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quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk War crimes are pretty specific, by law. To be pardoned from them requires a fair few factors. Factors that don't include wandering off, alone, with night vision equipment, and shooting 16 people without being given orders to do so. The "orders to do so" part is especially important, here.

I'm sorry, but pretty much every point in this post is wrong. They're not pretty specific by law, nobody said anything about him being pardoned from them, and they would be considered "war crimes" regardless of whether he was ordered to do so or not.

I'm going to back to sleep. I just woke up from a nightmare where I was wanted for murder, possessed the world's only lightsaber, got caught and was surrounded my cops, cut my head off with the lightsaber thinking it was a dream and I'd just wake up, and then proceeded to not wake up while the same event replayed like 5 times even though I was then aware that I wouldn't wake up.

Stuck in an infinite loop

My point: He should be tried in an international court which handles war crimes. The end.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 I'm going to back to sleep. I just woke up from a nightmare where I was wanted for murder, possessed the world's only lightsaber, got caught and was surrounded my cops, cut my head off with the lightsaber thinking it was a dream and I'd just wake up, and then proceeded to not wake up while the same event replayed like 5 times even though I was then aware that I wouldn't wake up. Stuck in an infinite loop My point: He should be tried in an international court which handles war crimes. The end.

I don't think it's a war crime though. You seem to think it is. Maybe you're right. Is this even still considered a war? Aren't we onto the 'occupation' phase by now?

I've had the Take Shelter nightmare twice now. Pretty good shit. I need to get to sleep too....

I'm curious how this sort of behavior would have been treated during WW2.

Not condoning the act, which is attrocious, but war was never about being PC... but killing civilians was never "out of scope" at any point in any of the armed conflicts of the past.

I think that if we look at these wars of recent, the pattern of "reduce civilian casualties" is part of the reasons why wars are so prolonged and costly.

Just look at what the Allied forces did to Dresden. The barbaric nature of war, in itself, must serve as a deterrent from further attacks. History is full of shit like this - barbarism.

We'd like to think ourselves to be civilized, yet the reality is that most of the time enemy ISN'T. Do I think civies deserved it? Absolutely not.

But.

Had Taliban not fucked with US, they'd still be happy stoning rape victims, blowing up historic Buddah sculptures, and just living it up in their 13th century shit hole.

Well, you can't make an omlet without having few cracked eggs running around shooting innocent people. Or so it seems.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk But, which do you think is right? The international/political issue is kinda what I mean with this.

Doesn't matter what's right, the fact is the US government can't just simply hand over a serving soldier on deployment to whatever passes for a judicial system in a country they're currently occupying.

All it really highlights is that the US keeps its soldiers in-country for far too long when they should have been removed due to fatigue, injury and stress- on what their politicians term 'police actions'. The fundamental problem with using soldiers as police is that they're not trained to be police, they don't issue parking tickets, break up domestics, arrest drunks and all the other problems of society.
You deploy soldiers and they have but one solution at their disposal that they're trained to perform, which is to make everything you're pointing them at dead and broken.

Seriously, take any of you guys who are professionals in our society and throw you into another job, in another country that is completely out of your scope to perform and there will be little wonderment why you fail.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Doesn't matter what's right, the fact is the US government can't just simply hand over a serving soldier on deployment to whatever passes for a judicial system in a country they're currently occupying. All it really highlights is that the US keeps its soldiers in-country for far too long when they should have been removed due to fatigue, injury and stress- on what their politicians term 'police actions'. The fundamental problem with using soldiers as police is that they're not trained to be police, they don't issue parking tickets, break up domestics, arrest drunks and all the other problems of society. You deploy soldiers and they have but one solution at their disposal that they're trained to perform, which is to make everything you're pointing them at dead and broken. Seriously, take any of you guys who are professionals in our society and throw you into another job, in another country that is completely out of your scope to perform and there will be little wonderment why you fail.

