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Originally posted by Trancelover03591 Honestly, my only thought when I see a list like that is 'Am I taking the right steps to one day get on it too?'. I just really don't care if someone is making tons of money regardless of who they are as long as they are doing it legally and as long as I have the same opprotunity they do. I think anything else is kind of petty at the end of the day.

But you don't.

- Steve Aoki's Dad owns the entire Benihana empire. Trust fund kiddie, that had a major PR firm at his disposal (not to mention serious Beverly hills connections) from the day he decided to be a famous DJ. Instant "success".

- SHM - the entire Swedish group of big EDM producers now, are all this one clique of semi-rich kids, that all went to the same school (it would blow your mind if I put up all the connections, especially the bit about Avicii going to the same school, but with their younger brothers) and keep it all in the family by leveraging that influence.

I could go on but very few of these guys got there by "talent".

I was editing something and accidently deleted it the original post.

Tiesto and David Guetta are in their 40's. I saw Steve Aoki started his label in 97' (didn't even know of him until 2-3 years ago). None of this came overnight or without work for any of them. Again, my concern is my path, not other peoples successes (or even privilidge).

And Avicii had nothing to do with SHM. He would have gone to the school 10 years after them and he got where he is winning a contest put on by Pete Tong fair and square.

about Pauly D's show. were there is a dj scene, you will either hear music for which they have a partnership with the label or catalogue music. Probably why you don't ever hear a mix or see a tracklist. They don't want to pay or promote anyone but MTV.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney the amazing thing with Pauly D is that nobody has really ever heard him dj and yet they managed to convince the world he is a dj and a great one at that. I mean there is nothing out there in terms of mixes or what not. They sure have kept a lid on his actual output. For good reason i'm sure. He is a reality TV star, that djs. Once the networks pull the plug on his show, dj career over. I'm sure he knows this too.

Again, the power of marketing. He claims he was a "local DJ" when asked if he was a struggling DJ, but no one has ever heard him play, and there's no flyers or club listings of this alleged DJ career prior to Jersey shore. He keeps very tight lipped on these early days, "ascending the local DJ scene" (sic).

He (er, his PR assistant's copy...) said he didn't even have to audition for Jersey shore; he reckons he was picked from his myspace page and then they invited him to be on the show. There's also very little info out there about his early life, but all the indications are that he grew up in a wealthy family (for Jersey) and had the disposable time to just hang out at the gym and spend inordinate sums on hair product.

Simply put, another trust fund kiddie that has a PR agency to write his history for him and sell a overtanned and under educated bag of douche to the masses.

There's honestly no difference to the likes of Paris Hilton or Kim K, with exception to the fact that MTV approached him, rather than him paying for a production company to make a show about him.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Again, the power of marketing. He claims he was a "local DJ" when asked if he was a struggling DJ, but no one has ever heard him play, and there's no flyers or club listings of this alleged DJ career prior to Jersey shore. He keeps very tight lipped on these early days, "ascending the local DJ scene" (sic). He (er, his PR assistant's copy...) said he didn't even have to audition for Jersey shore; he reckons he was picked from his myspace page and then they invited him to be on the show. There's also very little info out there about his early life, but all the indications are that he grew up in a wealthy family (for Jersey) and had the disposable time to just hang out at the gym and spend inordinate sums on hair product. Simply put, another trust fund kiddie that has a PR agency to write his history for him and sell a overtanned and under educated bag of douche to the masses. There's honestly no difference to the likes of Paris Hilton or Kim K, with exception to the fact that MTV approached him, rather than him paying for a production company to make a show about him.

BTW, I am not saying that I think everyone who is on the list is the most talented. My only point is that I don't think it is productive to spend time thinking about how much someone else earns.

If it were only about talent, there would be no need for a top ten because Looney4Clooney would single handedly satisfy the market.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN

Do you happen to know Tiesto's story? that'd be interesting to hear (read).

