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-- Waves Announces Permanent Price Reductions
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Originally posted by DJ RANN That's not right AFAIK - the PC versions of the waves stuff have been around for years.

Team air released all the latest plugs at christmas, don't think any of the other bundle's that were previously cracked worked on windows 7.

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Originally posted by Kismet7 Waves plugins have been cracked for years, so why would they lower prices because of being cracked recently?

Well if that was the case, why did they bother with the dongle protection?? I do believe the price drop is down to it being cracked.

Sorry... N00b question... What's the difference between Native & TDM?

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Originally posted by DjWoody Sorry... N00b question... What's the difference between Native & TDM?

just protool's nonsense, don't bother yourself with it.

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Originally posted by DjWoody Sorry... N00b question... What's the difference between Native & TDM?

Native plugins (e.g., VST, DX) use the computer's processor. TDM is a proprietary format that is used by ProTools' hardware.

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Originally posted by DjWoody Oh nice! I've been wanting to buy the Renaissance package.

That's my favorite Waves bundle. I can't recall the last project of mine that didn't use RenChannel - it's been my go-to channel strip for years. The reverb, compressor, de-esser, and EQ are good bread-n-butter plugs as well. At $262 (+ iLok), it's a great deal and will serve you well IMO.

Awesome! I'm going to NAMM, so I'll wait until after to make the purchase. Hehehe

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Originally posted by cryophonik That's my favorite Waves bundle. I can't recall the last project of mine that didn't use RenChannel - it's been my go-to channel strip for years. The reverb, compressor, de-esser, and EQ are good bread-n-butter plugs as well. At $262 (+ iLok), it's a great deal and will serve you well IMO.

One VERY respected score engineer (based out of one of, if not the top, recording studio on earth) uses that on every project on multiple channels. In fact last time I assisted him, he said what you just posted virtually word for word. He was kind of embaressed to admit it, like he should be doing more especially as he can request anything he wants for the mixdowns but ot just does what he needs.

Re: Waves Announces Permanent Price Reductions

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Originally posted by cryophonik Either hell froze over, or pirating and the bad economy has taken its toll on their sales: Waves Price Reductions

Or U-Audio is continuing to kick their ass. All Waves has been able to do is keep up with a year or so lag time.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN One VERY respected score engineer (based out of one of, if not the top, recording studio on earth) uses that on every project on multiple channels. In fact last time I assisted him, he said what you just posted virtually word for word. He was kind of embaressed to admit it, like he should be doing more especially as he can request anything he wants for the mixdowns but ot just does what he needs.

Wow - I feel sorta cool now!

Have you tried it RANN?

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Originally posted by DJ RANN That's not right AFAIK - the PC versions of the waves stuff have been around for years. Shit, I remember in school many moons ago cracks of waves stuff floating about for PC. I thought the mac crack was the big deal as they somehow got around the ilok issue - potentially it opens up the doors to a lot of software that was ilok only and no one had properly crakced it (without time resets and little snitch etc.). As for pro studios using cracks - I actually have yet to be a pro studio (and I'm talking very serious ones) whwre they don't have at least one thing that it cracked. They don't fuck about with the big stuff like waves but sometimes the little plugs (cracks) find their way in to the mix.

Nah, the previous version was the mercury version 5 from several years ago. Mercury 7 was cracked for mac a few months ago, cracked for PC some time in the last month or so I guess. I'd say that they've finally realised that in the pro arena, there are many others who are offering better products cheaper, and in the amateur arena, they're only making themselves a target by jacking up their prices so much. Noobs who want to get cracked software will always assume that more expensive = better, so they'll always go for waves cracks. But people who actually know their stuff will steer clear because they don't represent good value.

I don't know a lot about the whole warez scene, but I'm led to believe that crackers are highly attracted to more expensive software. Waves needs to stop trying to position themselves as exclusive because everyone knows its not true and its only costing them money. They should do what microsoft have started doing and give away cut down versions of their software to educational institutions and students, then charge a smaller price for everyone else, to try and gain as much market share as possible.

Also, anyone who's claiming that they ARE good value is dreaming. Waves completely destroyed their reputation and appeal with the whole WUP fiasco when they introduced the mercury bundle. They WOULD have been good value if they'd stuck to their promises and justified the investments lots of people made in the platinum and diamond bundles, but they wriggled around their obligations and now no one will touch them.

I've actually purchased the API Bundle Oct. last year (bought the HW unit the other day) My opinion is that one should not use cracked software non stop, consider:

- How would you feel, your IP being ripped of the internet?
- Developers have families, it's a job
- Would u want to be recognized based upon working with stolen goods?
- Would you like to be fired because no one buys your product?
- If you talk about all the others who offer for donationware, please use them (Don't Crack - KVR etc)
- If you find value in premium products, BUY THEM
- people who use cracks, have no respect for the product,because if you had, you would have bought it.

You can post the greatest tracks on here, but all your credit and my respect goes away immediately once people know it's done with stolen goods. Producing on cracked goods, makes you a spineless sorry ass producer.

