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-- this is what u make producing trance
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Glad to hear AE is not going under, but who the fuck are the people posting in this thread?

Again, it slightly annoys me that certain, well established people on post on here when they want to set something straight or see something that pertains to them but never post otherwise (like the the times when certain DJ's were accusing of playing premixed tracks and instantly certain big name DJ posts to defend his name although never posted anything of any use before or since).

If you guys lurk on here and can spot a thread within just hours of you/your property property being mentioned, then maybe help these forums and contribute from time to time?

Now that they've had a taste of success, they no longer have time or patience to mix with the unwashed.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Yes, god forbid that a successful trance label get airplay on popular trance broadcasts.

Good tracks should deserve a spot, I wish people would enjoy the music instead of the brand behind it.

Any music enthusiast that cares enough about the music knows about (and appreciates) the labels behind it. That's just the way it works.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney i find it incredible that the mastering charges are recouped from the artist royalty. Saw this twice on here in the last week. More so that artists actually put up with it or sign a contract that would not state explicitly that this is not something you can recoup. Boggles my mind why people would even bother with a label that even has such low selling people on their roster. I mean it is evident they don't really give a fuck or think you are worth a fuck.

I think this is what happens when you have billion bedroom producers with the attitude of "I just want to get released no matter what" and then you end up with a billion digital labels that don't sell any tracks and don't care about their artists.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney i find it incredible that the mastering charges are recouped from the artist royalty. Saw this twice on here in the last week. More so that artists actually put up with it or sign a contract that would not state explicitly that this is not something you can recoup. Boggles my mind why people would even bother with a label that even has such low selling people on their roster. I mean it is evident they don't really give a fuck or think you are worth a fuck.

It get's even better:
Royalties - Artist is entitled to 50% of net profit on release.

It always makes me laugh. And then they add 'costs' to the list.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller It get's even better: Royalties - Artist is entitled to 50% of net profit on release. It always makes me laugh. And then they add 'costs' to the list.

There are some good labels out there but not many.
I don't know how good the music sounds of the topic poster.
But i hear that most producers are getting a lot less than 1000 a year.
So this label is not that bad !
They at least know how to promote a product ,most net labels don't.

But yep it's a lil disappointing that they charge for the mastering.
Makes me wonder if other labels do that too.
I have mastered some songs for free ,just to help em.
Hope they didn't charge the artist for that hahahahaha

I think it should be part of a label's service to master the trax they release.
The label wants a certain sound as that gives them their good name.
So that last loudness maximizing and mastering eq work ensures they sell quality.
If i owned a label then i would want to do the final master.
That way all released productions have the labels signature ,the mastering.
But that would be in a perfect world where the label owner is a musician him-her self.
Nowadays anyone can start a net label.
And if they know how to promote their product then they get power.
The more power they get the less they do to help the artist.
Cos then their job becomes selling a product not improving it.

So most help you can expect from small labels.
But they have no selling power.

I even quit working with labels cos i got disabled for work 5 years ago.
So now i get sick pay and anything i earn gets taken from my sick pay.
With 1100 euro a month sick pay i need to get more than that to profit.
And you'll only get those amounts if you perform [live]
Or when you get a small hit.
So now i just create whatever i want and not build trax that suit their needs.
Creating music got a lot less stressful and gives me a lot more fun.

If you really want to be successful
1] Become a DJ next to being a musician.
Then you can promote your own songs by playing your music in your set.
Labels love that as you sell yourself that way.
Or be friends with a known dj who is willing to play your songs.

If you don't do the above then no one will hear your music.
So then you could have superb quality songs ,but get nowhere.
Not every big named producer his trax are top.
But they all sell cos those known guys have a name.

Nowadays it's all about promotion ,promotion.
Embed on facebook and anywhere you can to get some fans.
Ones you get high numbers of views then small labels might even contact you.
WHY ,because then they want you as you can generate listeners
Not only for you but then they want you to link them too.
So then your useful to that label.

