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-- Canadian Federal Elections 2011 - Official Thread
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quote:

Originally posted by VDub Dude if the budget had've been perfect, they STILL would've called for an election... They want their shot at power and will do anything to get it...

Portraying the opposition parties as anything other than they had been prior to Harper's reign, or anything other than a typical political party that uses typical political games and wants typical political power... is disingenuous at best.

From what we have seen over 4 years, we can now comfortably say that this Conservative leadership will do anything to get, and keep power, and do not believe in actually being frank with the Canadian public which they represent.

These guys came in on a platform of accountability and transparency... and they have been anything but.

Any honorable person would come to terms with and admit this, and agree that the Conservatives deserve to pay the same price the Liberals did over Adscam if not worse.

quote:

Originally posted by daves Portraying the opposition parties as anything other than they had been prior to Harper's reign, or anything other than a typical political party that uses typical political games and wants typical political power... is disingenuous at best. From what we have seen over 4 years, we can now comfortably say that this Conservative leadership will do anything to get, and keep power, and do not believe in actually being frank with the Canadian public which they represent. These guys came in on a platform of accountability and transparency... and they have been anything but. Any honorable person would come to terms with and admit this, and agree that the Conservatives deserve to pay the same price the Liberals did over Adscam if not worse.

Sure, but what have the Liberals actually presented to us to buy into?

Even the Conservatives had to present a valid platform before we gave them their minority, and that was after the Liberals stole over a billion dollars to line their own pockets.

The Cons are being very secretive and anything but transparent, but so far as we can tell, they haven't actually stolen our money yet. They've wasted plenty of it on fighter jets and crime legislation, but so long as they aren't taking it for themselves, the public is pretty forgiving about increased spending by a government.

The Liberals have to present a platform worth voting for, or else the Cons are on their way to a majority, barring a gaffe by Harper like the arts funding comment that cost him Quebec in the last election.

quote:

Originally posted by Spam the Liberals stole over a billion dollars to line their own pockets.

a billion dollars? are you referring to adscam? are you sure of your numbers here?

quote:

Originally posted by daves a billion dollars? are you referring to adscam? are you sure of your numbers here?

No I'm not actually sure of my numbers, and the numbers are actually secondary to the point I'm making which is that people will forgive wasteful spending, so far as it can't be proven that it was going to line the politicians pockets.

Also, Chretien himself showed us the power of secrecy by sweeping tons of scandals under the rug and pretending they never happened, same as Harper does, and Chretien would probably have continued to win elections even after the Sponsorship Inquiry. Nobody likes a whiner, and when the opposition parties do nothing but complain that Harper can't be trusted, they're right, but without offering a realistic alternative, they're also wasted words.

funny explanation of canadian parliamentary system

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yi1y...feature=related

election for kids

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4hfGy_b87gI

Looking at USA Incorporated I think it's probably good we have 4 parties. I always cheer my self up, and realize it could always be worst just look south - center incorporated democrats vs "life begins at erection" republicans

Re: Reality check: Did opposition parties read the budget?

quote:

Originally posted by daves Reality check: Did opposition parties read the budget?

I believe the Liberal's announced they had decided to vote against the budget in Oct 2010, before the budget was even thought of.

This election is a joke.

The funny thing is the Budget isn't what brought down the government so why even talk about it. The government was brought down because they are in contempt of Parliament. How are we suppose to believe anything this government says when they refuse to present documentation when required to.

quote:

Originally posted by VDub Dude if the budget had've been perfect, they STILL would've called for an election... They want their shot at power and will do anything to get it...

They fell over contempt of parliament, not the budget. Also, this is less about a shot at power for anyone then it is about replacing the leaders of the two major parties.

Re: Re: Reality check: Did opposition parties read the budget?

quote:

Originally posted by itikia I believe the Liberal's announced they had decided to vote against the budget in Oct 2010, before the budget was even thought of. This election is a joke.

As stated above, this election is in fact NOT about the budget having been refused.

Harper talk on Coalition - 1997 Interview

I laugh at Elizabeth May and the Green Party for getting snubbed again

Conservatives smell alittle like usa teabaggers to me.

