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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* How much would it cost for you to fly me from Toronto to Windsor? (Whitby to Windsor would be even better, but I could deal with Toronto).

Ive never flown to windsor before, but i estimate that it takes about 2.5 to 3 hours from brampton. I dont have the numbers with me right now, so i cant tell you exactly. All my equipment is in my locker at work. Anyways, going by $150 per hr, it will cost roughly 450 to 500 for the entire flight. Fuel price not included If your rich, then lets go... lol

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Originally posted by malek If you ever come to Montreal let me know, I want to do some aerial photography. Can windows be opened to let a lense through?

yeh the window can be opened. but you will have to sit in the front seat, and there isnt alot of room between the window and the frame, so bring a small camera.

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Originally posted by failsafe http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RayMaswju1A To get to those level of jobs in Canada you're investing about 60k of your own money into training, which takes usually 2-3 years to complete. After which you'll work within the industry making almost certainly less than 15k for the next 3-7 years. And after your 60k investment and time suffering in pickle lake you'll start there in hopes of making it to an airline. 2-8 years at a job like that, and you'll be considered by airlines like Air Canada or WestJet. When I interviewed with Air Canada they were hiring 1/3 of interviewees. So after your decade of trying to pay off your 60k of debt while working well below the poverty line, you're looking at a 1/3 shot of getting a job that you want. If you fail at the interviews then you can write off the decade and a half you just spent getting there. It's a tough row to hoe.

Right on! I just wish pilots can stop accepting low salary jobs, maybe that will help the situation. That is my only pet peeve.

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Originally posted by djshan Right on! I just wish pilots can stop accepting low salary jobs, maybe that will help the situation. That is my only pet peeve.

yeah, but at least they can say they are a real pilot... that line works with chicks, no?

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Originally posted by djshan Ive never flown to windsor before, but i estimate that it takes about 2.5 to 3 hours from brampton. I dont have the numbers with me right now, so i cant tell you exactly. All my equipment is in my locker at work. Anyways, going by $150 per hr, it will cost roughly 450 to 500 for the entire flight. Fuel price not included If your rich, then lets go... lol

I've looked into flight from Windsor airport to Toronto before and that sounds about right $400-$500. I'm told it's only 45 minutes, but that could be at altitude.

I didn't know if your rates would be cheaper. Not cheap enough for a student like me to afford right now! lol

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Originally posted by djshan Right on! I just wish pilots can stop accepting low salary jobs, maybe that will help the situation. That is my only pet peeve.

High Salary jobs don't exist at the entry level. You of all people should know this. How much are you making a year instructing? Somewhere well below the poverty line. It's kind of funny to point the finger at other people, while doing the same thing yourself.

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Originally posted by failsafe It's kind of funny to point the finger at other people, while doing the same thing yourself.

I was called twice from two different companies. I turned down their offers. One wanted me to be a "volunteer"... the other one was not paying according to my needs (24 k). The reason Im instructing at 25/hr is for a few reasons. 1. I have my own work schedule. 2. It looks good on resume. 3. I have a passion to teach. 4. Im able to work other jobs on the side without any hassles from my boss. 5. And in addition to teaching, I get to build flight time (PIC). With instructing included with my other 2 businesses, i bring in $75,000/yr approximately. And i dont work on the ramp btw, that is not why i got a pilots license.

I beleive there are alot of good pilots out there who deserve to get paid more. This job is not mickey mouse, its a hard and stressful job, but also fun at the same time. If there was a less supply of pilots, then it would be easy to turn down low paying jobs. Theres more pilots than the number of jobs, and airlines know that. It doesnt make difference to them if you say no to their low offer. The gas prices are high, airlines need to make $$... Since there are alot of pilots, what would you do if you were an airline and wanted to make money? And dont get me wrong, I dont hate airlines. Sometimes i want to blame the gas prices for all the mess.

Unforunately, we are forced to accept low salary jobs becuase we get to fly!! I am expecting to take a pay cut as i advance up the career ladder. The good thing is, that the salary goes up after some time.

If i was harsh, I apoligize. but someones gotta so something. maybe its the fuel prices?

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Originally posted by Yohan yeah, but at least they can say they are a real pilot... that line works with chicks, no?

Some guys do it just so they can get chicks, they dont have any passion with aviation. So it all depends. haha... It never worked with me so far... All i heard was, " wow thats awseome " ... and that was all.

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* I've looked into flight from Windsor airport to Toronto before and that sounds about right $400-$500. I'm told it's only 45 minutes, but that could be at altitude. I didn't know if your rates would be cheaper. Not cheap enough for a student like me to afford right now! lol

The way it works with me is that you pay hourly rate. The billing starts when the engine starts, and the billing ends when the engine is shutdown after arriving. So if the engine runs for 3 hours, then you pay for 3 hours. Im sure its cheaper to fly on air canada to windsor from toronto, and it takes 45 minutes because of the type of aircraft and its speed. The aircraft i want to take is slow, lol. The flights i was suggesting in my original post was just local 1 to 2 hour flights.... for example, flying over downtown toronto or niagra falls....etc.