All of these comments.

quote:

Originally posted by Lilith Doesn't matter what's right, the fact is the US government can't just simply hand over a serving soldier on deployment to whatever passes for a judicial system in a country they're currently occupying. All it really highlights is that the US keeps its soldiers in-country for far too long when they should have been removed due to fatigue, injury and stress- on what their politicians term 'police actions'. The fundamental problem with using soldiers as police is that they're not trained to be police, they don't issue parking tickets, break up domestics, arrest drunks and all the other problems of society. You deploy soldiers and they have but one solution at their disposal that they're trained to perform, which is to make everything you're pointing them at dead and broken. Seriously, take any of you guys who are professionals in our society and throw you into another job, in another country that is completely out of your scope to perform and there will be little wonderment why you fail.

Yeah, good points Lil, I can't deny that.

Is the US still 'technically' occupying Afghanistan though? I thought they had (for the most part) withdrawn? Though I guess that doesn't make too much difference, regarding what you said.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk Is the US still 'technically' occupying Afghanistan though? I thought they had (for the most part) withdrawn? Though I guess that doesn't make too much difference, regarding what you said.

The official US position on this is that the 'fuckin shit up quota' has not yet been met.

quote:

Originally posted by LAdazeNYnights The official US position on this is that the 'fuckin shit up quota' has not yet been met.

I read that in Obama's voice, and it was quite satisfying.

quote:

Originally posted by Ian Take the shootings in Norway, if he wasn't white then there'd have been a massive backlash, more than there was and he wouldn't be in a mental institution.

just fyi; Breivik is not in a mental institution, and is undergoing a second psyche evaluation (in prison) by a new set of psychologist because of the controversial decision of the first one.

Whoa, didn't know the COR could still make good political discourse. I am enamored.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk I read that in Obama's voice, and it was quite satisfying.

In before Kevin tells you how you should be reading it in Mitt Romney's voice instead.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk I read that in Obama's voice, and it was quite satisfying.

George Carlin read mine. Beat that.

Heinrich Himmler

Russell's voice

quote:

Originally posted by aNYthing I'm curious how this sort of behavior would have been treated during WW2.

Considering we were fire-bombing entire civilian populations in Germany and Japan, I'm not sure such an event would have amounted to much. News of direct actions during World War II was also highly restricted. It wasn't until the My Lai Massacre that the United States had to contend with blow-back from such events. The parallels are somewhat striking, given that My Lai originated from an incompetent military command structure based around a civilian population who made it very clear that our soldiers were unwelcome intruders. The difference is that this latest event was carried out by one soldier.

Still, he is one soldier who was stationed at a base where a couple of atrocities have already originated from. The soldiers responsible for urinating on Afghans and collecting their body parts were under the same command as Robert Bales. This is also the same command which authorized the burning of Korans. While it might be premature to claim a relation with the standing correlation, the fact remains that, from a propaganda standpoint, winning the war seems to be an absurd proposition simply because of these events. Vietnam's Hearts and Minds campaign is as much a failure as the sum of positive outcomes that have been attempted in Afghanistan; particularly in the face of numerous military calamities involving civilians. What is worse is that WWII had a clear moral narrative where its combatant nations could be cast in terms of "Good" and "Evil"; "Victims" and "Aggressors."

If there is a strategic advantage to holding the moral high-ground, the shades of gray issuing from the War on Terror serve to undermine it. Looking back on Vietnam, the Gulf of Tonkin Incident, which precipitated the massive escalation of our involvement there, was simply and explicitly fabricated; there-by conceding the moral high-ground before American Soldiers had their first major battle in La Drang Valley. While 9-11 functions as the analogue to WWII's Pearl Harbor, our betrayal of Afghanistan occurred much earlier, precipitated by the Soviet Union's withdrawal there.

Charlie Wilson had sewn the seeds with CIA involvement. The Soviet Union, as nasty an aggressor as they were, had little tolerance for Stinger Missiles let alone finding its soldiers skinned alive and still breathing. It left a vacuum in which competing factions, ultimately winding up with the Taliban as victor, would vie to fill. When Benazir Bhutto's warning to Reagan about the monster we'd created went unheeded, we had planted the seed of Staff Sargent Bales' actions. The short answer to your question is that the two can't compare because, in terms of moral complexity, WWII is dwarfed.

^^^ most intelligent reply I ever got on ta. Very insightful, thanks!

Gotta google some shit

enslaved are my girls that cant help themselves

slaves to the needle

do as i wish and i will prick you both ways

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