It's not only about the music you create these days ,but about popularity.
We want the label to hype us ,but best do as much as you can yourself.
Thats why looking at your contract is so important.
If you only get 50% of net income and they do nothing to hype you.
Then your just giving them a chance to earn a buck.
And in that case you might as well start your own label.

The label mentioned in the topic has airplay.
Bad that they ad cost for mastering without the artist knowing in advance.
But that is a thing you can talk about and change in the contract.
They do have promotional power ,So it ain't all that bad
To take the negative thoughts away

PS

I keep my fingers crossed for you guys.
Hope the new owner has the same friends politics.
Cos if the Radio station is not friends with the new owner ,airplay is gone.
The former owner had those contacts to get airplay.
Doesn't automatically say they keep airplay if the owner changes.
Many times airplay is given as a favour and you need to be friends to get that favour

Im curious to know how much Timewave (Mistique Music) makes from his music. Anyone who knows? That guy deserves every penny!

quote:

Originally posted by PassiePassion I even quit working with labels cos i got disabled for work 5 years ago. So now i get sick pay and anything i earn gets taken from my sick pay. With 1100 euro a month sick pay i need to get more than that to profit. And you'll only get those amounts if you perform [live] Or when you get a small hit. So now i just create whatever i want and not build trax that suit their needs. Creating music got a lot less stressful and gives me a lot more fun.

not to pry into your personal life but it is kinda fucked that you get sick pay for 5 years. I mean if you are that sick, you should be dying ? I don't know. Maybe you have restless leg syndrome. The fact that you can make music tells me you aren't broken upstairs. I'm all for fucking the government but either you call it lazy pay(welfare), or retard pay(disability). Own up to it. I sort of thinking someone on disability who doesn't actually have a contract or make money with music is not really in a place to give career advice. But ya, get a job you fucking hippy.

quote:

Originally posted by Deillon Good tracks should deserve a spot, I wish people would enjoy the music instead of the brand behind it.

This is a far cry from "wrong on many levels" when someone simply acknowledges that AE tracks get a lot of airplay on ASOT.

quote:

Originally posted by Storyteller Any music enthusiast that cares enough about the music knows about (and appreciates) the labels behind it. That's just the way it works.

Exactly. And, any producer who cares enough about the quality of his/her work will strive to be on the labels that consistently release quality tracks and have a higher chance of being played on the likes of ASOT. And, just as a good artist is acknowledged for his/her work, a good label gets noticed for supporting those artists. When a label such as AE has a track record of consistently finding talent and releasing quality tracks, they should (and will) be acknowledged for that. That's also the way it works.



edit: for the record, I don't count myself among the talented trance artists that I'm referring to above. As I mentioned earlier, I did sign with AE and have a song being released on an upcoming compilation, but it is not trance/EDM.

quote:

Originally posted by PassiePassion Bad that they ad cost for mastering without the artist knowing in advance. But that is a thing you can talk about and change in the contract.

What makes you think that Mikka didn't know about the mastering charges in advance? He's been around a long time and has some pretty big releases, so I doubt that he signed over his tracks without understanding all the provisions of the contract. Besides, in my limited experience with AE, they aren't the sort of label who tries to screw over the artist. Quite the contrary, actually. They have been very clear and responsive.

quote:

Originally posted by Excess really good airplay on all the podcasts really, just depends on what type of track it is. AE is and has been doing quite well in terms of support from DJs

i mean that is great and all but there seems to be the missing link between that and people buying the tracks. DJ support is overrated. Especially the ones that don't play and name. That is why shows like say the one Gareth does actually doing producers a favour by playing the track and naming the track as opposed the the 1 hour mix with a track list which you have no idea which track is playing when. Those podcasts do nothing to increase sales.

What you really need to do is create a vocal track that can crossover into the mainstream. Otherwise it'll only ever be pocket money.

there are plenty of non vocal EDM tracks that make the pop charts. Well the UK and Europe pop charts. And as much as vocals will make something more palatable to more people, adding vocals to a turd will not sell more.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney there are plenty of non vocal EDM tracks that make the pop charts. Well the UK and Europe pop charts. And as much as vocals will make something more palatable to more people, adding vocals to a turd will not sell more.

