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-- Are there any dance tunes that use a different time sig for the break?(like 5/4, 3/4)
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quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos Dubstep and DnB use different structures over the 4/4, you can find 6/8 percussions for example

Feel free to prove me wrong, but no you can't.

Its a complete myth that breaks/dubstep/broken beat in general is in anything other than 4/4 and it just shows ignorance when people say it is.

quote:

Originally posted by alanzo Pretty much all popular music, including "underground" music like EDM, is done in 4/4. The human sub-conciousness is trained to expect music in patterns of four. Four beats per bar, four bars per transition. BT made a really cool track that transitions from one time signature to another. Dynamic Symmetry on This Binary Universe. It made for an awesome effect and it really throws off the listener. BUT, being thrown off when you're in a club is not something that normally works well. But I'm sure it can be done. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f7JiCZvJh5Q I believe it goes from 3/3 to 4/4 at 8:36. Really awesome. But keep in mind that this entire album is more art than music (IMO).

Its just swing in that track making it sound different I think... Some of the hihat lines are swung between the two sections, you can hear it more clearly at 9.30 when the normal rhythm comes back in. He's just been very clever with how he presents things, because the hats that create the percussion bed are actually doing some strange swingy things, but the actual kick and snare carrying the rhythm is the same the whole way through, in 4/4.

Western humans might be trained to listen to 4/4 in the 21st century, but as M4B said, other cultures at other times have done lots of different rhythmic things.

Time signature is a tool and highly interpretable, its not the fixed in stone thing that everyone thinks it is. Whether you set your master time signature in your DAW to 8/12 or 4/4, you can get similar results because of other factors like swing and programming in triplets, not to mention doing things like offsetting the notes in your sequencer by hand.

Makes you understand why burial does all his percussion as just audio in soundforge. Much less complicated and restricting than trying to think about and program time signatures, swing and triplets when you're just trying to put down a beat.

4/4 and 6/8 are just fictions , i don't know the english name of them but that only show how you place your figures in the measure and the amen break is not made by single duration figures.

Sebastian Tolk - The Sun isn't in 4/4.

quote:

Originally posted by Rebel Brown Sebastian Tolk - The Sun isn't in 4/4.

Yes it is. Listen to the drums - they maintain the 4/4 time throughout (kick/clap/kick/clap). The keyboard is just repeating a 3-quarter-note pattern over it, which repeats every 3 measures - it's the accents on the highest note (that repeats every 3 notes) that make it sound like it's changed time, but it hasn't - just count along with the kick and claps and you'll see.

It actually sounds like 2/4 to me... But I'm notoriously bad at this stuff.

quote:

Originally posted by Lolo My solarism track in its original mix is in 6/4 all the way. SOLARISM ON BEATPORT Also there's notice of eviction, but you can't really describe it as dance: Notice of Eviction on Beatport Timestop also: Beatport link ah and forgot this Nothing's Slave Forgive the Beatport links instead of youtube's, the master owner claimed all the right and got the fan videos removed, even mine.

Did anyone playout Solarism? Did you?

Well if the beat goes kick - clap - kick - clap the only way to tell the difference between 2/4 and 4/4 would be the length of the periods. Trance periods are usually 8 measures each so if you can hear distinct changes in the track happening around every 16 beats, it's 2/4, if it's every 32 beats it's 4/4.

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips Makes you understand why burial does all his percussion as just audio in soundforge. Much less complicated and restricting than trying to think about and program time signatures, swing and triplets when you're just trying to put down a beat.

Interesting point. Never heard of Burial before, what are some of his good tracks?

quote:

Originally posted by kitphillips It actually sounds like 2/4 to me... But I'm notoriously bad at this stuff.

Well, you could notate it either way, but it would just be a make-work exercise to do it 2/4 and, in practice, all you'd be doing is halving the length of each measure and doubling the length (i.e., # of measures) of the song. The main point, however, is the syncopation on the lead synth that accents every third and highest note, which gives the impression that it has changed to a triplet-based time signature.

quote:

Originally posted by Kysora Well if the beat goes kick - clap - kick - clap the only way to tell the difference between 2/4 and 4/4 would be the length of the periods. Trance periods are usually 8 measures each so if you can hear distinct changes in the track happening around every 16 beats, it's 2/4, if it's every 32 beats it's 4/4.