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan I laugh at Elizabeth May and the Green Party for getting snubbed again

Getting snubbed has probably been the best thing for the Green Party. They've gotten better exposure by being snubbed then they would have if she was part of the debate. I would say its help the Liberals as well.

quote:

Originally posted by cyclegoat Conservatives smell alittle like usa teabaggers to me.

only a little????

quote:

Originally posted by Spam No I'm not actually sure of my numbers, and the numbers are actually secondary to the point I'm making which is that people will forgive wasteful spending, so far as it can't be proven that it was going to line the politicians pockets. Also, Chretien himself showed us the power of secrecy by sweeping tons of scandals under the rug and pretending they never happened, same as Harper does, and Chretien would probably have continued to win elections even after the Sponsorship Inquiry. Nobody likes a whiner, and when the opposition parties do nothing but complain that Harper can't be trusted, they're right, but without offering a realistic alternative, they're also wasted words.

It was around closer to 100 mil than a billion if I remember correctly. It also wasn't really given to politicians but more so their "friends" and wealthy advertising agencies. There was some value in what they paid and thats all debatable but maybe they got 20-30 million worth for 100 million. It also wasn't about the volume of money but how the contracts were given and money paid out/increased. The inquiry into it alone cost 14 million mostly in lawyers fees. Really, really bad thing but they paid the price and then some.

What the conservatives are doing now in my opinion is much worse and is wasting money you can't even compare to the Sponsorship scandal. With the money they intentionally undervalued the cost of prisons and the jets we're talking 10s of billions, not 100 million. And keep in mind this is straight from Harper himself whereas the Sponsorship scandal was conducted by people several steps down from the PM. I'd also add in the point that the Liberals scandal was a one time deal, paid for and done with. What Harper is doing now will cost us money for generations to come. Jets aint cheap to maintain and prisons need staffing.

The biggest F U in all this is it's just not something the average Canadian wants or cares about. Ya we need jets but you do NOT spend that kind of money on an unfinished product especially without taking bids. And more prisons? Cmon... Our crime rate is actually quite low and has been dropping substantially. With crumbling healthcare, education no where near the top ranked, homeless people left and right, it would be nice to see money being invested in areas that would actually benefit people instead of jets and jails that add no value to the average Canadian's life.

After all the mental institutions closed in the last 40 years it's almost laughable (in a very depressing way) that we have so many mentally ill people that can't get access to the help they need and now you're building jails. I bet a good % of the people you'll toss in there could be living healthy lives that cost the taxpayers much less per person if they could get help that exists but isn't being funded. Good example is the cop killer snow plow guy. Sure, give him a nice prison cell instead of meds and a councilor he sees once week at 1/10 the cost.

Conservatives are leading in the polls. What does that mean? Either there is allot of rich people here in Canada (I doubt it) or people don't really see the bigger picture on where this is going and vote with their ideology (more likely).

http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com...on-for-clarity/

Some Fibs policies

The Family Pack
No longer just a term used to denote products in the bulk aisle at the grocery store, the Family Pack refers to the Liberal �5-point plan� of policies that are family-friendly: Money for post-secondary school, daycare, family care, pensions and �green renovation� tax credits. (That last one rather obviously would benefit a single homeowner, too, but one assumes they wanted five things in the Family Pack.) The first four elements were already rolled out earlier in the campaign.

Deficit Reduction
The Liberals have not given a deadline for when the budget would be balanced, settling instead for a commitment to reduce the deficit to 1% of GDP within two years, �down from 3.6% in 2009-10.� That�s a bit of sleight-of-hand, though, since the government�s Budget 2011 already forecast a deficit of 1.7% of GDP this year and 1.1% of GDP next year. So the Liberals would exceed that by 0.1%. Aggressive!

Spending Cuts
The platform vows �to review all federal program spending,� a promise that is popular among parties of all stripes and is code for �cuts that we don�t really want to talk about yet.� Things the Liberals do want to talk about include the cancellation of the Accelerated Capital Cost Allowance for oil sands investment ($490-million) and the cancellation of a P3 Instrastructure Fund ($551-million). The platform also repeatedly mentions cancelling the �$30-billion deal for F-35 stealth fighter jets,� although no money will be saved in the short term and a new bidding process might end up selecting the same F-35s.

