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Many producers seem to value big DJs playing and charting their tracks rather than little guys like you and me buying them. That's how it seems sometimes, anyway. Not really relevant but just saying.

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watch dj harveys interview from redbull music academy, he simply says the exact same shit, if someone downloads his music and doesn't buy it, he just doesn't really care unless someone is really profiting off his work.

exactly, if someone downloads ur track for personal use that they would otherwise not buy and listen to, how exactly does it harm you? it only benefits you through the spread of publicity paramount to success. If not for piracy most known artists in underground music would not be successful.


ps. lol at the "legal" whining, true caker mentality

*cough*electrobuzz.net*cough*

Besides, producers don't make fuck all selling their tracks on Beatport.. what is it, 30% of sales? The whole point is getting your name out there and building hype so you can eventually land international gigs, where the real money is.

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Originally posted by corjay9 producers don't make fuck all selling their tracks on Beatport.. what is it, 30% of sales? The whole point is getting your name out there and building hype so you can eventually land international gigs, where the real money is.

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Originally posted by corjay9 *cough*electrobuzz.net*cough* Besides, producers don't make fuck all selling their tracks on Beatport.. what is it, 30% of sales? The whole point is getting your name out there and building hype so you can eventually land international gigs, where the real money is.

Gigs are nice, but that doesn't mean it's alright to lose over four fifths of your publishing revenue to people that just want to "preview" shit. I've never sat down and written / arranged / A&Red anything for anyone for the purpose of being "fodder" or buffer material to get one's name out there. If you're serious about releasing music, it's a labour of love and it's material that you want to be successful.

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular here, but if you're saying it's inconvenient to listen to a preview (or even the whole goddamned thing) on YouTube / Beatport / iTunes / insert portal here.. Well, you're not convincing anyone who has some sense.

Music piracy is pretty entrenched in our culture and while there are some trying to change the way the system works and move back to monetizing it, it doesn't make it morally okay.

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Originally posted by Adam420 Many producers seem to value big DJs playing and charting their tracks rather than little guys like you and me buying them. That's how it seems sometimes, anyway. Not really relevant but just saying.

So common it's unreal

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Originally posted by Jer I'm not having a go at anyone in particular here, but if you're saying it's inconvenient to listen to a preview (or even the whole goddamned thing) on YouTube / Beatport / iTunes / insert portal here.. Well, you're not convincing anyone who has some sense.

But think of it this way... take what maybe 50% of normal daily music sales are, the top selling albums/singles from Itunes. It's radio/MTV music. It's music that the average person can listen to, FOR FREE for the most part whenever they want and get exposed to music. In their cars, at home, at the office, dr's office, walking in the mall. So people hear things, say "Hey, that's catchy 'Last Friday night, We went streaking in the park, Skinny dipping in the dark, Then had a menage a trois' who is this?" Ohhh, the DJ said it was Katy Perry. Then that person goes home and googles 'Katy Perry Friday' and finds it on iTunes or the other thousands of legitimate music sites.

Where are you going to hear EDM now in the same manner? Besides a few shitty satellite XM/Sirrus radio stations. Previewing it when you are doing other things is not only enjoyable, but efficient when you're not locked down in front of your computer.

I listen to tons of sets and try to track ID and trainspot the tracks with the help of good people at TA and other forums. But really, how else can you be exposed to the music? As huge as EDM is getting, as fast as it is growing and the number of listeners has now from maybe 10 years ago. It's still not the mainstream and besides some cheese, it's not getting airplay or exposure besides being in a club.

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Originally posted by Mach X But think of it this way... take what maybe 50% of normal daily music sales are, the top selling albums/singles from Itunes. It's radio/MTV music. It's music that the average person can listen to, FOR FREE for the most part whenever they want and get exposed to music. In their cars, at home, at the office, dr's office, walking in the mall. So people hear things, say "Hey, that's catchy 'Last Friday night, We went streaking in the park, Skinny dipping in the dark, Then had a menage a trois' who is this?" Ohhh, the DJ said it was Katy Perry. Then that person goes home and googles 'Katy Perry Friday' and finds it on iTunes or the other thousands of legitimate music sites. Where are you going to hear EDM now in the same manner? Besides a few shitty satellite XM/Sirrus radio stations. Previewing it when you are doing other things is not only enjoyable, but efficient when you're not locked down in front of your computer. I listen to tons of sets and try to track ID and trainspot the tracks with the help of good people at TA and other forums. But really, how else can you be exposed to the music? As huge as EDM is getting, as fast as it is growing and the number of listeners has now from maybe 10 years ago. It's still not the mainstream and besides some cheese, it's not getting airplay or exposure besides being in a club.

