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People who need help beatmatching shouldn't be DJ'ing.

quote:

Originally posted by Apeattack "Fun" is an fine reason to manually beatmatch. If you enjoy going through all the steps of beatmatching and you think it adds a theatrical element to your performance, that's great. I don't think anyone is 'wrong' for manually beatmatching. Just keep in mind that most people at a club care about (1) the club atmosphere, (2) song selection, and (3) how a DJ interacts with the crowd. Most people have no idea what the DJ is doing with the equipment and don't want to know. They would have no idea if you hit a sync button or spent the time to manually beatmatch. The current technology allows DJs to skip much of the beatmatching steps. Like I said in an earlier post, I use the sync button to match the tempo and then use pitch bend or the jog wheel to match the phase. I spend a lot of prep time making sure that the beatgrids are correct in Traktor so the songs will sync easily. I predict that DJs who start learning how to DJ now (like me) will be less likely to want to manually beatmatch. I see beatmatching as a relict of the vinyl days when DJs had no choice. These same DJs are in the habit of going through all the steps of beatmatching because they like the way it feels and are used to it, but it isn't necessary now. I do not see manual beatmatching as an integral part of being a DJ and I imagine more and more DJs will have the same opinion as time goes by.

My question is how much automation will you be happy with? When you simply push a button and stand there doing absolutely nothing at all for the entire set?

What happens when they come out with a "auto EQ" button? What are you going to shift your focus to then? Picking the right songs?

And after they come up with a auto "song selector", then what?

Can you see where I'm going with this?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery People who need help beatmatching shouldn't be DJ'ing.

That's just silly.

The crowd DOES NOT CARE what the DJ is doing on stage as long as he/she is entertaining and they like the music. If you chose to spend time manually beatmatching, great! But manually beatmatching certainly is not a requirement for a good DJ.

As you know, to be entertaining a DJ has to know his/her audience and be able to adjust to different crowd situations. Additionally, he/she needs to spend a lot of prep time finding songs that sound 'good' together, and find 'good' transition points. I spend many hours constructing a set before a gig to make sure the entire set has a good flow. Feel free to download my latest mix (beneath this post) to hear how wonderful the sync button works. I spent a lot of time fiddling with different songs, different transition points, and different eq techniques before settling on this mix.

I do not consider myself any less of a DJ than you because you go through all the steps of beatmatching and I hit a sync button to match the tempo. And I don't care if you think of me as less of a DJ. I will know if I am successful on a particular night by looking at the crowd's reaction to my sweet, sweet melodies.

quote:

Originally posted by brucelee6783 My question is how much automation will you be happy with? When you simply push a button and stand there doing absolutely nothing at all for the entire set? What happens when they come out with a "auto EQ" button? What are you going to shift your focus to then? Picking the right songs? And after they come up with a auto "song selector", then what? Can you see where I'm going with this?

I mentioned earlier that I think the DJs' days are numbered. Why pay an error-prone human DJ money when you could have a computer program perfectly mix for free? Instead of paying Armin $100,000 for a 3 hour set, have the computer mix for free and pay $20,000 for a really cool stage performance so the audience will have something to look at.

Eventually, computers will be able to create incredible new songs on the fly by gauging the audience's reaction. This may not happen by 2020, but it will happen well before the end of the century.

Between now and the inevitable future devoid of clumsy, expensive human DJs and producers, technology will make automate the process more and more. You either can embrace it or not. I would never denigrate someone for embracing a technology (or forgoing a technology) that improves performance. I don't care if people use the auto-eq button that will be developed in 2017... I probably will use it myself if it works well.

I understand how it sucks that a skill you spent many hours developing is becoming obsolete, but that is how the world works.

