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-- Sasha is now using Traktor!!!
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dont you see the ironi in rodri santos post? i doubt he mean that rofl. infact i think he is saying the opposite.

Who cares? I like traktor..
As long as Sasha plays good music..

Everyone's a dj these days.. get over it.

quote:

Originally posted by amdmaxx Who cares? I like traktor.. As long as Sasha plays good music..

Exactly.

So who wants to go back 5 or more years and drag out all the posts from people saying how using CDJs isn't real DJing because it's too easy and only DJing with vinyl is real?

but we all know those people were idiots.

Of course, but it still doesn't stop them.

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz So who wants to go back 5 or more years and drag out all the posts from people saying how using CDJs isn't real DJing because it's too easy and only DJing with vinyl is real?

what about reel to reel mixing versus turntables. And the day the technics came out I'm sure loads of oldschool djs were saying it's cheating it's too easy before you had to push the platter with full force to get the tracks in sync!

Here you go lads, 28 years ago.

"For the people that don't know what a turntable is"

quote:

Originally posted by Rodri Santos This is ridiculous, using traktor to mix is not real djing,

Your definition of "DJing" is not the universal definition of DJing.

quote:

Originally posted by n3lly Here you go lads, 28 years ago. "For the people that don't know what a turntable is"

Dang... thank goodness I am living in 2011. There is no way I would pick up DJing if I had to deal with all that.

quote:

Originally posted by Apeattack Dang... thank goodness I am living in 2011. There is no way I would pick up DJing if I had to deal with all that.

Why's that? Cause it doesn't have a sync button.

i love mostly how he made the phasor effect.

like Sasha really needs to prove he can DJ on turntables or CDJs. the guy has been DJing since the 90s.

Back in the days of good ol� wholesome vinyl Sasha was one of the most clinical mixers out there.

The whole crux of the issue is this... many people still associate the ability of a DJ to be his skill in matching the tempo of two tunes to one another in order to keep the music flowing. This is still the perception of many bedroom DJs today. The reality is that this was really only ever a factor in the late 80s early 90s when this was truly revered and looked up to. But as things progressed it�s mainly your entry point DJs who took this as an important thing because this was what they were currently learning. Because it is a skill that takes some time to become proficient in and longer to actually genuinely master there is a generation that carries resentment to anything that basically throws the time they took to master this out of the window. I personally felt this for some time but realised I needed to get over this stigma in order to progress.

I needed to accept that it�s my DJ experience that makes me the DJ that I am not the method I use to match beats. There is so much more, i.e. your ability to read the crowd, to program a set, things that can�t be taught to anyone that is in the home environment.

I used to believe that things like Traktor have lowered the standards of DJs but in actual fact it�s fair to say that it has actually raised it. At least now, when you are out in a club you are less likely to hear that train wreck mix alongside piss poor track selection. Granted, it makes talentless people sound a bit better than they really are, but then let�s face it, who was the last awesome DJ to make it big without a good production to their name?

One of the gigs that I play monthly, a mate of mine sets up his laptop and as it�s just us we don�t bother switching to mine, so my whole set up involves taking headphones and a memory stick with me. The dancefloor doesn�t care what we mix on, they just want to hear a well engineered set with good progression and some filthy tracks that make them feel good at the end of the night. It�s a popular night that keeps growing and people are coming for the music.

I actually heard some girls comparing us to one of the other nights there and they said they preferred ours as the overall vibe was better and the flow of the music was really good. The other guys use mainly CDs and vinyl, (now their skills aren�t great but they are good guys so I hold them no grudges), but what was interesting is that they actually mentioned our use of laptop as a plus rather than a negative. Now you and I both know that in reality it is harder to spin with proper Decks than a latop for sure, but the reality is that perceptions are changing and people are making the connection between DJs and laptops as being a natural progression. For the record my friend (Ago) and I have about 50 years of DJing in the club circuit between us so that will make a difference.