And that's fair - I see what you're saying, the penetration / exposure rates aren't as high as pop music are - the majority of EDM has always been and will always be a niche and underground market. At the end of the day we set a price for our goods based on a million different variables and we as artists / publishers / etc. feel that it's fair given the associated costs on our end.

Not like I really need to wake a sleeping giant but I take issue with larger acts like Skrillex encouraging that behaviour because while I can't say I've ever seen his balance sheets, such a comment would suggest that almost his entire revenue is from touring and performance. I'm reasonable, I understand and accept there are certain people that you just can't get through to because of their sense of entitlement but to push an "it's alright, the artist says to" position on the consumer public seems almost irresponsible. Again, all due respect to Skrillex and his people, they do fantastic work but it's certainly not doing any of us any favours.

Also, I hope you don't think I was taking aim directly at you; Certainly not trying to be rude so if I came off as such, apologies.

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Originally posted by Jer Also, I hope you don't think I was taking aim directly at you; Certainly not trying to be rude so if I came off as such, apologies.

Nah mate, no offense taken at all, just having a mature discussion on the ethics/morality of the whole music piracy. It's all good, no worries!

2 things to point out - Sandeep, you really didn't have to stoop to the level of mentioning Nick's health problems... and library cards are entirely free

I stopped peer to peer downloading 5 years ago. But I confess that I had much more access to music back then. Not only I can't afford to buy every track, it makes me to be very selective in what I download. 2$ a track is lots. Well I use youtube to compensate for that, but it's not the same. So I see where Mach X is coming from.

/thread

this seems like a relavent thread, i gave up tonight. I wish all the best to producers in toronto and the toronto area, i really do. cheers.

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Originally posted by Jer Gigs are nice, but that doesn't mean it's alright to lose over four fifths of your publishing revenue to people that just want to "preview" shit. I've never sat down and written / arranged / A&Red anything for anyone for the purpose of being "fodder" or buffer material to get one's name out there. If you're serious about releasing music, it's a labour of love and it's material that you want to be successful. I'm not having a go at anyone in particular here, but if you're saying it's inconvenient to listen to a preview (or even the whole goddamned thing) on YouTube / Beatport / iTunes / insert portal here.. Well, you're not convincing anyone who has some sense. Music piracy is pretty entrenched in our culture and while there are some trying to change the way the system works and move back to monetizing it, it doesn't make it morally okay.

How much you selling wristbands for??

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Originally posted by MSZ this seems like a relavent thread, i gave up tonight. I wish all the best to producers in toronto and the toronto area, i really do. cheers.

You gave up producing? Never give up man, do what you love.

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Originally posted by MSZ this seems like a relavent thread, i gave up tonight. I wish all the best to producers in toronto and the toronto area, i really do. cheers.

nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo your productions are diamonds in the rough d00d, pls don't be serious

depression sucks.

Anyone know of sites for TV shows that use ORON?

And before anyone jumps out of their chair in a rant with thier panties in a bunch, i'm looking for TV shows, on TV for free already, and you could TIVO it if you wanted to.

technically, tv shows are not free.

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Originally posted by Nick Cenik With all due respect, please don't use TOTA as a means to ask for help re: how to download illegally shared music - it offends me as a producer.

you mean to say it offends you as a wanna-be with a cracked copy of ableton, some stolen VSTs and a bunch of samples you probably didn't buy? lol, douche.

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Originally posted by Nick Cenik My only reply: 1. You're asking for help re: how to steal music more easily - which is exactly what I called you out on as I spoke only about productions and said nothing about sets. There has been no misinterpretation of your intentions on my behalf: 2. Producers do not want people stealing their music - period. Do not try to justify your actions by suggesting that stealing is acceptable because it leads to more exposure of artists' sounds. That point is true, but it doesn't make your behaviour any less deplorable. 3. It seems to me that every person that owns a computer these days downloads pirated software/games/movies/music etc. I take offence when people like you blatantly and publicly reveal your desire to steal music and ask others how to help accomplish the theft. 4. I've never once asked anybody to 'pity' me, simply to support my music as a local DJ/producer in the Toronto scene. I'm incredibly blessed and thankful for the fact that my music is supported by many friends, fellow music enthusiasts, and a number of very talented and successful artists (from Anthony Attalla to UGLH to Sharam of Deep Dish). 5. It's absolutely pathetic for you to mention the fact that I've used TOTA - a community full of many people whom I know in real life and care about - to discuss and seek advice for my chronic pain. I suffer from Allodynia...not a 'rash'. 6. Fuck you.

.... Too much trolling has occured!

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