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Originally posted by djshan The way it works with me is that you pay hourly rate. The billing starts when the engine starts, and the billing ends when the engine is shutdown after arriving. So if the engine runs for 3 hours, then you pay for 3 hours. Im sure its cheaper to fly on air canada to windsor from toronto, and it takes 45 minutes because of the type of aircraft and its speed. The aircraft i want to take is slow, lol. The flights i was suggesting in my original post was just local 1 to 2 hour flights.... for example, flying over downtown toronto or niagra falls....etc.

Ahhh, I see. I think I'll opt for the VIA Train (though still pricey!) for travel btwn Windsor and Toronto. And I'll keep you in mind if I want a leisurely flight in a smaller plane.

Dude it's better that pilots make shit wages at the beginning. It weeds out all of the ppl who aren't passionate about flying...

And don't talk down about rampies...

There are A LOT of pilots who filled in their time and pay-cheques with ramp jobs...

With-out rampies, the aviation industry doesn't exist...

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Originally posted by VDub Dude it's better that pilots make shit wages at the beginning. It weeds out all of the ppl who aren't passionate about flying... And don't talk down about rampies... There are A LOT of pilots who filled in their time and pay-cheques with ramp jobs... With-out rampies, the aviation industry doesn't exist...

Ugh..

If people are not passionate about flying, they hardly make it past their private pilot license (its a prerequisite for CPL). Im sure that someone with a CPL who spent $60,000 + for their training is "passionate". Who would spend that much money on something they arent passionate about??

I dont know if you have watched the show "ice pilots" on history tv. I cant remember her name but there is this pilot who joined the company that requires people to work the ramp before they get to sit in the cockpit. She admitted that she doesnt want to be a "rampie", she wants to fly. She left quebec and went up north in hopes of getting a pilot job.

I have nothing against rampies. They all do a great job. But, if you worked hard to become a pilot, you deserve to be a pilot, not a rampie. Also, i believe that as a pilot you are a professional, and should be treated as such, not the other way around. Pilots working ramp is just another example of what i mean when i say " pilots have to do whatever it takes to get that job". I agree to some extent, but I cant stand here and see some get mistreated....

This topic about salary is sensitive to some, so im not going to keep going on about it. My advice to anyone who wants to fly, just make sure you understand what you need to go through. Failsafe is ahead of me, has more experience than me. Therefore, I cant speak about everything about the industry, I can only tell you what ive learned up to now. Aviation is an industry of continous learning, where learning never stops until you retire.... even then, there is always something you dont know!!

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Originally posted by *~LiSa-LoO~* Ahhh, I see. I think I'll opt for the VIA Train (though still pricey!) for travel btwn Windsor and Toronto. And I'll keep you in mind if I want a leisurely flight in a smaller plane.

Haha. How much is the train? let me know anytime when you like to go. cheers!

p.s. i dont think we met yet... you going to pvd??

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Originally posted by VDub Dude it's better that pilots make shit wages at the beginning. It weeds out all of the ppl who aren't passionate about flying...

what a dumb dumb argument... geez replace pilots/flying with any other job/verb and it wouldn't make any sense... why does it make any with you and pilots???

The title of this thread sounds like a roll call for a Sunday CZ trip...

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Originally posted by malek what a dumb dumb argument... geez replace pilots/flying with any other job/verb and it wouldn't make any sense... why does it make any with you and pilots???

Compare your pilot to any other worker the next time you and a couple hundred ppl decide to defy gravity in a 300 ton hunk of steel...

If you're not absolutely passionate and dedicated to flying and are not willing to go through any amount of crap to get certified, you have no business flying...

quote:

Originally posted by djshan I was called twice from two different companies. I turned down their offers. One wanted me to be a "volunteer"... the other one was not paying according to my needs (24 k). The reason Im instructing at 25/hr is for a few reasons. 1. I have my own work schedule. 2. It looks good on resume. 3. I have a passion to teach. 4. Im able to work other jobs on the side without any hassles from my boss. 5. And in addition to teaching, I get to build flight time (PIC). With instructing included with my other 2 businesses, i bring in $75,000/yr approximately. And i dont work on the ramp btw, that is not why i got a pilots license. I beleive there are alot of good pilots out there who deserve to get paid more. This job is not mickey mouse, its a hard and stressful job, but also fun at the same time. If there was a less supply of pilots, then it would be easy to turn down low paying jobs. Theres more pilots than the number of jobs, and airlines know that. It doesnt make difference to them if you say no to their low offer. The gas prices are high, airlines need to make $$... Since there are alot of pilots, what would you do if you were an airline and wanted to make money? And dont get me wrong, I dont hate airlines. Sometimes i want to blame the gas prices for all the mess. Unforunately, we are forced to accept low salary jobs becuase we get to fly!! I am expecting to take a pay cut as i advance up the career ladder. The good thing is, that the salary goes up after some time. If i was harsh, I apoligize. but someones gotta so something. maybe its the fuel prices?

djshan: There's one supremely important aspect that I don't think you've grasped here. You're entire pre-airline career is a race. It's a race to acquire the right skill set, contacts, and flight time to become an interview candidate for the airlines. This might sound silly, or over dramatic but if anything it's an understatement. Your ENTIRE airline career will be determined by the age you're hired at. It will determine when you get your captain's upgrade, it will determine how many years you're stuck working every weekend and every holiday. It will determine vacation, routes flown, and to an immense extent your career earnings.