AIR and H2O have been around for ages, spend 15 mins on the piratebay or rapidshare and one can have a fully loaded daw for "free"

For me, this discussion is not about what one can get away with, but about where you stand in life as a person and treating others as you would like to be treated.

I purchased the Waves gold bundle a few years back at full price. I'm also not a fan of the Waves Update Plan, paying them a few hundred dollars each year to stay on top of the upgrades. I'll pay for the upgrades when I need them.

However, my iLok stopped working a while back and I had to send it off to get replaced. It took a few weeks, then I had to go through the hassles of transferring my licenses to the new dongle. I didn't want to stop producing for a few weeks while the iLok was being replaced, so I grabbed a cracked Mercury bundle at that stage. It annoyed me that the pirates got software which wasn't at the mercy of a broken dongle, and I had to go without, despite paying a chunk of money.

So now I don't have to worry about the iLok. However, I do only use the gold bundle plugins. The other plugins are fun to try out here and there, but they don't get used in any of my productions. I only use the tools I've paid for.

In terms of the Waves price drop, it had to happen sooner or later. They've been offering almost permanent discounts the last few years. There are a number of other companies offering excellent plugins at competitive prices, it was kind of hard to see why the Waves plugins should cost so much.

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Originally posted by derail In terms of the Waves price drop, it had to happen sooner or later. They've been offering almost permanent discounts the last few years.

Yeah, I was actually wondering what would happen with prices at some of the discounters, like Florida Music Company. They've been selling Waves bundles for far less than the competition's MAP (yes, legitimately) for years now, so I was wondering if their prices would go even lower. But, I took a quick glance through their website earlier today and it looked like they're currently selling them at the same prices as Sweetwater, GC, musiciansfriend, etc.

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Originally posted by Raphie I've actually purchased the API Bundle Oct. last year (bought the HW unit the other day) My opinion is that one should not use cracked software non stop, consider: - How would you feel, your IP being ripped of the internet? - Developers have families, it's a job - Would u want to be recognized based upon working with stolen goods? - Would you like to be fired because no one buys your product? - If you talk about all the others who offer for donationware, please use them (Don't Crack - KVR etc) - If you find value in premium products, BUY THEM - people who use cracks, have no respect for the product,because if you had, you would have bought it. You can post the greatest tracks on here, but all your credit and my respect goes away immediately once people know it's done with stolen goods. Producing on cracked goods, makes you a spineless sorry ass producer. AIR and H2O have been around for ages, spend 15 mins on the piratebay or rapidshare and one can have a fully loaded daw for "free" For me, this discussion is not about what one can get away with, but about where you stand in life as a person and treating others as you would like to be treated.

Its easy to state the moral high ground but can you honestly tell me that you've never copied a cd from someone, watched a movie you didn't buy or downloaded a single track you didn't pay for? My earliest memory of doing this was probably about 20 odd years ago sticking a cassette of double dragon for the spectrum into my hifi and copying it.

Its the same thing, we've all done it in one way or another.

Of course anybody has done that, however, most people, as soon as they hit their twenties or so see the light.

On the other hand, there's loads of top 100 (and other well-respected) dj's/producers working with cracked copies. Glad I'm not one of them though in that sense.

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Originally posted by Storyteller Of course anybody has done that, however, most people, as soon as they hit their twenties or so see the light. On the other hand, there's loads of top 100 (and other well-respected) dj's/producers working with cracked copies. Glad I'm not one of them though in that sense.

Yeah Leon Bolier was caught out on his youtube video with a cracked copy of sylenth, he has however bought a licence since it was pointed out

Re: Re: Waves Announces Permanent Price Reductions

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Originally posted by alanz o Or U-Audio is continuing to kick their ass. All Waves has been able to do is keep up with a year or so lag time.

Have to disagree. most major studios will have waves before UAD. UAD's niche is the almost pro amateur which is probably the best market with the most people willing to spend money on something that seems tangible ie UAD and that fucking dongle but waves has some great plugins. I mean the C4 which has been updated but that plugin is something that any engineer of value will use at some point somewhere. It has still yet to be surpassed. Even just the old plugins like the Renaissance plugins do what they are supposed to do .

UAD is all fine and dandy but the dongle just cripples the amount of plugins you can run and that is fucking lame for people that actually pay.

I remember owning the powercore version of sonnox which at the time was actually by Sony and I remember running the native version and it took less CPU. I am really skeptical that the actual UAD plugins really need those obsolete cards that just add latency.

correct UAD is antique and nothing more than a capacity limited dongle

it would be interesting if they actually tried to implement cuda. That would actually make a dent in processing. But those 10 year old video cards are useless. I used to have 4 UAd cards years ago when they first came out and 2 powercore cards. The plugins are nice but the cards just don't make sense this day and age. 7 years ago, they probably helped but I doubt they make much of a dent.

I ditched the cards when I stopped producing around 2004 and started doing more composition stuff and although the plugins are great, the latency was always a big issue with me. I still have my powercore carsd in my pc which I don't use or turned on in the last 8 months fully loaded with the virus the m5000 mastering suite, the vss3 reverb which I think was an algorithm from the m6000 along with the vintage verb and that non linear verb I forget what its called. About 10 000$ of shit in a pc I don't use anymore. I suppose I could sell it but I just couldn't be bothered.