Thank god. This gives me hope. Most EDM vocals are just terrible, worse than cheese usa top 100 crap.

There really aren't plenty of non vocal tracks that do well. Some do, but most include vocals.

And who cares if they're cheesy? This thread is about making money not changing the planet with deep music. Those days are dead and buried.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord And who cares if they're cheesy? This thread is about making money not changing the planet with deep music. Those days are dead and buried.

It's not cool to be cheesy, only sellouts make lots of money, and writing pop songs is too easy. Geez, Geoff, you're so old that you don't even remember being a naive 17yo?

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik It's not cool to be cheesy, only sellouts make lots of money, and writing pop songs is too easy. Geez, Geoff, you're so old that you don't even remember being a naive 17yo?

Sadly I remember it like it was yesterday

I had a Juno 1 and a DX7


And Superman wallpaper.

Interesting thread with some interesting information. I think the reason you never see threads like this is because most of our contracts are personal, and the labels don't want us spreading around how much we are making, or in most cases, how badly we are being raped. My experiences have varied widely. I've often thought about making a thread like this to let people know, because this question gets asked quite often. Lets just say I'm thankful I have my day job.

It's weird - the producing industry seems to have two extremes;

not making anything or at least not enough to live off, or selling out and making enough money in a couple of years to never have to work again.

For instance, I know the EC twins, and before they were famous or known. They were always a little cheesey but used to play some decent prog and house. When it became clear they didn't want to be struggling DJ's/artists a conscious decision was made to to just go big, regardless of the stigma or sell out accusations. They went from getting a couple of grand (if lucky) playing local clubs to $100,000 a gig, vegas residencies.

Why has the middle ground completely disappeared? There were plenty of acts in the 90's that made a decent living off dance music - not enough to buy the yacht and retire to the Mediterranean - but enough to pay a mortgage each month and put food in the table.

if you are good enough to make money with vocal music, you are good enough to make money with non vocal. That is why you release albums even if people buy singles. Because you can have a vocal track and you can have other tracks that might appeal to others. That is why deadmau5's 4x4=12 made so much money. It was all non vocal non mainstream electro except for one track. If you suck, you will suck just as much with vocals. And since you won't be making any money anyways, you might as well do stuff you enjoy.

The biggest issue with people not making money is more a question of branding and marketing rather than the actual goods being sold.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord There really aren't plenty of non vocal tracks that do well. Some do, but most include vocals. And who cares if they're cheesy? This thread is about making money not changing the planet with deep music. Those days are dead and buried.

A lot of times, it sounds like vocals are just an after thought in edm. "Hey, I made this nice track, let's throw some vocals on top to give it something extra!"

Pryda does this and sometimes it doesn't sound good at all. If you listen to the older version of Niton, there are no Oooohs or Aaaahs during the last breakdown and the song doesn't really lose anything.

That's the difference between "The Veldt" and "Stereo Love." Stereo Love sounds like it was written and produced so the vocals would take center stage and as far as the writing is concern, Stereo Love is much better.

In Mau5's mind, vocals come second.

Nobody said it was easy to write a hit, but I think sometimes that producers should stick to what they are good at. All of Mau5's best songs were instrumentals.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik What makes you think that Mikka didn't know about the mastering charges in advance? He's been around a long time and has some pretty big releases, so I doubt that he signed over his tracks without understanding all the provisions of the contract. Besides, in my limited experience with AE, they aren't the sort of label who tries to screw over the artist. Quite the contrary, actually. They have been very clear and responsive.

Of course I knew everything before signing it and im happy with the contract. Alter Ego is top label and as cryo said, very clear with everything

What comes to mastering cost, I dont even really care about the costs label is taking off the sales. Sales are so low anyway so it doesnt make a big difference. And as I have released tracks rarely, 1 track/year, im just happy to get the music out, dont care about the money really. Just posted this for fun and info to other producers.