I would actually argue that the difference is in where the accent is placed, which doesn't apply too well to EDM, since pretty much all kick velocities are usually the same. However, outside of EDM, it is typical convention (but not a "rule") to stress beats one and three, with the downbeat (beat one) getting a little more stress, as in:

One Two Three Four | One Two Three Four

Whereas, in 2/2, the downbeat typically is stressed:

One Two | One Two | One Two | One Two

Again, that's just a generalization and does not apply to all situations.

The emphasis in pop is on the backbeat ie 2 and 4. I have rarely heard anything where the main beat was 1.

3/4

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Interesting point. Never heard of Burial before, what are some of his good tracks?

You've never heard of burial?? Have you been living under a rock for three years!? He's probably one of the biggest producers out there at the moment afaik... Anyway, here's his famous one.



This is also really very nice



Its influenced everyone from Sasha to Sei a from what I've seen, he's got really high quality productions and well worth checking out.



Rolling Stones - Gimme Shelter (Sei A Edit) by Sei A

There's your crash course in burial basically... Very nice tunes.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Well, you could notate it either way, but it would just be a make-work exercise to do it 2/4 and, in practice, all you'd be doing is halving the length of each measure and doubling the length (i.e., # of measures) of the song. The main point, however, is the syncopation on the lead synth that accents every third and highest note, which gives the impression that it has changed to a triplet-based time signature.

Obviously any track on 4/4 can be notated as 2/4, it just felt like maybe it was repeating every 2 crotchets to me, so maybe was 2/4. I mean, its all based on where the repetition is right? I could be very wrong here, not at all sure of my ground.

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad The emphasis in pop is on the backbeat ie 2 and 4. I have rarely heard anything where the main beat was 1.

I think in dubstep the snares are allegedly on the 1 and 3, so maybe thats a reversal of that trend, since generally the snares indicate the accent in dance music afaik... But I've never been sure about that, it was just told to me by a dubstep DJ in a club one time, so who knows really. On top of which, he might have been notating as though it was 70-80 bpm instead of 140-160.

quote:

Originally posted by J.L. 3/4

Still in4/4 with standard 8 bar phrase

quote:

Originally posted by Mad for Brad Still in4/4 with standard 8 bar phrase

I thought we were talking about time signatures?


Anyways, I found it interesting b/c instead of

....s.......s...
K.h.K.h.K.h.K.h.

it was

KssKssKssKss

where
K=Kick
h=hat
s=snare

We are but many things dictate the time signature. This track is pretty much the same groove as the dark side.

i just remembered, one of my all time trance tracks where in 3/4 or 12/8 or whatever. love it!!!!! memories omg its all coming back. im gonna OD now.

I don't get why time signatures are so hard to understand. I mean you probably have to deal with fourier transforms all day, how the fuck do you mess up like grade 3 math.

that track is not in 3/4

just like fourier follows, i just dont care about what it is.
i know how to count and i know how to make it, the terms means nothing to me. i never had it in my mouth anyway, im more a walk the walk. the reason ive always thought it was 3/4 is because i thought you counted 16th first and the beats, for one bar. it has 3 16ths on each beat, and 4 beats in the loop. but as ive just learned its more correct to say 12/8; which i totally cant understand. 12 what during 8 waht?

you are a smart cookie, you shouldn't be making these mistakes.

quote:

Originally posted by ken_lee it has 3 16ths on each beat, and 4 beats in the loop. but as ive just learned its more correct to say 12/8; which i totally cant understand. 12 what during 8 waht?

The top number in a time signature is the number of subdivisions per measure, not per beat. Bottom number is what you're subdividing by.

Your song has twelve 8th notes per measure. Hence, 12/8.

it makes sence caus the redrum stops after 12 16ths in 3/4 lol (last four "disabled". hard to explain without showing it.

the difference being in 3/4 , the 16th notes are in groups of 4 where as in 12/8, the 8ths are in groups of 3. So not at all the same despite having 12 instances of each value.

A better example would be 3/4 compared to 6/8

Each have 6 8th notes but they are have a very different feel.

1.. 2..
1. 2. 3.

i see where this is going. the result is the same, its just that when i put the signature to 3/4 im not really putting the second on the second and the third on the third. im actually really complex lol.

as i now understand it:

3/4:
x---x---x---

12/8:
x--x--x--x--


same length "bars" or loop as i call it, thats why i couldnt see the difference before.

no
3/4
x-x-x-
6/8
x--x--
12/8
x--x--x--x--

for 12/8 is basically 2 bars worth of 3/4 but again they aren't the same. 12/8 and 3/4 really have no relation.

ie

X-x-x-X-x-x-
x--x--x--x--

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