I just wish they would make it native so I could use it on my mac. Those cards are fucking useless. I suppose powercore is almost caput but still.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Exactly. The mac crack coming out has a big deal to do with this I think. Maybe not so much with the smaller ones but the Mercury, Horizon and Diamond for sure. Don't forget the Mercury bundle is over $6k before tax. You also have to factor in that a lot of people who may have bought the smaller packages or individual plugs could get the big ones for free now. Don't get me wrong, I think some of the piracy has helped them as a introduction to their software but I think the reduction of costs is directly linked to the mac version finally being cracked. It may also be a move to cash in on new project studios based around native PTHD systems - by lowering their pricing they are making themselves a viable option for lower budget studios.

It's nothing to do with piracy, Waves simply sucks for the price they ask. Their is for example a company that sells a SSL compressor for only $99 that is superior to both waves and UAD. Sometimes I even prefer the stock logic compressor.

But there are new guy in town that nailed a very popular hardware compressor, waves & uad are getting very hard competition now.

Waves probably liked the sales when they offfered 40% discount, that they are keeping this price point.

Considering the level of support you get, their plugins are reasonably priced. There is also the indirect cost of piracy. Ie if someone with a similar product but doesn't have the protection the big plugins have, they get cracked so they are forced to lower their prices which causes pressure on other companies to sell their wares less than they are worth. A great example is fabfilter. Fantastic plugin, unfortunately cracked and I know for a fact piracy has affected the company as when they are cracked, sales go down a significant percentage. That isn't random. IT is quite obvious and i've heard this from the horses mouth.

If it isn't piracy, i find the sale rather convenient that it coincides with the plugins being cracked for pc. That to me is a little too convenient.

I don't have an issue with capacity limitations. I do have a UAD-2 Quad, though. With the amount of plugins I put on it, my current track has it at 85%, I'm sure my CPU would be maxed out.

And the quality of the plugins is amazing. I don't know if the fact that they're optomized to run on their proprietary CPUs has anything to do with it, but I'm sure it does.

I remember people thinking the lexicon reverb was too cpu intensive to ever be made native. Well that turned out to be complete bullshit. The waves plugins are probably as CPU intensive as the UAD plugins and they really aren't that intensive for any modern computer.

I think they exaggerate the CPU saving component. Yes the plugins are great and I dont think anyone would disagree but that fucking dongle.

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad I think they exaggerate the CPU saving component. Yes the plugins are great and I dont think anyone would disagree but that fucking dongle.

Waves uses a dongle, too, you know. I guess their dongle isn't $1,500, though. (the UAD-2 Quad is $1,500 retail).

Dongle aside, most of the time, Waves only plays catch up with UAD. Whether or not they do just as good a job is debatable. Their plugins were awful until they started releasing emulations of the same hardware that U-Audio had emulated years before.

And let's not forget the Waves LA-2A emulation. U-Audio literally invented that hardware a few decades ago.

Edit:
What I'm saying is that U Audio are innovators and Waves are copiers. Kinda like Google vs Microsoft or Apple vs Microsoft.

Re: Re: Re: Waves Announces Permanent Price Reductions

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Originally posted by Mad for Brad Have to disagree. most major studios will have waves before UAD. UAD's niche is the almost pro amateur which is probably the best market with the most people willing to spend money on something that seems tangible ie UAD and that fucking dongle but waves has some great plugins. I mean the C4 which has been updated but that plugin is something that any engineer of value will use at some point somewhere. It has still yet to be surpassed. Even just the old plugins like the Renaissance plugins do what they are supposed to do . UAD is all fine and dandy but the dongle just cripples the amount of plugins you can run and that is fucking lame for people that actually pay.

Absoluteley true - to be honest I can't think of a major studio I've been in that has UAD plugins but I can name half a dozen I've been to that have large waves bundles.

My whole feeling about UAD and Powercore were that apart from maybe when processing power was not up to task many years ago, the hardware component has been nothing but copy protection.

The powercore Virus was a prime example of this. I know for a fact the virus could have been easily run as a VST or AU in terms of resources, but Access didn't want to go the way of waldorf (i.e. bust through a staggering drop in hardware sales from cracked software versions that sounded nearly identical). They have never made a SW version of the virus for this reason, and won't until hardware sales drop off to the point it no longer makes sense.


The ilok thing (altogether) makes me insane and as per derail, I've seen a lot of pro engineers go out and get the crack version of the bundle because of dongle bullshit like their failing or weird license issues/malfunctions.

We had a nightmare at the studio once because the dongle stopped working mid way through the biggest film project that year. We were having to run back and forward between the two tracking/mix rooms and bouncing/printing with the FX in each room, all because all the plugin manufactures have their own procedure for replacing licences. Fucking nightmare. The only way to safeguard against this crap is that Ilok do this management thing where you can manage all the licenses but it's a monthly or annual fee which is a pisstake considering you have to use their dongle in the first place just for the shit to work.

I do agree that UA were the first to really carve a niche in terms of great hardware emulation, but that's kind of like saying they were the first copiers, so who really cares if other companies also started doing it?

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