@ cryophonik
I thought Mika didn't know cos i read some comments of folks who were surprised that mastering cost were taken off the income


@ Looney4Clooney
I will probably get sick pay for the rest of my live !
If you have a link with the almighty dude in the clouds.
And you want to change with me , go ask him i want nothing more hahaha

Before i got disable i was Warehouse supervisor as main job.
Had a great salary and boss in the UK ,so i was own boss in a way.
Then at ones i fell down and had an Epileptic insult.
I woke up in the hospital and got labled as having Epilepsy.
Always was healthy even studied to become a sports teaching when i grew up.
And i kept working on my job for a year and got 2th and 3th opinion.
Cos i didn't want to be sick and disabled
But attacks keep coming about ones every 3 months

The problem with my kind of Epilepsy is that meds don't help
And they can't operate it eighter cos they don't know whats causing it

Believe me this is one illness that you don't want to have.
I never know when the next insult will come.
So i don't even feel save alone on the streets nowadays.
And if i have bad luck than i even wet my pants on a heavy insult.
So i don't enjoy having that illness
Before i had a steady job and on the side i could sell my music to get extra income.
Now i can't even dj anymore because of it
If i get an insult i cant go to the gig So you can't lean on yourself ,thats not nice but very nasty

I'm not allowed to drive anymore as well ,that aint fun
If you have to work each day and hate your job then you might be jealous at people getting sickpay. I was very happy at my old job and loved my freedom Now i can't even go on a holly day on my own
So i lost a lot of freedom because of it
And i get a lot less income obviously since my pay as Warehouse Supervisor was a bit more , So believe me it aint fun to have it !!!

If you get disabled then you get sick pay for the rest of your live
Thats why you pay amounts of your salary to the sickpay institude.
Everybody has to pay if they have a job luckily most never have to make use of it. So the sickpay is not a gift ! Thats why you pay if you get income ,as security for if it goes bad.
So i'm not messing with the government.
I make use of the sickpay we all pay on our salary.
So i get what i paid for for 34 years as i was always healthy before and paid for that sick pay income all those years.

Those who rip off the government are not really sick.
I don't bite my tongue jut for fun and go knock out when i want
Ones you get this illness you are no longer boss of your own body.
You only get 80-100% disabled after many visits to the hospital.
I had 5 cat scans 5 mri scans and you can't fake an insult like i get.
So i'm not abusing the system in any way had lots of tests before the government qualified me dis abled.
So no worries the government don't make folks disabled just for fun.

As for a job > no boss wants me now , Thats why i'm disabled.
The boss can not count on me being at the job everyday.
Cos after an insult i'm out of order for a week.
So the boss can not count on me to get the job finished.
With Epilepsy you never know when the next insult will come.
So i'm far from a lazy hippy hahahaha
Even did volunteer work for a while to help another sick person
But got 2 attacks there too ,so now i don't do that any more
Cos the person i helped was very shocked because of my insults

So your thoughts are very unjust , I don't do this for fun !
Then i would be making music all day long and try to sell that.
Then the government would pay me to have fun
Now it aint like that but i'm more like a prisoner in my own home.
Everytime i go on the streets on my own i can get an insult
Then i fall down and go knock out and start shaking in bad cases wet my pants.
So there is a lot of shame involved with this illness.
You don't wet your pants as a grown man just for fun hahahaha
Or bite your tongue so bad that the tongue is 3times as big hihi

Not everybody fakes being sick
And governments do anything to avoid disabling someone
Cos ones your disabled then you get sick pay till your death.
And again thats not a gift
I had about 2400 salary per month but got 1700 rest all went to things we have to pay.
So i paid 20 years or so for that without using it.
Now i got disabled and get some back from all i paid over the years.
Thus sick pay is NOT a gift but a RIGHT !
Thats the reason they take so much from your salary each month.

Sorry to hear about your condition Passie. I can sorta relate, as I was born with a very mild form of epilepsy that is sometimes classified as petite mal syndrome. I had absence seizures a lot as a kid, but rarely have them anymore and they've become much less intense when I do have them now. Fortunately, there was never any need for medication in my case. I've studied epilepsy quite a bit, so I have a good sense of how debilitating it can be for someone with a more severe form, I can even empathize a bit, and I definitely don't think that you are taking advantage of the system.

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