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quote:

Originally posted by JEO Sean you're a smart and talented guy...

+1

I've been considering some of the other things you've said in your post and want to make it clear - I'm not insulting you. This is nothing against you, as a person. I am attacking your inferences about people who dislike and therefore don't make dub(bro)step. I'm not even attacking Skrillex's abilities, as a producer. No matter how complex, however, brostep is music made for children and adults who haven't found it within themselves to broaden their horizons beyond the shit they're angry with.


I'm not content with the "just dance music" approach to making or hearing dance-floor oriented music. Within all genres of music there exist aberrations. That's not just limited to EDM. I was talking to a folk musician the other day about the similarities in some of the discussions that occur, here, and within his own community. It's downright uncanny, at first take, but the same qualitative assessments made, here, are translatable to assessments made in other forums (generally speaking - not just internet), be it art, music, movies, et al. My point is that my take on brostep isn't derived from the implied superiority presumably maintained for the sum of other genre's contributing artists. It's being put up against the ideal for each genre.

To put it another way, if you put Skrillex up against Duke Ellington and asked which was better, the answer is Ellington. My point is that brostep isn't jazz and it can't possibly compare to it. At best it's EDM's version of punk. You can't stack up Black Flag against Jimi Hendrix and maintain that Black Flag competes with that. 80's Hair Metal won't compete with anything by Pink Floyd or Queen. The simple fact is that there are some genres that are going to be awful and, very often, they are awful for the sake of being awful. Dubstep is one of those genres. Yeah, you're right. It is just dance music, but it is still awful.

quote:

Originally posted by EddieZilker I'm not trying to defend trance, house, reggae, R&B, D&B, or any other genre of music which may or may not compete against it. Simply put, I am arguing that brostep is horrible music in much the same way I would argue that locusts make horrible house-pets or Suharto was a horrible Indonesian. The fact that making stark assessments about quality implies comparisons to that which is better does not make your argument that brostep isn't trance more relevant to the discussion. I'm not even close to entertaining the position that trance is better than brostep. I'm sure I could if I wanted to but I hardly need to in order to prove that brostep is, in fact, garbage. I'm definitely not arguing for some specific emotion any specific form of music should convey. The three stereotypical emotions most EDM is associated with are horny, angry, and sad; something akin to the red, green, and blue of electronic music's spectrum. Mix the right amount of horny with the right amount of sad, and viola! ~ Tiesto's version of "Adagio for Strings" or some other trite non-sense passing itself off as an emotionally cathartic movement for the masses, stunned in awe of its modernized, Hooked on Classics sensibility. EDIT in parenthesis: Your (first two) examples stay well away from the constantly face-melting PA screamers and, apart from minor wobble-bass unified with more substantially musical elements, have little to do with brostep. The fact is that when the term, dubstep, is used, 90% of the time, the most common association people are making (fucking thank you, once again, Bitchport!) is with brostep - hence why I have used to term, brostep consistently throughout my posts. Most ardent defenders of the more artsy, nuanced, and genuine Dubstep genre have abandoned referring to songs made by the genre's pioneering artists as Dubstep because, as brostep labels sought to exploit the niche foothold for marketing purposes, the word Dubstep has taken on a new meaning that, albeit perverse, is still linguistically current. When I'm clearly arguing about straight-up hard-liquor (nothing against hard alcohol - I used to love the stuff, myself), don't tell me you've been talking on behalf of strawberry daiquiris, all along. In short, like many discussions concerning music, this argument is now about definitions and one that I was trying to avoid. You've stepped into dithering territory, however, so let me clarify what happened, for you: 1. You've made a song which you attribute to the genre of Dubstep. 2. That song, regardless of its technical proficiency, is currently rife with tropes commonly associated with the red-headed step-child of Dubstep, brostep. 3. The OP started this thread inquiring about Dubstep. 4. Inevitably (inevitably because it always happens), someone complained that Dubstep sucks, meaning to refer to brostep. 5. You complained, "There's no way any of us could just tell you how to make dubstep. That doesn't excuse the ignorant shit you've received for answers, though. I just find it amusing that nobody who bashes dubstep on this website has any idea how to produce it." 6. I replied to your post, "Uh, no. If you're talking about the brostep version of dubstep, chances are I don't know some nuance pertinent to it but please, don't insult anyone's intelligence because they dislike that horrid bullshit masquerading as musical innovation." I made it very clear, the music to which I was referring to. 7. You replied, arguing that I was simplistically discounting a genre and pejoratively regarding it as "brostep". It should have been clear, I was doing neither and I very clearly described the music I was referring to, in my next post. To make it clearer for you, the word, brostep is being used to make the necessary semantic distinction to be having this conversation, in the first place. Hence, I used the word, brostep as an adjective applicable to the word, version that further indicated a subtype of Dubstep under discussion, that is actually, commonly, and rightfully referred to as brostep. While the word, dubstep is so compromised that it is essentially meaningless, there-by causing the "misunderstanding" all of your arguments are based on, brostep should have a very clear meaning. Skrillex - 100% brostep. Your recent WIP - 100% brostep. The songs you've most recently posted as examples: 10-15% brostep! Whatever music you call Dubstep does not change the fact that when most people in this forum are referring to Dubstep, they are semantically referring to the rage-fueled bullshit that Skrillex pioneered and many more producers have ineptly tried to emulate. They are not referring to any of the songs you've posted in defense of Dubstep. 8. Result: Semantic cluster-fuck. And you have the balls to say I'm being a cunt? EDIT on reflection of your last example: I don't particularly like that one and think it is more "bro" oriented. Not taking away from his technical proficiency or mixing sensibilities, that I think are above par. It's just the music is so ridiculously emo and the vocal, so rife with pitiable self-indulgence, that it's hard to appreciate it for being anything other than adolescent. Honestly, reminds me of Dragonforce: Technically genius, sophisticated, and even innovative but both songs lack maturity in that their lyrics are nothing short of deluded fantasy. Half of Dragonfarce's songs have to do with enacting some form of aggression and Feed Me does little more than aggrandize the passive-aggressive's yearning for independence from their perceived oppressors (a teen-aged emancipation from parents/authority). The common theme is anger, for the sake of being angry; aggression mistaken for potency. In reality both are cherished by those who perceive themselves as impotent yet long for positions less compromised than that of a rebellious male teen. Lots of technical skill. Lots of angry. Lots of horny. No common-sense. No soul. Virtuosity doesn't make it any less obvious. If anything, it masks irksome simplicity while aggrandizing adolescent themes. Like designs etched or folded into the blade of a sword, it looks nice, but it doesn't make the sword any less of a sword; which is why I'm criticizing it, in the first place - for being a sword.