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Originally posted by Trancelover03591 I was editing something and accidently deleted it the original post. Tiesto and David Guetta are in their 40's. I saw Steve Aoki started his label in 97' (didn't even know of him until 2-3 years ago). None of this came overnight or without work for any of them. Again, my concern is my path, not other peoples successes (or even privilidge). And Avicii had nothing to do with SHM. He would have gone to the school 10 years after them and he got where he is winning a contest put on by Pete Tong fair and square.

Don't mean to be harsh, but don't be so naive.

Tiesto made it himself. Guetta did (kind of, up to a point), but I live in LA and know a ton of people that grew up with Aoki.

He was/is Newport Beach & Beverly hills royalty. He went to Newport Harbour (where The OC was set) and his Dad's Benihana was one of the biggest restaurants in Socal in the 80's and has grown to over 100 locations. His sister is Devon Aoki, the model/actress. It's pretty easy to set up a label when you have a massive trust fund and PR company to rep it.

As for Avicii, I know for a fact, he had a shoe in to the industry due to his family connections to Swedish clique that includes SHM. One guy I know wen to school with all of them, and guess what? he happens to be a major pop producer now. His younger brother went to the same school they all did and was Avicii's classmate. Just coincidence, right?


As for competitions? You mean like the radio 1 Steve Lawler comp where he was looking for a warm up DJ to take on his global tour? It was won by a really nice guy called Oli.

...Who just happened to work for London's most popular record store at that time, which also just happened to be the same place that Steve got most of his promos from and had been shopping there for a good 10 years. Again, must just be the planets aligning.

Wake up.

I'll say this: many of them do work for it. Tiesto is a machine - just look at his tour schedule. Aoki has put in time to use those connections so he could become famous. Guetta tours like crazy. Kaskade made some great music once upon a time and still puts in the time.

What I'm saying is that most (not all) of the guys on that list used their considerable means to "get on that path". Sure they all put in the time, but who the fuck wouldn't when you're automatically getting 100k to show up and pose?

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney this isn't exactly new.

I don't think you can really compare Scatman to mainstream hip hop artists, lol.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Don't mean to be harsh, but don't be so naive. Tiesto made it himself. Guetta did (kind of, up to a point), but I live in LA and know a ton of people that grew up with Aoki. He was/is Newport Beach & Beverly hills royalty. He went to Newport Harbour (where The OC was set) and his Dad's Benihana was one of the biggest restaurants in Socal in the 80's and has grown to over 100 locations. His sister is Devon Aoki, the model/actress. It's pretty easy to set up a label when you have a massive trust fund and PR company to rep it. As for Avicii, I know for a fact, he had a shoe in to the industry due to his family connections to Swedish clique that includes SHM. One guy I know wen to school with all of them, and guess what? he happens to be a major pop producer now. His younger brother went to the same school they all did and was Avicii's classmate. Just coincidence, right? As for competitions? You mean like the radio 1 Steve Lawler comp where he was looking for a warm up DJ to take on his global tour? It was won by a really nice guy called Oli. ...Who just happened to work for London's most popular record store at that time, which also just happened to be the same place that Steve got most of his promos from and had been shopping there for a good 10 years. Again, must just be the planets aligning. Wake up. I'll say this: many of them do work for it. Tiesto is a machine - just look at his tour schedule. Aoki has put in time to use those connections so he could become famous. Guetta tours like crazy. Kaskade made some great music once upon a time and still puts in the time. What I'm saying is that most (not all) of the guys on that list used their considerable means to "get on that path". Sure they all put in the time, but who the fuck wouldn't when you're automatically getting 100k to show up and pose?

I don't think we are really disagreeing. I am not a very naive person. I fully believe the only likely way of being successful is by getting support from people within the industry. Of course being the best friend of the owner of the biggest labels is easier. But being signed by way of demo's is another way.