Another thing to consider is that some of the greatest DJs of all time didn�t even mix records; they just lived and died by their track selection. Selection is EVERYTHING, beat matching is a technical point.

This doesn�t mean I don�t appreciate DJs who can really rock with vinyl, I genuinely wish this is still where it was at as I really enjoyed this time in the industry, but if you can�t beat them with your game, beat them at their game.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Back in the days of good ol� wholesome vinyl Sasha was one of the most clinical mixers out there. The whole crux of the issue is this... many people still associate the ability of a DJ to be his skill in matching the tempo of two tunes to one another in order to keep the music flowing. This is still the perception of many bedroom DJs today. The reality is that this was really only ever a factor in the late 80s early 90s when this was truly revered and looked up to. But as things progressed it�s mainly your entry point DJs who took this as an important thing because this was what they were currently learning. Because it is a skill that takes some time to become proficient in and longer to actually genuinely master there is a generation that carries resentment to anything that basically throws the time they took to master this out of the window. I personally felt this for some time but realised I needed to get over this stigma in order to progress. I needed to accept that it�s my DJ experience that makes me the DJ that I am not the method I use to match beats. There is so much more, i.e. your ability to read the crowd, to program a set, things that can�t be taught to anyone that is in the home environment. I used to believe that things like Traktor have lowered the standards of DJs but in actual fact it�s fair to say that it has actually raised it. At least now, when you are out in a club you are less likely to hear that train wreck mix alongside piss poor track selection. Granted, it makes talentless people sound a bit better than they really are, but then let�s face it, who was the last awesome DJ to make it big without a good production to their name? One of the gigs that I play monthly, a mate of mine sets up his laptop and as it�s just us we don�t bother switching to mine, so my whole set up involves taking headphones and a memory stick with me. The dancefloor doesn�t care what we mix on, they just want to hear a well engineered set with good progression and some filthy tracks that make them feel good at the end of the night. It�s a popular night that keeps growing and people are coming for the music. I actually heard some girls comparing us to one of the other nights there and they said they preferred ours as the overall vibe was better and the flow of the music was really good. The other guys use mainly CDs and vinyl, (now their skills aren�t great but they are good guys so I hold them no grudges), but what was interesting is that they actually mentioned our use of laptop as a plus rather than a negative. Now you and I both know that in reality it is harder to spin with proper Decks than a latop for sure, but the reality is that perceptions are changing and people are making the connection between DJs and laptops as being a natural progression. For the record my friend (Ago) and I have about 50 years of DJing in the club circuit between us so that will make a difference. Another thing to consider is that some of the greatest DJs of all time didn�t even mix records; they just lived and died by their track selection. Selection is EVERYTHING, beat matching is a technical point. This doesn�t mean I don�t appreciate DJs who can really rock with vinyl, I genuinely wish this is still where it was at as I really enjoyed this time in the industry, but if you can�t beat them with your game, beat them at their game. Cheers Nem

Always a pleasure reading your posts mate.

I actually asked the question in another thread "how is using Traktor better than using CD'J's?"
I actually got flamed and had a verbal sparring with someone because they didn't like my question........oh well!

I appreciate that you say that perception is changing and people are beginning to make more of a connection between the DJ and laptop.
Personally I see this as a superficial perception on the part of the clubber.

As you said before (and I wholeheartedly agree) selection is EVERYTHING.

It's just that some people become rather snobbish about it all and consider that if you still use cd or vinyl, you are not moving with the times.

My argument is and always will be that Traktor (or any other laptop based software used for purpose) is no more than another method to play and mix music.

I have yet to see or hear anything from your average bedroom or club DJ using Traktor etc in realtime to deliver anything truly inspiring that cannot be done on another medium.

As I mentioned previously, people state that using Traktor etc is "the way forward"

Where exactly is "forward" in the grand scheme of things exactly?