Did you read what I wrote in front of my examples? I said for the first two "The same person who made this, and this.." (in reference to the first to tracks, which I know don't resemble "brostep" as you insist on calling it) made the last track, which is very clearly what you're talking about.

He makes beautiful, emotional tracks but he also makes angry, aggressive music because he LKES IT and is a damn fucking talented producer.

JEO is right, I shouldn't be defending the genre, the reason I'm having this discussion is because Eddie normally is understanding and able to see the merits behind music without enjoying it. Right now, he's being an outright stubborn mule, not only insulting an entire genre of music, but insulting the people who listen to it AND the people who produce it by calling it shit, saying the people who listen to it are stupid frat boys and that the producers are talentless.

I know damn well that my song shares attributes with what you call "brostep," I'm not denying that! My whole point is that calling it "brostep" is like calling classical music "pretentious fucking asshole music" because you don't like it. Both are ridiculous and neither makes the people who listen to that music look stupid, both make YOU look stupid. Using that term implies that you have a sense of superiority to the people who like aggressive dubstep which is ridiculous.

I'm done here, I still like you Eddie but I think you're being obnoxious.

quote:

Originally posted by Seandroid ...

I'll let this slide, for the time being. See edits and my last post.

Fact is your first two examples were more reminiscent of what dubstep used to sound like, before the bros took over.

lol I suck!

quote:

Originally posted by atxbigballer1 lol I suck!

Haha honestly is such a good trait!

not bad stan steeL

quote:

Originally posted by orTof�nChiLd not bad stan steeL

Cool thanks!
That was my FIRST Dubstep beat I made it for a battle on rocbattle.com.
Debstep is ok in my book.

It is nice to see the thread end in smiles

there are some talented guys and honestly, the original dub-step was just so , i don't know, music for hipsters or what. Ya, there is a certain amount of monotony but there are some awesome stuff to steal from and if you can't pick those out, well it is too bad. You need to learn to pick out the cool stuff from every genre and there is lots in this genre. and there are some legitimate dub-step / electro hybrid artists that really did push the production bar quite a bit. Call if what you want, to ignore it completely is a reason why your productions are not better.

there is quite a few cool french artists doing stuff that isn't so wankerish as the americna stuff. Dilemn and company are great. And even the british guys nero have some cool stuff. I actually thought they were french because well brits tend to just not sound quirky but anyways.

"Ya, there is a certain amount of monotony but there are some awesome stuff to steal from..."

This.

I'll confess at risk of any credibility I may have (none probably)... I love Skrillex. It is some wild shit that when it came out sounded like nothing I've ever heard. Now 99% of the genre sounds like a poor attempt at him/it.

I'll also say I'd class it with stuff like Steve Vai. The pinnacle of the respective genre, but those genres are highly specialized territory that are more inpirational rather than 'listenable' outside the respective 'cult following'. That said I' worship the air that Vai vibrates, but it just isn't 'fun' to consume.

Nor is Skrillex. I agree with L4C's quote. Lotsa stuff to look to and steal, but as what happened to Vai in the late 80s/early 90s, the genre is just polluted by copycats that can't hope to surpass the original.

FWIW/YMMV ETC.

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