My only point is that if one wants to be successful, the last thing you need to be doing is investing a lot of energy complaining about how the people at the top aren't talented and don't deserve to be there. It just isn't a mindset successful people have. If every DJ in the DJ mag top 100 was an heir it would be one thing. But if you got the real biographies of each one you would find that the majority of them came from normal backrounds. Corsten, Armin, Sander van Doorn, Gareth Emery, Carl Cox, Arty, Digweed, Sasha, Paul Oakenfold. To my knolwedge all normal backrounds. And Paul van Dyk was in East Germany without a father.

If all the Swedish House Mafia members started obscure and got famous as a group than how did they benefit from the other members in any unfair way? Does that mean if me and Richard Butler start a group and go on to be festival headliners that neither one of us earned it?

It is hard to discuss on a forum becauase it seems like an arguement. I think for the examples you gave (and I know there are plenty more), you are absolutely right (exept the Swedes who I am pretty sure have more humble beginnings). I think the influence of easy money and connections is higher than people would want (but is nothing new) but doesn't account for at least 50% of people who are successful. At that point, the stories of easy success are out of my control. That is what my view is

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Originally posted by DJ RANN But you don't. - Steve Aoki's Dad owns the entire Benihana empire. Trust fund kiddie, that had a major PR firm at his disposal (not to mention serious Beverly hills connections) from the day he decided to be a famous DJ. Instant "success". - SHM - the entire Swedish group of big EDM producers now, are all this one clique of semi-rich kids, that all went to the same school (it would blow your mind if I put up all the connections, especially the bit about Avicii going to the same school, but with their younger brothers) and keep it all in the family by leveraging that influence. I could go on but very few of these guys got there by "talent".

you just sound like a bitter old fart who never got his break.

this stuff happens in every industry, not just EDM so what's the issue? it's a big scene and there's room for everyone, who cares if a one or two guys had it laid out for them.

as for avicii, your facts are clearly off since it's well known he was discovered by laidback luke after posting tracks on his forum for 2+ years, SHM had nothing to do with him blowing up

skill has so little to do with it. But on the topic of skill , and lets just ignore luck although luck has a much smaller part when you have what i am about to talk about.

the thing people don't seem to get is that skill, at least with commercial art is a threshold that anyone with practice can achieve. And it doesn't take that long. If you want it, you can be good enough and that applies to everyone. And like any hiring process, they only really care if you are good enough. Being too good is actually probably a bad thing as you tend to find simple things unappealing and as a result make music that nobody gets.

The thing that matters, and some of you won't like this , is attitude, taste and that X factor or whatever the fuck you want to call it. Taste in that you like and are able and want to make music that people will buy. And being the type of person that just stands out. There are people, for whatever reason, that just seem more interesting. These are the people that make it. Not the guy that has alot of skill.

The reason most people never do anything is that they are just so damn normal. The way they talk, the way they dress, that no matter how much skill they have, it won't make a difference.

So if you think talent or skill will get you places. Well, i won't say it won't, but consider that skill is just a prerequisite. Everyone has it. Well those competing. That isn't what makes or breaks someone. Also consider that when people become too skilled, they have a harder time making it in a commercial setting. This is why most engineers where hired not on skill but on attitude. Skill , you learn. It is inevitable. They pick people that just have that feeling.

And that is why i can listen to someone's music and in 30 seconds , just by getting a feel for that person , you know if they are the type that will succeed. And not just say in the next year, but in 5, in 10. There are people on here, who i could say with confidence will never make it. Not now , not in 10 or 20 or 30 years. it is not because they lack skill although most are still at that juncture but that is something you can overlook. Skill is just not that relevant because it isn't unique or special.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney There are people on here, who i could say with confidence will never make it.

Is there anyone actually left on this forum? lol

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Worse than that, it's sad measure of our current society, when powerful marketing firms can force a product that is so bad, to be popular.

It's just human nature. Imagine if we could reprogram the brain to focus on people who actually make significant contributions to society, instead of just focusing on what is popular.

Bahaha L4C that Scatman video had me crying hahahahha I don't even know why but that shit was comedy.