After DJ'ing for 6+ years or so I do hold a respect for those that know how to mix on anything. I spent my time learning vinyl even as it was going out of favor, and am a little bit proud to still be able to rock my 1200's.

But after this amount of time you have to come the reality that the real work isn't even when you are spinning live. The real work is spent digging for tunes, developing your style, and learning the tracks you buy inside and out.

Playing out is just the fun part! Anyone can hit the sync button, but it takes years to learn how to put together a proper set.

And I doubt Sasha is even using the sync button. He can beatmatch in seconds, and probably is using the CDJ-2000's to control the software, the X1's for loops and effect and filters. The CDJ-2000's are like the most expensive controllers ever, but I love them!

quote:

Originally posted by A.B As I mentioned previously, people state that using Traktor etc is "the way forward" Where exactly is "forward" in the grand scheme of things exactly?

That's just one of those big philosophical questions which everyone's got a different answer for, but most people will answer with whatever they think they want to be using themselves.

DJing software looks like it's going to be the most common platform soon (if it isn't already) because it's easy and flexible. But DJing software's been around since about when I first started DJing and no one seemed to really believe it would take over until the mid 2000s, probably because it was crap.

Whatever might become the most common DJing platform in 5 years time is probably already out there but just hasn't convinced us yet. Maybe it'll go back to DJ-in-a-box style hardware, like the old Numark Mix 1... they were shite enough for people to have kept well clear of them, but now that we're seeing all-in-one MIDI controllers (Kontrol S4 etc), maybe someone will just decide to scrap the laptop and stick a hard drive & processor in the controller.

But not before the 2000s claw some DJs back when they've realised how much easier a USB stick is than a Macbook, MIDI controller and all the rest of it... tbh I don't know why anyone bothers with Traktor when they've got a handful of 2000s in the booth.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Back in the days of good ol� wholesome vinyl Sasha was one of the most clinical mixers out there. The whole crux of the issue is this... many people still associate the ability of a DJ to be his skill in matching the tempo of two tunes to one another in order to keep the music flowing. This is still the perception of many bedroom DJs today. The reality is that this was really only ever a factor in the late 80s early 90s when this was truly revered and looked up to. But as things progressed it�s mainly your entry point DJs who took this as an important thing because this was what they were currently learning. Because it is a skill that takes some time to become proficient in and longer to actually genuinely master there is a generation that carries resentment to anything that basically throws the time they took to master this out of the window. I personally felt this for some time but realised I needed to get over this stigma in order to progress. I needed to accept that it�s my DJ experience that makes me the DJ that I am not the method I use to match beats. There is so much more, i.e. your ability to read the crowd, to program a set, things that can�t be taught to anyone that is in the home environment. I used to believe that things like Traktor have lowered the standards of DJs but in actual fact it�s fair to say that it has actually raised it. At least now, when you are out in a club you are less likely to hear that train wreck mix alongside piss poor track selection. Granted, it makes talentless people sound a bit better than they really are, but then let�s face it, who was the last awesome DJ to make it big without a good production to their name? One of the gigs that I play monthly, a mate of mine sets up his laptop and as it�s just us we don�t bother switching to mine, so my whole set up involves taking headphones and a memory stick with me. The dancefloor doesn�t care what we mix on, they just want to hear a well engineered set with good progression and some filthy tracks that make them feel good at the end of the night. It�s a popular night that keeps growing and people are coming for the music. I actually heard some girls comparing us to one of the other nights there and they said they preferred ours as the overall vibe was better and the flow of the music was really good. The other guys use mainly CDs and vinyl, (now their skills aren�t great but they are good guys so I hold them no grudges), but what was interesting is that they actually mentioned our use of laptop as a plus rather than a negative. Now you and I both know that in reality it is harder to spin with proper Decks than a latop for sure, but the reality is that perceptions are changing and people are making the connection between DJs and laptops as being a natural progression. For the record my friend (Ago) and I have about 50 years of DJing in the club circuit between us so that will make a difference. Another thing to consider is that some of the greatest DJs of all time didn�t even mix records; they just lived and died by their track selection. Selection is EVERYTHING, beat matching is a technical point. This doesn�t mean I don�t appreciate DJs who can really rock with vinyl, I genuinely wish this is still where it was at as I really enjoyed this time in the industry, but if you can�t beat them with your game, beat them at their game. Cheers Nem