Enjoy your beatmatching!

quote:

Originally posted by Apeattack I mentioned earlier that I think the DJs' days are numbered. Why pay an error-prone human DJ money when you could have a computer program perfectly mix for free? Instead of paying Armin $100,000 for a 3 hour set, have the computer mix for free and pay $20,000 for a really cool stage performance so the audience will have something to look at. Eventually, computers will be able to create incredible new songs on the fly by gauging the audience's reaction. This may not happen by 2020, but it will happen well before the end of the century. Between now and the inevitable future devoid of clumsy, expensive human DJs and producers, technology will make automate the process more and more. You either can embrace it or not. I would never denigrate someone for embracing a technology (or forgoing a technology) that improves performance. I don't care if people use the auto-eq button that will be developed in 2017... I probably will use it myself if it works well. I understand how it sucks that a skill you spent many hours developing is becoming obsolete, but that is how the world works. Enjoy your beatmatching!

If you're so content with machines doing the dj'ing for you...then uhhh...why are you dj'ing?

quote:

Originally posted by brucelee6783 If you're so content with machines doing the dj'ing for you...then uhhh...why are you dj'ing?

I DJ because I enjoy sharing music with friends who don't follow EDM as closely as me, I love 'creating' mixes, and I love performing in front of people.

The futuristic auto-DJing computer programs have not been invented yet. Once the programs are developed and distributed widely, getting a gig will be quite difficult. But until then DJing is a skill that is in demand.

You should read Kurt Vonnegut's "Player Piano." Humans love making devices that make themselves obsolete.

quote:

Originally posted by Apeattack I DJ because I enjoy sharing music with friends who don't follow EDM as closely as me, I love 'creating' mixes, and I love performing in front of people.

Performing? Seems to me like the machines are doing the performing. You're just picking out the songs, basically.

quote:

The futuristic auto-DJing computer programs have not been invented yet. Once the programs are developed and distributed widely, getting a gig will be quite difficult. But until then DJing is a skill that is in demand.

While that may be true, you seem disturbingly indifferent about this.

quote:

You should read Kurt Vonnegut's "Player Piano." Humans love making devices that make themselves obsolete.

Too true. You're living proof.

quote:

Originally posted by brucelee6783 Performing? Seems to me like the machines are doing the performing. You're just picking out the songs, basically.

All EDM DJs pick songs they like and try to mix them into a seemless set that sounds good to them. Sometimes effects are used, but much of the time a DJ is in the booth he/she is not really doing anything substantial. That is, the audience wouldn't notice or care if the DJ did nothing instead of something. You may think the audience is paying attention to every tweak of every knob, but they aren't. (This doesn't apply to every EDM genre, but many of them.)

I do A LOT of prep work to make sure that the transition points, eq'ing, and overall set progression sounds 'good.'

quote:

While that may be true, you seem disturbingly indifferent about this.

I have studied technology's progress through the past 100 years and I am being realistic. What can any of us do to stop the future? Are we supposed to wake up with cold shakes every morning because a task we enjoy performing one day will be done far better by a machine?

Enjoy DJing while your skills are still in demand. Just be fully aware of what will happen eventually.

quote:

Too true. You're living proof.

Is this some sort of put-down? In the larger picture, we are all equally guilty of promoting technologies that make our lives easier. I'm sure you would think it crazy to give up most of our modern conveniences, even though many of them put a lot of people out of job (at some point). Factory robots are one of the most obvious examples.

Again, if you do not want to take advantage of advances in DJing technology, that's fine. But me, and thousands more like me, have NO problem using technology to make our lives easier. I don't feel the slightest bit guilty about my loving relationship with the sync button.

The other day i went to a club prepared to mix in the old 1000 Mk2, unfortunately one of them was broken and was substituted by a Cdj - 100 with no bpm counter.

I'd like to see how someone who is used to use the autosync button deals without bpm counters... i'm happy that sometimes cover my bpm counters and practice without them, if not would have been a big fail.

quote:

Originally posted by Apeattack That's just silly. The crowd DOES NOT CARE what the DJ is doing on stage as long as he/she is entertaining and they like the music. If you chose to spend time manually beatmatching, great! But manually beatmatching certainly is not a requirement for a good DJ. As you know, to be entertaining a DJ has to know his/her audience and be able to adjust to different crowd situations. Additionally, he/she needs to spend a lot of prep time finding songs that sound 'good' together, and find 'good' transition points. I spend many hours constructing a set before a gig to make sure the entire set has a good flow. Feel free to download my latest mix (beneath this post) to hear how wonderful the sync button works. I spent a lot of time fiddling with different songs, different transition points, and different eq techniques before settling on this mix. I do not consider myself any less of a DJ than you because you go through all the steps of beatmatching and I hit a sync button to match the tempo. And I don't care if you think of me as less of a DJ. I will know if I am successful on a particular night by looking at the crowd's reaction to my sweet, sweet melodies.

tl;dr

Original point stands.

