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-- The Ideal Melody
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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik OK.

Do you think I should have said the internetz instead? lol

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Do you think I should have said the internetz instead? lol

Yes, that would obviously be the correct answer. Music theory is not about learning rules and learning how to break them - that's Internet talk, not academic talk. But, if your approach works for you, go for it and happy melody making.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Yes, that would obviously be the correct answer. Music theory is not about learning rules and learning how to break them - that's Internet talk, not academic talk. But, if your approach works for you, go for it and happy melody making.

"Rules" isn't the best choice of words. Ultimately, they are concepts for you to twist and bend at your own artistic will.

quote:

Originally posted by clay LOL at suggesting total blackout as the ideal melody rofl. shows what this place is about. good job TA making me laugh today.

Wasnt suggesting that at all, was posted as an example that you dont have to follow any so called rules..

Glad I put a smile on your chops


@ beatflux.. I have and it applies but I aint guna argue. If you wana though cos you've already lost one in this thread then go ahead.

Could you guys post your absolute favourite melodies? And we can analyse them here, no problem^^

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 Wasnt suggesting that at all, was posted as an example that you dont have to follow any so called rules..

sorry i might have missunderstood then.

still not sure what you mean by posting the total blackout really.

Well then I'll put up my favorite melody. :P

@Beatflux

thanks for the tips, I will not use the tips like rules I will never break, but its very useful to reflect and construct about them.



I'll try get the entire book somewhere...

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 @ beatflux.. I have and it applies but I aint guna argue. If you wana though cos you've already lost one in this thread then go ahead.

Andy, that Fred Baker song has no place in a debate about melody. By that logic, a pitched bassdrum playing a 4/4 beat would constitute a melody.

To argue that anything which is rhythmic and pitched is a melody is to broaden the scope of the discussion to a point where it's meaningless.

quote:

Originally posted by derail Andy, that Fred Baker song has no place in a debate about melody. By that logic, a pitched bassdrum playing a 4/4 beat would constitute a melody.

Nu-Style? :P

quote:

Originally posted by derail Andy, that Fred Baker song has no place in a debate about melody. By that logic, a pitched bassdrum playing a 4/4 beat would constitute a melody. To argue that anything which is rhythmic and pitched is a melody is to broaden the scope of the discussion to a point where it's meaningless.

Sorry my bad. Is this anybetter??


http://youtu.be/-vrrhuDspqw

quote:

Originally posted by clay sorry i might have missunderstood then. still not sure what you mean by posting the total blackout really.

Jesus Christ bro you couldn't possibly be drunk again.
Sometimes you miss things that a monkey with downsyndrome wouldn't miss.

If you read the question he was answering you would have known clearly like I did that he was posting a track that defied the listed rules.
That was the point.
Then you come in and rip his post as far out of context as someone possibly can not even realizing that was his whole point.

Then AFTER he explains what he meant... you're still confused. The same way andy gave you a laugh, reading your second post made me spit fried clams all over my monitor (eating a fried clam sammich encase you don't understand that either). So thank YOU for giving me one of the best laughs I've ever had on TA.
It wasn't enough of a hint first time around, then after explaining it you're still baffled. If thats not an omen to put the bottle down I don't know what is.

Now in reply to andy. I agree with what everyone else said. If thats a "melody", then you can call anything a melody. Its definitely not, and in that respect I think you're wrong. I mean if you were posting the thing as an example of what defies a melody... that would make it that much more likely that what you were posting wasn't a melody. So I'm not sure why you still seem to think it is.

But I'm definitely not asking for an explanation. Because that would imply I actually think theres potential for you to manipulate clear facts and use some outlandish definition to explain how its a melody, when a melody it is not.