Nem, I may just save this post and quote it on multiple forums every time this discussion comes up

quote:

Originally posted by A.B Personally I see this as a superficial perception on the part of the clubber.

Absolutely agree. But the thing that I had to remind myself is that this is a totally new generation of clubbers who actually don't really know any different so for them it almost becomes a logical statement.

The other thing to remember as well is that clubland it probably one of the most superficial places in our society. Just cast your mind back to the last time you were in a club with a VIP lounge, when was the last time you actually saw a VIP in one?

Here is a total mind fuck for you... I was playing out last year and this wonderful looking young lady came up to me after one of my sets and said 'do you remember so and so'? To which I responded 'yes, is that your sister? And the young lady replied 'No, its my mum'. In otherwords, we have a whole new generation who are discovering EDM for the first time with no point of reference as to what a DJ should or shouldn't be.

I also remember the first time I warmed up for a DJ who used a laptop which I think was back in 2004 and was totally disgusted by it, it made it even worse for me at the time as it was M.I.K.E. who was someone that I greatly respected. Being honest with myself it is an opinion that I have had to admit that I was wrong with, and I now acknowledge that he was just a bit ahead of his time.

The last 10 years of the DJ business has seen massive change, far more so than the previous 30 even taking into account the evolution of turntablism.

You could almost write an essay on the evolution of the DJ booth, back when I started it was this out of the way place, crammed into a dark corner where this trainspotter type would dwell, to centre stage in a spacious well thought out techno heaven where you have room for more than one person.

To be fair I think Stu might have hit on the next evolution in DJing. Let's face it, who really needs any kind of deck when you could just have a mixer with display and USB slots.

The only thing that really gets me down with the industry is the cost of everything new. Back when you purchased your 1200s that was a solid investment for at least a decade or two. Admitedly the main money sink after that was buying music but this is probably why our perception of music has changed even if that is a whole other discussion.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Fledz Nem, I may just save this post and quote it on multiple forums every time this discussion comes up

Heya Fledz, feel free, although I have to say I am quite surprised as I had already prepared my asbestos undies for this one but so far the flamethrower mob havn't arrived he he.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 Back in the days of good ol� wholesome vinyl Sasha was one of the most clinical mixers out there. The whole crux of the issue is this... many people still associate the ability of a DJ to be his skill in matching the tempo of two tunes to one another in order to keep the music flowing. This is still the perception of many bedroom DJs today. The reality is that this was really only ever a factor in the late 80s early 90s when this was truly revered and looked up to. But as things progressed it�s mainly your entry point DJs who took this as an important thing because this was what they were currently learning. Because it is a skill that takes some time to become proficient in and longer to actually genuinely master there is a generation that carries resentment to anything that basically throws the time they took to master this out of the window. I personally felt this for some time but realised I needed to get over this stigma in order to progress. I needed to accept that it�s my DJ experience that makes me the DJ that I am not the method I use to match beats. There is so much more, i.e. your ability to read the crowd, to program a set, things that can�t be taught to anyone that is in the home environment. I used to believe that things like Traktor have lowered the standards of DJs but in actual fact it�s fair to say that it has actually raised it. At least now, when you are out in a club you are less likely to hear that train wreck mix alongside piss poor track selection. Granted, it makes talentless people sound a bit better than they really are, but then let�s face it, who was the last awesome DJ to make it big without a good production to their name? One of the gigs that I play monthly, a mate of mine sets up his laptop and as it�s just us we don�t bother switching to mine, so my whole set up involves taking headphones and a memory stick with me. The dancefloor doesn�t care what we mix on, they just want to hear a well engineered set with good progression and some filthy tracks that make them feel good at the end of the night. It�s a popular night that keeps growing and people are coming for the music. I actually heard some girls comparing us to one of the other nights there and they said they preferred ours as the overall vibe was better and the flow of the music was really good. The other guys use mainly CDs and vinyl, (now their skills aren�t great but they are good guys so I hold them no grudges), but what was interesting is that they actually mentioned our use of laptop as a plus rather than a negative. Now you and I both know that in reality it is harder to spin with proper Decks than a latop for sure, but the reality is that perceptions are changing and people are making the connection between DJs and laptops as being a natural progression. For the record my friend (Ago) and I have about 50 years of DJing in the club circuit between us so that will make a difference. Another thing to consider is that some of the greatest DJs of all time didn�t even mix records; they just lived and died by their track selection. Selection is EVERYTHING, beat matching is a technical point. This doesn�t mean I don�t appreciate DJs who can really rock with vinyl, I genuinely wish this is still where it was at as I really enjoyed this time in the industry, but if you can�t beat them with your game, beat them at their game. Cheers Nem