Youth Unemployment
They are against it. The platform includes an �EI holiday� for small- and medium-sized business for new hires aged 18 to 25. It predicts a cost of between $130-million and $160-million.

High-speed Internet for all!
The Liberals want �Canada to achieve basic high-speed Internet access for all Canadian households within three years,� which means funding contracts to install capacity in rural and remote areas. No longer with these areas be denied the ability to watch kitten videos without annoying blips and pauses.

A National Food Policy
The Liberals are pro-food, which seems like a vote winner. But more than that, this policy is a �comprehesive set of measures designed to fulfill the simple yet powerful goal of putting more healthy Canadian food on Canadian plates.� Nanny Chef-ism, in other words. Among the measures are plans to create an educational program on healthy eating, new regulatory standards on trans fats and salt and an $80-million dollar Buy Local Fund, which includes a development program for farmers� markets.

Respecting Democracy
The platform says an Ignatieff government would put procedural limits on the Prime Minister�s power to prorogue Parliament, though it doesn�t indicate what the limits would be or how they would be implemented. It proposes allowing Candians to pose questions to ministers in a weekly �People�s Question Period,� suggests transitioning toward online voting and talks of increasing the power of Standing Committees. All reasonable ideas, but not the major reform package that many expected, considering the Conservative government was brought down on ethical, respect-for-democracy issues.

***
Curious to see what the Cons, New Dummycrats and the Block comes up with

Globe and Mail's take on Fib's policy

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...article1969240/

I'm definitely not going to vote Liberals if they want to go back to Trudeau-esque platforms (worst PM ever)

quote:

Originally posted by cyclegoat or people don't really see the bigger picture on where this is going and vote with their ideology (more likely).

I would also say this is most likely the reason behind it. You will be surprised that how many people don�t know/care about politics in this country. All I see is people saying things like "well, Harper saved our economy so he has my votes etc" but when I ask them about his party being in contempt with the parliament or how he Prorogue the government they have nothing to say.
I can�t believe that people think of this man to be the most open and transparent leader� I truly hope that more people go to and vote in this election and to realize that Harper is not the right choice for this country.

quote:

Originally posted by hardcore trancer I truly hope that more people go to and vote in this election and to realize that Harper is not the right choice for this country.

it may be that a lot of people vote for Harper because he may not be the right choice, but the best choice considering May, Duceppe, Layton or Iggy

quote:

Originally posted by Yohan it may be that a lot of people vote for Harper because he may not be the right choice, but the best choice considering May, Duceppe, Layton or Iggy

I would rather have a blind, deaf, down syndrome monkey run this country then harper.

Even if I didn't support the liberals I would vote for them simply in hopes that it prevents harper from getting a majority.

Ignatieff introduced a little red Liberal book offering a "family pack". The last time I got a little red book offering a "family pack" I ended up committing to a lengthy Rogers Phone contract that ended up being overpriced and inefficient!

Coincidence? I think not!

i really do wish that we could vote for the prime minister.

cuz as it stands your votes don't count for shit. all of toronto will be liberal. all the west provinces will be conservative. all of quebec will be bloc. all small working towns will be NDP. and the country will be divided so it makes no difference. the only way to change the votes is to change the geographical make up of canada.

So we have Harper arrogantly telling canadians that their only options are to vote him for a majority or else they will end up with "the evil coalition". The same "evil coalition" idea which he seemed to not have a problem with in 2004 and 1997.

Harper lies about the amount of money which his agenda plans will cost, when he even feels like revealing that data to parliament (okay, well maybe the fighter jet estimates are not a lie... IF you want to believe that GAO estimates mean nothing and Lockheed-Martin is going to sell military equipment and servicing support to Canada for about half the USA itself pays!).

Harper wants canadians to believe he is there for the average family... but he is more interested in lowering business taxes (how do you make up for lost government revenue from business taxes?)

Harper wants canadians to believe we need him to install more prisons in order to feel safe and secure (what is the trending on crime rates currently?)

Harper screens anybody who is going to be allowed to ask him questions. What is he afraid of?

Harper lets the media ask a total of 5 questions per day. What is he afraid of?

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