Tip:

Cover your BPM readout on your CDJ and do everything by ear. Youll get more out of it in the longrun.

Just spend LOTS of time on it, it comes naturally with practice.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery tl;dr Original point stands.

i kinda agree that if you can't beatmatch, it is sort of like the minimum level of competence a dj should have. ya its about the crowd but come on. IF you can't beat match you have no innate music talent and you probably aren't able to read the crowd anyways.

QFT, again:

5 Reasons Why All DJs Should Learn To Beatmatch By Ear

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad i kinda agree that if you can't beatmatch, it is sort of like the minimum level of competence a dj should have. ya its about the crowd but come on. IF you can't beat match you have no innate music talent and you probably aren't able to read the crowd anyways.

Yeah. It's the same thing with just about anything - gadgets and gimmicks are fine as a spice but not as the main course.

If you rely entirely on technology you might as well slap on a pre-mixed CD and go grab a beer, because at that point you're nothing more than a human jukebox.

clubs are looking for jukeboxes. One of my friends said yesterday that he will record a mix with virtual dj and send to a club owner. I said him

"But here there is no laptop, you need to know how to mix"
"No problem, i'll record a 3 hour set in mp3 and let it play while i turn some knobs, this way i earn money and have free drinks".
"It will be boring if you don't do anything"
"While i've beer nothing can be boring"

This is real believe me, i'm scared that he gets the job.

quote:

Originally posted by Apeattack But me, and thousands more like me, have NO problem using technology to make our lives easier.

I wouldn't be so sure about that. From the replies I'm reading, it would seem like more people prefer manual beatmatching.

quote:

Originally posted by brucelee6783 I wouldn't be so sure about that. From the replies I'm reading, it would seem like more people prefer manual beatmatching.

Give the bloke a break. Horses for courses.
We can't take the responses on this forum for a general ruling on a topic.

That's like believing all those makeup/hairstyling products that say 85% of women agree, and then it has that small line underneath it that says 85% of 33 women agree.

I'll tell you one thing though. I was playing out on saturday night when i arrived i hooked up my DVS system like i always do. With everything hooked up I then hit play on the left cdj, no problems there. Hit play on the right cdj.... nothing. The play button the cdj1000 wasn't working. Tried getting one of the sound guys to take a look but the place was rammed and i couldn't get anyone to help me out.

Anyway, if it wasn't for the fact that I was using my computer (traktor) the guy after me was using ableton and the bloke after him was using vinyl we'd have had a nice problem on our hands.

Of course the power on one of the power blocks went, which i didn't realise and my laptop ran out of battery mid set which was also a nice experience. I had a normal cd on hand though so it literally took 15 seconds till music was back up and playing

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly I'll tell you one thing though. I was playing out on saturday night when i arrived i hooked up my DVS system like i always do. With everything hooked up I then hit play on the left cdj, no problems there. Hit play on the right cdj.... nothing. The play button the cdj1000 wasn't working. Tried getting one of the sound guys to take a look but the place was rammed and i couldn't get anyone to help me out. Of course the power on one of the power blocks went, which i didn't realise and my laptop ran out of battery mid set which was also a nice experience.

I have nightmares about things like this happening. I can only imagine if this had happened mid-set when the dancefloor was packed and the track playing was the keystone track you'd been building up to all night.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery tl;dr Original point stands.

tl;dr

quote:

Originally posted by brucelee6783 I have nightmares about things like this happening. I can only imagine if this had happened mid-set when the dancefloor was packed and the track playing was the keystone track you'd been building up to all night.

It was annoying as while it wasn't a keystone track (as you put it ) It was a nice track that i had been looking forward to playing out.