Finally..

The one thing I don't understand about the industry right now is the love of CDJs. They're dumb, and they've always been dumb (obviously they're good gear from a technical standpoint, I simply mean in concept). It should have gone from vinyl straight to mp3s, but instead we have this middle stage with CDJs.

It's funny how I've been told by some DJs I should "learn CDJs, cause midi controllers and laptops are lame". To me it seems ridiculous to buy something to play a dying medium. Vinyl will always be respected and unique, because it actually SOUNDS different, but CDJs play the same digital tracks in a more cumbersome way.

Who knows, maybe it's just because the first time I started DJing was back in the latter vinyl days (02-03), and then I gave it up and have been getting into it again recently with a midi controller + laptop. Burning a bunch of CDs just seems silly.

(I know the new ones have USB inputs, and they'd probably be great to use as controllers, but I don't see why you'd look down on a midi controller, but respect the use of CDJs as mp3 controllers)

quote:

Originally posted by Quazar The one thing I don't understand about the industry right now is the love of CDJs. They're dumb, and they've always been dumb (obviously they're good gear from a technical standpoint, I simply mean in concept). It should have gone from vinyl straight to mp3s, but instead we have this middle stage with CDJs. It's funny how I've been told by some DJs I should "learn CDJs, cause midi controllers and laptops are lame". To me it seems ridiculous to buy something to play a dying medium. Vinyl will always be respected and unique, because it actually SOUNDS different, but CDJs play the same digital tracks in a more cumbersome way. Who knows, maybe it's just because the first time I started DJing was back in the latter vinyl days (02-03), and then I gave it up and have been getting into it again recently with a midi controller + laptop. Burning a bunch of CDs just seems silly. (I know the new ones have USB inputs, and they'd probably be great to use as controllers, but I don't see why you'd look down on a midi controller, but respect the use of CDJs as mp3 controllers)

Because when the CDJ's first came out, there was a period of about 7 years where laptops weren't powerful enough, and the software to DJ with digital audio files wasn't mature.

Some people still love to have physical media, it's a preference.

quote:

Originally posted by Quazar It's funny how I've been told by some DJs I should "learn CDJs, cause midi controllers and laptops are lame". T

I think 'laptop/controller' dj's should learn how to play on CDJ's not because laptops are lame, but because every club will have a cdj there. It's a solid and reliable enough medium to play your songs from. A club wont have a spare laptop sitting around with all your tunes on it.

The amount of times I've seen laptop dj's give up their sets because they can't play on cdj's is hilarious. "no no no i can't play on cdj's i'll only play with my laptop"

The ability to play on cdj's is just a handy backup.

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