot highs can make a track feel faster than it is.

Thats the trick

To be honest when I used to go to Aria every weekend I never really payed attention to the BPM and I barely paid attention to the mixing. I was there to go crazy and forget everything else in the world for that night. I think people in the crowd that notice bpm changes of +1/-1 are full of it or just not having any fun at all.

quote:

of course the chin stroking music nerds not dancing notice, but in general the pill heads just keep fist pumping no matter what.

That is simply not true, sorry.

It's not so much about one person being able to notice a BPM change or not, but the effect it as on the whole crowd, wether they notice it or not. You can feel the energy shift as a group. And 2 BPMs can change the dynamics even if they don't feel it.

Your job as a DJ is to have a profound understanding of what the crowd can't notice. Sometimes a few BPMs can be the only thing that stands between something that feels totally right or totally wrong.

quote:

Originally posted by Ravemontreal That is simply not true, sorry. It's not so much about one person being able to notice a BPM change or not, but the effect it as on the whole crowd, wether they notice it or not. You can feel the energy shift as a group. And 2 BPMs can change the dynamics even if they don't feel it. Your job as a DJ is to have a profound understanding of what the crowd can't notice.

Very very true. I'm not sure if this theory applie to all EDM styles tho. For instance, trance -1/+1 wont do alot of diff IMO.

Any good artist takes great care to details that their audience will never consciously notice, but will feel the effect of.

quote:

Originally posted by Ravemontreal That is simply not true, sorry. It's not so much about one person being able to notice a BPM change or not, but the effect it as on the whole crowd, wether they notice it or not. You can feel the energy shift as a group. And 2 BPMs can change the dynamics even if they don't feel it. Your job as a DJ is to have a profound understanding of what the crowd can't notice. Sometimes a few BPMs can be the only thing that stands between something that feels totally right or totally wrong.

2 bpms in terms of change don't lose the crowd. this isn't directed at you personally...but i hear this excuse "i played too fast/i played too slow" which 9 times out of 10 = "i played shit music no one liked and can't read a crowd but will never admit it."

give me a break martin...some djs can play the same track 10 times in a night(guess who i am talking about, he is coming on nye?
)...and people don't give a shit if they like it.

i never went out to dance to a certain speed, and it was rare that bpms are what stopped me in my tracks...bad music or shit flow always did.

we both used to go see deep dish, you know what i am talking about

Speaking of flow, Morales (Jan 2nd) sure made me question my definition of it on many occasions. Other times he was just way way off.

quote:

give me a break martin...some djs can play the same track 10 times in a night(guess who i am talking about, he is coming on nye? )...and people don't give a shit if they like it.

Obviously we are not talking about the same thing.

You are talking to me about bad DJs that can't mix, can't flow and play the same track 10 times and people don't care.

I am talking about the perfect set, the perfect pressure point, and a crowd that understand that what you are doing is at another level and appreciate each details about it.

That's what I am for. And hopefully that's what my crowd expect. And on that level, yes 2 bpms makes a difference.

yet people love him like they were obese and he was a double cheeseburger with bacon.

people like to think that djing is this super complicated thing that only a handful of people can do...but most of us who have a clue know that is a bunch of bullshit.

producing is where it is at (and i really suck at it)....many djs like to think that what they do is groundbreaking, when in reality it is one part track selection mixed with one part basic math, and one part (very) simple understanding of music.

i'll break silence and give an example.

robert de la gauthier. he was great for this city, has a good following and played this kind of music in a time when most did not know it existed...at least not like today in the internet age.

here is the kicker: he never knew how to beatmatch...and when people actually called him out for it, the excuse given was, "this ep was made to be played from start to finish with a break in the middle (aka stop the music) and a new track starting as the needle drops. Guess what? Some people still ate that up.

When talking about bpm...i'm going to call all of you out on being full of shit. 1 bpm = one extra kick drum per minute. one kick, just one.

give me a break.

people are way too fucked up and even sober, the nuances of one bpm are hardly noticeable to anyone. again, one kick drum extra per minute.

give me a break.

everyone likes to pretend they are reinventing the wheel, but in reality the backbone of the business has always been drug users (talking afterhours here and agree with me or not in what you write...come on ) and making them give you money in exchange for the fist pump/c walk.

we are talking one extra drum every 60 seconds...i call bullshit.

the most noticeable thing in terms of bpm (and this is only if they aren't mixing 100% digitally..which is hardly mixing..my grandma can do this and she is dead.) is the key change. You might play a track that people happen to know well, that won't sound the same and will be wonky.

If you own a turntable you will understand.

what is killing dance music is dj culture.

omg dj so and so is sooooo omg.

when in reality he can count to 32 and you can too.

i'm drunk, the islanders just scored and i will edit this post with extra sobriety tomorrow.