I'm referring to things more like this:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kMJa3esOr1s

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Originally posted by topoftheworld you just sound like a bitter old fart who never got his break. this stuff happens in every industry, not just EDM so what's the issue? it's a big scene and there's room for everyone, who cares if a one or two guys had it laid out for them. as for avicii, your facts are clearly off since it's well known he was discovered by laidback luke after posting tracks on his forum for 2+ years, SHM had nothing to do with him blowing up

Out of curiosity... Who are you? Kind of weird your only post is this one defending these artists...

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Originally posted by topoftheworld you just sound like a bitter old fart who never got his break. this stuff happens in every industry, not just EDM so what's the issue? it's a big scene and there's room for everyone, who cares if a one or two guys had it laid out for them. as for avicii, your facts are clearly off since it's well known he was discovered by laidback luke after posting tracks on his forum for 2+ years, SHM had nothing to do with him blowing up

Not bitter at all, I've actually worked with a few of these people, and in my field, I reached the very top, and worked directly with some of the people and in the industry they wish they could get in to (film score).

I'm just pointing out that talent is actually little to do with getting on to that path, hence why I'm highlighting these bullshit "success" stories.

I used to manage a major PR so my view is actually of how these things happen, not how thier agency wants their life story to appear.

I also know enough people in the industry to hear what really goes on, and smell bullshit a mile away.

So which was was it? Avicii discovered by Laid Back Luke or was it by Pete Tong from a radio 1 competition? You think it's just a coincidence that ingrosso (SHM) worked with him as a complete stranger at the age of 19?

As I said, I know one of the Swedish clique, and it's all connected.

Nepotism is inherent in nay field - I have no problem with. I've used connections I've made to get me further. If I had family connections or went to the right schools I would have used them too, but don't just blindly believe the hype, especially with the current ilk of people labelled "superstar" dj's now. The moment it became "cool", certain people bought or used connections to get in to the scene, whereas without them they would be no where.

And hence why I'm stating this; the question was about their path and how to achieve it. Well here's the reality. If you don't already have a shit ton of connections, you'll either have to build the best moustrap using your genius or just graft away for years and hope it pays off.

That's actually what Tiesto did. That guy really worked his way up and paid his dues and made some great music. He paid the dues.

PaulyD? Aoki? Afrojack? Guetta? Not so much.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN So which was was it? Avicii discovered by Laid Back Luke or was it by Pete Tong from a radio 1 competition? You think it's just a coincidence that ingrosso (SHM) worked with him as a complete stranger at the age of 19?

he sent his tracks to laidback luke for 2 years before he won the contest. you can find his posts on the LBL forum under the name Avici if you don't believe me. why would someone who had ingrosso working with him in the studio be asking for production help on a forum? as a side note, if anyone here is actually interested in improving their production skills, i recommend not wasting your time with a bunch of bitter jaded haters, as you will get a lot further on laidback luke's forum where the vibe is positive and helpful.

secondly.
ingrosso worked with him and tiesto long after he became promient, he had opened for tiesto in ibiza multiple times by this point and bromance was number 1 on beatport. once again your facts are way off, but i don't care enough to argue with you, so believe as you wish.

as a final note, if you had reached "the very top" of the film scoring business, you would probably be busy writing scores for warner brothers blockbusters, and not hating on some forum about a kid who's made it twice as far as you.

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Originally posted by TyeDynamite Out of curiosity... Who are you? Kind of weird your only post is this one defending these artists...

actually i posted multiple times in a previous thread by dj ryan which appears to have been deleted.

uh oh

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Originally posted by topoftheworld he sent his tracks to laidback luke for 2 years before he won the contest. you can find his posts on the LBL forum under the name Avici if you don't believe me. why would someone who had ingrosso working with him in the studio be asking for production help on a forum? as a side note, if anyone here is actually interested in improving their production skills, i recommend not wasting your time with a bunch of bitter jaded haters, as you will get a lot further on laidback luke's forum where the vibe is positive and helpful. secondly. ingrosso worked with him and tiesto long after he became promient, he had opened for tiesto in ibiza multiple times by this point and bromance was number 1 on beatport. once again your facts are way off, but i don't care enough to argue with you, so believe as you wish. as a final note, if you had reached "the very top" of the film scoring business, you would probably be busy writing scores for warner brothers blockbusters, and not hating on some forum about a kid who's made it twice as far as you. actually i posted multiple times in a previous thread by dj ryan which appears to have been deleted.