So while I see your naive distaste for ramp jobs, they can provide you to a fast track for your airline career. I'll use my own life as an example. I too started out as an instructor, also one who turned up their nose at ramp work. One day after about 8 months of Instructing I talked to a friend in Pickle Lake. That friend I had discounted as being stupid for taking a ramp job 8 months prior when we both graduated school. After all, I was flying, and he was freezing his balls of loading freight. Well it turns out that in his first 6 weeks of flying after the 8 month wait, he'd already logged more time than I had in 8 months. Infact, nearly all the guys up in Pickle on the Caravan were doing 1200hrs in 11 months and timing out with a month left in the year. It took me about a month to get my head around that. A month later I was in my Toyota Corolla headed up highway 599 to Pickle Lake. I worked the ramp, and it opened doors to me that will take years more for you to open. To give you a sense of how much it sped things up. One of my class 1 instructors and assistant CFI's at the flight school I worked at had started there 4 years prior to my start at instructing. I arrived at Air Canada a few months before he did. There were 2 others who I instructed with there too that work at AC now. They had a 2 and 3 year jump on me instructing, and I arrived at AC a few months after the 2 year head start and 1 year after the 3 year head start.

All that said, the north just might not be right for you. I certainly saw my share of cream puff city boys come up and then leave a few weeks later. It's not an easy life up there, and that's precisely why it's a short cut. If it was easy everyone would do it, and there wouldn't be the same opportunities. I did eventually make it back down south. Prior to Air Canada I was a Check captain and sim instructor at Air Georgian. I also sat on the hiring board for some interviews there too. Again and again, I saw the same story repeated with the interview candidates and resumes there. The guys who were coming back down south from the north were about 2-3 years younger than people who had stayed down in toronto.

To give you an idea of how much money that equates to. You'd be lucky to make 25k/year instructing in the GTA. So 2 years at 25k = 50k earned. A senior 777 captain at Air Canada in the last 2-3 years of his 30 career is making about 240k/year. So 2 years at 240k/year = 480k - 50k instructing = 430k ahead. When the math is presented like that it's pretty sobering. You may think that you're taking the high road, but you're really just screwing yourself. That calculation doesn't take into account the accrued career earnings as you'd always been on higher paying types 2 years ahead of the other guy. In reality that figure could very realistically be closer to a million bucks over a career.

Anyway good luck with things. Your first 5-10 years in the industry are going to suck terribly. If you make it to the airlines you'll be handsomely rewarded for your suffering though.

Failsafe you're flying for AC now??

What are you on??

Half of my family is involved with that company...

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Originally posted by VDub Failsafe you're flying for AC now?? What are you on?? Half of my family is involved with that company...

Embraer FO in YYZ

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Originally posted by failsafe Embraer FO in YYZ

Sent you a pm...

quote:

Originally posted by VDub Compare your pilot to any other worker the next time you and a couple hundred ppl decide to defy gravity in a 300 ton hunk of steel... If you're not absolutely passionate and dedicated to flying and are not willing to go through any amount of crap to get certified, you have no business flying...

reason to pay more, attract and keep talent.

Ever wondered why doctors are paid so much?

Failsafe, i promise i will reply to your post in a day or two. Right now im tired.

* comment below not directed at failsafe,

Today I was wondering if doctors have to become janitors prior to getting a job as a doctor. Maybe, to show passion of being a doctor, becoming a janitor at the doctors office might be a stepping stone??

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Originally posted by malek reason to pay more, attract and keep talent. Ever wondered why doctors are paid so much?

Ask a doctor how much they get paid when they graduate and how much shit they have to endure until they get a residency...

I'd say doctors and pilots have to go through similar trying challenges before they hit the gravy...

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Originally posted by djshan Failsafe, i promise i will reply to your post in a day or two. Right now im tired. * comment below not directed at failsafe, Today I was wondering if doctors have to become janitors prior to getting a job as a doctor. Maybe, to show passion of being a doctor, becoming a janitor at the doctors office might be a stepping stone??

Wow dude...

That's a pretty snobby attitude for someone who has to ask ppl to pay for his hours...

Good luck with your flying career...

I'm sure Air Canada will come knocking real soon...

I just saw this thread now, I would LOVE to go up for a couple of hours!!!! Sounds like a great way to spend a Sat afternoon.

Question, I would love to bring my girl and baby boy but is that possible? Can a infant go up? Are there any safety concerns? They just flew to Van so I know he can fly, but I mean in a small aircraft like this?

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