Jay, you are so far off sometimes, that I don't care to reply.

quote:

Originally posted by Ravemontreal Obviously we are not talking about the same thing. You are talking to me about bad DJs that can't mix, can't flow and play the same track 10 times and people don't care. I am talking about the perfect set, the perfect pressure point, and a crowd that understand that what you are doing is at another level and appreciate each details about it. That's what I am for. And hopefully that's what my crowd expect. And on that level, yes 2 bpms makes a difference.

i've stated that you were a good dj in this thread.

what i have a problem with is with people that think 1 bpm is very noticable...it is the same as the people that say they can tell the difference between wav and 320. I've tested these same people on it, and they failed over 50% of the time. (the biggest notcie is when you edit the tracks). I'd test people for "what bpm is this"...but the reality of computers means that it would not work.

quote:

Originally posted by Ravemontreal Jay, you are so far off sometimes, that I don't care to reply.

i may be, but i say what i think. it is not gospel, but i've been around long enough to know a thing or 2.

you don't have to reply martin...i respect you, but that does not mean that i think you are always right.

It's really not about if I am a good DJ or not, and I really couldn't give more a shit about a BPM debate.

I am just trying to bring you insight on the fact that, over 10 years, and countless hours of playing in front crowds, that a few BPMs does have a more important impact that you think.

Of course if you play like a monkey, BPMs is the least of your problems.

That's my point.

why are the monkeys winning then?

Monkey alert

He couldn't care less about BPMs...

he is still better than blondish...that could not mix water and betty crocker cake mix properly yet still play massives.

offer is a great example to prove my point...he/she/it is loved to death...even if he/she/it is the saddest excuse for a dj out there.

your crowd is not as educated as you think...they want to get fucked up and move their feet...end of story.

You're talking mass popular DJ audiences vs "credible" audiences. People going to Tiesto or Offer shows are as likely to go see Bieber or Gaga. Why focus on them to form your opinion of more solid house artists? I've seen Morales countless times, and he would wear both hats (or track pants, as the case may be) in one night, playing 130 bpm cheesy crap for the peak hours, then a few tracks to scare those people out in the morning, and switch it up for the real heads. He knows how to play the game and still win. Even if he is a total douche.

quote:

Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay why are the monkeys winning then?

What exactly are they winning? You're creating this us vs them bullshit mentality for what? Are you saying Offer is going to come into Circus and take Marin's gigs?

And you don't have to be educated to subconsciously feel the effect of quality.

I think both of you guys are talking about two different things.
Jay your point about BPM makes perfect sense and I call bullshit if someone in the crowd is keeping score of what the BPM is at.
Martin is talking about the subconscious part of the night. A BPM of one or two can play on the atmosphere of the crowd in a very subtle way that only very few people will notice. People on the dancefloor, for a moment, will sometimes snap back into reality and notice something as the DJ is implementing it. The role of the DJ is to make sure people never snap back into reality and to keep them on a journey. Drugs definately help accomplish this but I know it can be experienced without them.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Nacht The role of the DJ is to make sure people never snap back into reality and to keep them on a journey.

This

witty, explain to me what a credible audience is...because to most people doing bookings, a credible audience is one that pays.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Nacht I think both of you guys are talking about two different things. Jay your point about BPM makes perfect sense and I call bullshit if someone in the crowd is keeping score of what the BPM is at. Martin is talking about the subconscious part of the night. A BPM of one or two can play on the atmosphere of the crowd in a very subtle way that only very few people will notice. People on the dancefloor, for a moment, will sometimes snap back into reality and notice something as the DJ is implementing it. The role of the DJ is to make sure people never snap back into reality and to keep them on a journey. Drugs definately help accomplish this but I know it can be experienced without them.

good post.

what i was trying to say is that generally djs like to think the craft is deeper than what it really is...aka playing music for people that want to hear music.

fuck speed (not the drug but fuck the drug too)

fuck deep thinking.

it is mostly 4/4 music that makes people dance. if they aren't dancing, it isn't the speed...if the room is empty it isn't psychological...it is bad music.

quote:

Originally posted by Zyklon_Jay a credible audience is one that pays.

Of course, and that applies no matter who they are paying to see. I meant an audience for artists with more artistic integrity.

Yes it's just house music. But done well it is more than the sum of its parts. Obviously a lot of DJs act like they're God and it's BS. But there are just as many who keep it in perspective. The former just get more attention.

the thing is...defining artist integrity can be a totally subjective issue. Most offer fans want to suck his/her/it dick....we tell them that he/his/her is so bad technically, but they don't give a shit.

i'm amazed i can type right now, go habs go...i'll join in demain

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