However i have three cd's with me that have sets on them. One is more of a warm up cd, another is a bouncy tech-housey set and another is a little darker and harder.

I played the second cd which was actually perfect as the crowd were really nice and got straight back into it. I started the computer up again and slowly mixed back in the tracks i wanted to.

To be honest I was kind of happy it happened because it made me go through my 'redundancy plan' and everything worked fine so that's nice to know.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos The other day i went to a club prepared to mix in the old 1000 Mk2, unfortunately one of them was broken and was substituted by a Cdj - 100 with no bpm counter. I'd like to see how someone who is used to use the autosync button deals without bpm counters... i'm happy that sometimes cover my bpm counters and practice without them, if not would have been a big fail.

This situation arose because there still is a lot of very outdated equipment out there. In 5-10 years all DJ equipment will have the auto-sync feature.

In 2010, perhaps there is some benefit of being able to manually beatmatch because occasionally a situation like the one you described may come up. But in 2015 I doubt DJs will need to worry about it.

Btw, I would not have had a problem because I would have brought my Numark Omni Control + laptop.

quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos clubs are looking for jukeboxes. One of my friends said yesterday that he will record a mix with virtual dj and send to a club owner. I said him "But here there is no laptop, you need to know how to mix" "No problem, i'll record a 3 hour set in mp3 and let it play while i turn some knobs, this way i earn money and have free drinks". "It will be boring if you don't do anything" "While i've beer nothing can be boring" This is real believe me, i'm scared that he gets the job.

If the audience is happy, I don't know if it REALLY matters if a set is pre-recorded or not. I would never prerecord and pretend to mix because it still doesn't 'feel' right to me, but I am unsure if prerecording is 'wrong' if the finished product is at least as good as what a DJ could do live.

I know this sounds blasphemous to most of you, but this IS the future. All of us, manual and non-manual beatmatchers, must deal with it.

The major downside of prerecording is that a DJ cannot adjust his set if the crowd is not into the music, but I wonder how often most DJs adjust their sets significantly in practice.

quote:

Originally posted by brucelee6783 I wouldn't be so sure about that. From the replies I'm reading, it would seem like more people prefer manual beatmatching.

I'm not surprised that on a forum dedicated to DJing that many people are passionate about the need for manual beatmatching. Right now, most DJs have been DJing for years and are used to manually beatmatching because they had to. Being able to manually beatmatch used to be a valuable skill that club owners were willing to pay a lot of money for. Now that skill is worth a LOT less and will one day be worth nothing as sync'ing technology becomes better and more widespread.

My posts are regarding the near- and far-future of DJing. What I stated in the above posts is inevitable. The sooner you realize this the less frustrated you will be in the years ahead when DJs who use a lot more auto-features than I do will be willing to DJ for far less money than you think your skills are worth.

I want to stress again that I do not think manual beatmatching is silly or a waste of time. If you enjoy it, do it. At the very least the beginning DJ who practices manual beatmatching will get into the habit of listening for patterns in music and beat-counting while learning a skill that may occasionally come in handy (in the next couple years). But in the near-future I predict that most young DJs will see auto-sync'ing as normal and completely acceptable. There is a reason why a sync button was invented... there is a demand for it.

playing a pre-recorded ser is not only inmoral but also won't work. You can read the crowd better or worst but you even unconscious get information from them and act so.

I imagine my friend who likes electro a lot playing some underground tracks in a row and people leaving the venue screaming, if he hasn't got it pre-recorded is easy, you think "this is not working, try other thing".

Not to mention that it's very likely to happen something and people will see he is fake, i've seen this happening a lot of times, people who have very little idea of djing, maybe their first time and the music is gone but they keep dancing with their headphones on. Or you se how the tracks are getting mixed while he is at the bathroom.

This even for the people who know almost nothing of djing looks so unprofessional and only deserve people spits.

Using the autosync button is simply not for me, first of all because i don't trust on it, but mostly because for me djing is a hobby and if i have little to do/worry becomes boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Apeattack tl;dr

Kinda like the manual on your decks and mixer?

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