//end thread

Here's a little melody and simple chord progression that I just came up with while working on for a loungy/chillout track for one of my vocalists. The piano melody is what the singer will use as her guide to write melodies (and she may end up changing it as well). It's very much a WIP and very likely to change, but it's a starting point and I figured I'd post it here as an example of how I usually start my tracks while the whole thought process of how I usually approach melodies is fresh on my mind. It's definitely not an example of what I consider to be a great melody - it's basically just a musical braindump at this point. Hopefully it's somewhat useful to you guys, and maybe even useful to me if you have any comments or suggestions.

http://www.cryophonik.com/files/cry...lout_Melody.mp3

My approach was to start with a simple chord progression (Gmin9/Dm7) and I just recorded the bass, pads, and EP live to a drum loop. I don't waste my time quantizing or anything at this point and I just get rough levels on everything so that I don't get sidetracked by the technicalities and I can just focus on getting the musical ideas down. Then I just let it loop while I listen and play along on my piano and bass (yes, I use both to get different perspectives). I don't restrain myself to anything other than what my ear is telling me.

Most of this melody (particularly the first half of each stanza) just came to me in my head and I started by just humming along until individual phrases start to form, then I just started playing it on my piano and record the ideas one at a time. That's one reason why ear training is such a valuable skill to learn and hone. Then, I just start listening to what parts work and listen for variations of the parts that don't.

Also, I don't write lyrics at all, so I have a tendency to think (and sometimes hum out loud) the melody in my own form of "scat", if you're familiar with that. Basically, I'm thinking of the notes as something like "be bop doodle bop be bop doodle bop." Yes, it sounds pretty stupid, but it's an effective way of envisioning how a vocalist would phrase something when you're not actually working with lyrics. If I'm writing a melody for an instrument, then I don't think that way - I just start with a sound that's close to what I want.

As far as the rhythm of the melody goes, you'll notice that the melody is accented in a certain pattern to emphasize some of the offbeats. There are also repeating patterns of three short notes followed by a long note. The long notes usually accent the 16th note before the downbeat to give it some groove. The rising and pattern sorta gives it some tension and the falling patterns give it a little release (IMO, at least).

One last point is that, if we keep this melody, we'll probably have to transpose the song down a step or two. The high D in the 3rd and 4th stanzas are in a pretty squeaky range for the singer, whereas I'm thinking that this would sound better/warmer/smokier/loungier in a lower register. So, there you have it. Hopefully you guys find this useful.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Here's a little melody and simple chord progression that I just came up with while working on for a loungy/chillout track for one of my vocalists. The piano melody is what the singer will use as her guide to write melodies (and she may end up changing it as well). It's very much a WIP and very likely to change, but it's a starting point and I figured I'd post it here as an example of how I usually start my tracks while the whole thought process of how I usually approach melodies is fresh on my mind. It's definitely not an example of what I consider to be a great melody - it's basically just a musical braindump at this point. Hopefully it's somewhat useful to you guys, and maybe even useful to me if you have any comments or suggestions. http://www.cryophonik.com/files/cry...lout_Melody.mp3 My approach was to start with a simple chord progression (Gmin9/Dm7) and I just recorded the bass, pads, and EP live to a drum loop. I don't waste my time quantizing or anything at this point and I just get rough levels on everything so that I don't get sidetracked by the technicalities and I can just focus on getting the musical ideas down. Then I just let it loop while I listen and play along on my piano and bass (yes, I use both to get different perspectives). I don't restrain myself to anything other than what my ear is telling me. Most of this melody (particularly the first half of each stanza) just came to me in my head and I started by just humming along until individual phrases start to form, then I just started playing it on my piano and record the ideas one at a time. That's one reason why ear training is such a valuable skill to learn and hone. Then, I just start listening to what parts work and listen for variations of the parts that don't. Also, I don't write lyrics at all, so I have a tendency to think (and sometimes hum out loud) the melody in my own form of "scat", if you're familiar with that. Basically, I'm thinking of the notes as something like "be bop doodle bop be bop doodle bop." Yes, it sounds pretty stupid, but it's an effective way of envisioning how a vocalist would phrase something when you're not actually working with lyrics. If I'm writing a melody for an instrument, then I don't think that way - I just start with a sound that's close to what I want. As far as the rhythm of the melody goes, you'll notice that the melody is accented in a certain pattern to emphasize some of the offbeats. There are also repeating patterns of three short notes followed by a long note. The long notes usually accent the 16th note before the downbeat to give it some groove. The rising and pattern sorta gives it some tension and the falling patterns give it a little release (IMO, at least). One last point is that, if we keep this melody, we'll probably have to transpose the song down a step or two. The high D in the 3rd and 4th stanzas are in a pretty squeaky range for the singer, whereas I'm thinking that this would sound better/warmer/smokier/loungier in a lower register. So, there you have it. Hopefully you guys find this useful.