Firstly, if I wanted to listen to Laidback Luke, then I would. But I don't have that kind of self hate or complete lack of musical culture.

Secondly, if had "worked" (ahem) with Ingrosso, I'd be looking for help elsewhere in any way I can. You have seen the future music vid of them right?

You can smell the fear of being in a big studio, through the screen. I mean it's just cringeworthy. Just listen to the things they say (aside from the fact they clearly don't have a clue how to use the desk in front of them). That's not a guy I would ever take engineering or production advice from.

I'm sorry but I just don't believe shit I read on a forum about their "humble" beginnings when I have it on good authority from someone who i trust and is heavily connected (i.e. grew up with and is working with certain Swedish artists right now).

Even so, don't be so Naive; posting on a forum and getting a helping hand aren't mutually exclusive. Joel Zimmerman, Mark West, Gareth Emery, Eric Prydz, etc, etc, etc, have all at one time or another contributed quite heavily on TA. Just because you're a sucesful producer doesn;t stop you from asking questions or being involved in discussions. In fact, that's exactly how Gareth Emery's early career was helped.

I'm not going to post my credentials on here but those that know me, know what I've worked on and who I am employed by and on what projects. I am not a composer, but a score engineer but yes, I have worked on many big WB titles.

Have a look at my posts regarding in depth surround mixing techniques and score engineering. You won't find info like that the from anyone else on this forum and sure as shit not on LBL forums.

Why am I here then? Because some of the info on here is right at the bleeding edge of EDM. There's a fair number of very talented and well educated people on here and no where else has the wealth of info for our specific niche.

in that pic, all the faders are at the same level. And for some reason they are reaching for the bricasti. And then you see their laptop. Which is their actual studio. The laptop isn't really the issue but their need to appear legit. Oh and some of the photos that where not part of the release, there is a fucking lighting rig. Kinda odd for a studio. I mean if it is a photo shoot, you sort of make it look like it isn't one. Or you look retarded. And they look retarded. 3 monkeys on a desk reaching for random pots. They've made enough money to build their own studio but i don't really get the sense that music is where their hearts lie.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney in that pic, all the faders are at the same level. And for some reason they are reaching for the bricasti. And then you see their laptop. Which is their actual studio. The laptop isn't really the issue but their need to appear legit. Oh and some of the photos that where not part of the release, there is a fucking lighting rig. Kinda odd for a studio. I mean if it is a photo shoot, you sort of make it look like it isn't one. Or you look retarded. And they look retarded. 3 monkeys on a desk reaching for random pots. They've made enough money to build their own studio but i don't really get the sense that music is where their hearts lie.

Exactly. The problem is (as shown in Steve Angello's previous videos) that he (and the the other tweedles) work all in the box on a mac.

So then they need to do a video for FM, and rather than just show what they work on, being the fist pumping DeeJaySuperstar twats that they are, they can't resist renting a big studio that they have no clue how to use, then talk utter bollocks about studio "techniques" which they clearly don't feel comfortable with.

I think the best line was ingrosso saying "we put the vocal on a separate fader so we can control it".

No shit. Things on different channels. What a revelation.

They would have been so much better off just sharing their screen for a tutorial and talking about a track they had made with softsynths, but their need for posing just couldn't allow it.

In fairness 3 monkeys reaching for random pots in a studio is pretty akin to what they do in the DJ booth so if nothing else, at least they are consistent.

I was watching the future music studio interviews today.

I learned more in the first 15 seconds of Joel Zimmerman's or UMEK's interview, than I did in 15 minutes of swedish house mafia's "I like this compressor. It's nice" interview.

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