O-O

Am I the only one who just puts notes down that sounds good then looks at the theory after?

Major intimidation going on.

quote:

Originally posted by skyhunter O-O Am I the only one who just puts notes down that sounds good then looks at the theory after? Major intimidation going on.

I'm usually not thinking too much about the theory as I'm writing or humming. If I'm just playing along hoping that something sticks, then I tend to think in terms of different scales/modes and even chord extensions, but I'm almost always just focused on what my ears are telling me. The theory part just becomes second nature.

Anyway, as I was writing my long post and listening to the track some more, I came up with a few more variations that now come in around 1:17 (after the little break following the first melody). You may have to refresh your browser/clear your cache (I had to) in order to hear the new version. Not sure I which ones I'll keep - I'll probably let the singer give me her input.

this is useless garbage... you can either write a melody, or you fucking cannot. common beatflux, what is this?

edit: if anything, i consider this shameless. melody writing isn't something you can improve by reading staples. if you want to know how to write melodies, get stoned and listen to classical music while sipping Lattes.. the weed and caffeine will interact spawning cadence...

but i mean, don't give people false hope reading this garbage, as if knowing tenants will help them write hooks... bah...

oh yeah, just keep in mind the number of intervals, when writing a melody, this sounds like writing a fucking spreadsheet. please, no more garbage like this.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox If you read the question he was answering you would have known clearly like I did that he was posting a track that defied the listed rules. That was the point.

Yes, cheers robby

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Now in reply to andy. I agree with what everyone else said. If thats a "melody", then you can call anything a melody.

So true, I know you wouldn't call a kick a melody, but was asked to look it up in the dictionary which I did and all it basically says its notes that form a satisfying sequence, which it is.
If ad known it would cause fuss then I wouldnt have posted in the first place.

lol i still dont understand why total blackout was posted in a melody thread. its like posting a drumnbass track in a house-thread. or a richie hawtin track in a classical thread. i just dont get it. its not breaking any rules, its not a melody at all.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Here's a little melody and simple chord progression that I just came up with while working on for a loungy/chillout track for one of my vocalists. The piano melody is what the singer will use as her guide to write melodies (and she may end up changing it as well). It's very much a WIP and very likely to change, but it's a starting point and I figured I'd post it here as an example of how I usually start my tracks while the whole thought process of how I usually approach melodies is fresh on my mind. It's definitely not an example of what I consider to be a great melody - it's basically just a musical braindump at this point. Hopefully it's somewhat useful to you guys, and maybe even useful to me if you have any comments or suggestions. http://www.cryophonik.com/files/cry...lout_Melody.mp3 My approach was to start with a simple chord progression (Gmin9/Dm7) and I just recorded the bass, pads, and EP live to a drum loop. I don't waste my time quantizing or anything at this point and I just get rough levels on everything so that I don't get sidetracked by the technicalities and I can just focus on getting the musical ideas down. Then I just let it loop while I listen and play along on my piano and bass (yes, I use both to get different perspectives). I don't restrain myself to anything other than what my ear is telling me. Most of this melody (particularly the first half of each stanza) just came to me in my head and I started by just humming along until individual phrases start to form, then I just started playing it on my piano and record the ideas one at a time. That's one reason why ear training is such a valuable skill to learn and hone. Then, I just start listening to what parts work and listen for variations of the parts that don't. Also, I don't write lyrics at all, so I have a tendency to think (and sometimes hum out loud) the melody in my own form of "scat", if you're familiar with that. Basically, I'm thinking of the notes as something like "be bop doodle bop be bop doodle bop." Yes, it sounds pretty stupid, but it's an effective way of envisioning how a vocalist would phrase something when you're not actually working with lyrics. If I'm writing a melody for an instrument, then I don't think that way - I just start with a sound that's close to what I want. As far as the rhythm of the melody goes, you'll notice that the melody is accented in a certain pattern to emphasize some of the offbeats. There are also repeating patterns of three short notes followed by a long note. The long notes usually accent the 16th note before the downbeat to give it some groove. The rising and pattern sorta gives it some tension and the falling patterns give it a little release (IMO, at least). One last point is that, if we keep this melody, we'll probably have to transpose the song down a step or two. The high D in the 3rd and 4th stanzas are in a pretty squeaky range for the singer, whereas I'm thinking that this would sound better/warmer/smokier/loungier in a lower register. So, there you have it. Hopefully you guys find this useful.

The melody sounds similar to what you have done before.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux The melody sounds similar to what you have done before.

OK. I'm not thinking of any specific melodies that I've written that sound similar, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that I have a recognizable style - most people do. You mentioned that you've taken music theory courses in college, so you must have spent considerable time analyzing and writing melodies. Do you have any specific suggestions on how I can improve it? And, no that's not an attempt to draw you into a dick-measuring contest, but it is an attempt to make you think critically about what you do and don't like about a melody without the aid of the Internet or a book - what do your ears tell you?

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik OK. I'm not thinking of any specific melodies that I've written that sound similar, but it wouldn't surprise me to hear that I have a recognizable style - most people do. You mentioned that you've taken music theory courses in college, so you must have spent considerable time analyzing and writing melodies. Do you have any specific suggestions on how I can improve it? And, no that's not an attempt to draw you into a dick-measuring contest, but it is an attempt to make you think critically about what you do and don't like about a melody without the aid of the Internet or a book - what do your ears tell you?

Send me the midi.

quote:

Originally posted by Beatflux Send me the midi.

No. I'm not giving away a work in progress and that would defeat the purpose of using your ears. Anybody who has taken even an intro to music theory class could easily figure this simple melody out. The song is in Gmin. There are no non-scale notes, so there are only 7 choices for each note. The first note is C. You can figure it out from there. I mean, fifth graders playing in garage bands can learn a song by just listening to it. It's not rocket science. Again, use your ears.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Robby Rox Jesus Christ bro you couldn't possibly be drunk again. Sometimes you miss things that a monkey with downsyndrome wouldn't miss. If you read the question he was answering you would have known clearly like I did that he was posting a track that defied the listed rules. That was the point. Then you come in and rip his post as far out of context as someone possibly can not even realizing that was his whole point. Then AFTER he explains what he meant... you're still confused. The same way andy gave you a laugh, reading your second post made me spit fried clams all over my monitor (eating a fried clam sammich encase you don't understand that either). So thank YOU for giving me one of the best laughs I've ever had on TA. It wasn't enough of a hint first time around, then after explaining it you're still baffled. If thats not an omen to put the bottle down I don't know what is. Now in reply to andy. I agree with what everyone else said. If thats a "melody", then you can call anything a melody. Its definitely not, and in that respect I think you're wrong. I mean if you were posting the thing as an example of what defies a melody... that would make it that much more likely that what you were posting wasn't a melody. So I'm not sure why you still seem to think it is. But I'm definitely not asking for an explanation. Because that would imply I actually think theres potential for you to manipulate clear facts and use some outlandish definition to explain how its a melody, when a melody it is not. //end thread

i wuz drunk

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