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quote:

Originally posted by Mattsanity. ^Galaxy - Dreamland Ordinary People - Mahatma (The Lords & Ladies of Shamballa)

I didn't know the Ordinary People-track before and must say that I really like it :-)

Some more awesome classics:


Yellow Screen - Out of Time
Atlas - Compass Error (Tarantella & Redanka Remake)
Benz & MD - Radience (Original Mix)

Awesome and recent:
Sasha - Magnetic North (Richie G Space Mix)

some subpar garbage already.

but i will agree scot project has got great production skills, but... overdrive original mix - a masterpiece?! it would be far nearer the mark if it were the arome mix which stomps all over the original production wise and replaces that hideous cheddar cheeseball synthline with a brutal acid storm.

the epitome of bad ass. original can't hold a handle to it.

smart system were awesome!





these are masterpieces!

intricate and intriguing at the same time. time and space type of shit. not not cookie cutter club beat, perc and synth line.

there is good, then there is great. then there is masterful.



just came across this in an anthony pappa set. sheer bliss.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez some subpar garbage already. but i will agree scot project has got great production skills, but... overdrive original mix - a masterpiece?! it would be far nearer the mark if it were the arome mix which stomps all over the original production wise and replaces that hideous cheddar cheeseball synthline with a brutal acid storm. the epitome of bad ass. original can't hold a handle to it.

the weakness in that remix is the build is completely pointless. It goes to nothing. The original has a more elaborate form, more play on metric distortion. A Melodic component to balance out the more aggressive build.

Bad ass does not really make something a master piece. Neither are bad ass compared to say his thunder in paradise but O is well done. And that synth, perhaps cheesy at the time was pretty fucking raw and not typical in any way. It is only now because everyone has copied everything he has done that it is cheesy.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J

I bought that thing in 2008 and never once did I play it. I need to spend some time with it.

the arome mix goes nowhere?!

it is highly structured and the pure ENERGY at the end is the culmination of a superb arrangement. it's not some cheap ass melody!

and to "balance" out what is supposed to be an aggressive tune, in an aggressive genre is missing the point. it doesn't balance it out, it waters it down. the riff and acid stand in for the melody far more effectively here.

anyway, hard trance melodies are HARDLY known for its masterpieces! scot project tunes are all about the masterful patterns and arrangements, his categoric weakness IS melody.


this is a jazz club in glasgow




aggressive jazz bomb and stone cold classic.



and one from disco dinosaur joost van bellen!

quote:

Originally posted by rubez the arome mix goes nowhere?!

the build leads to nothing. It seems completely redundant. So yes, it builds and builds which is something one would do for anticipation. And then the outro. That is why i think the original is better designed. The problem with these threads is that they turn into , i like this track therefore it is a master piece. The B side is great , but there are things about it that to me are unbalanced. THe breakbeat start, sounds cool, but in a way sounds like something just added to be different from the original. in many ways the remix and it isn't a bad thing but it is meant as a track that leads to something else. THe original is a work that just stands on its own without anything else.

Regarding scot project and melodies ? I would disagree.

Club Bizarre
Yoji's Bangin Globe which was really done by Zenker
Outer Space
FM
Futre is now
R
Ding a long

honestly , that what characterized his music. Aggressive bass and drums and then amidst all that you eventually get something that is quite catchy. And that is why i would say his strength is form because everyone does melodies but the way in which he could do something completely non melodic that builds to these passages that are extremely melodic. All dance melodies are kinda derivative. But that wouldn't be his weak point. His weak point would be being too intricate and making it less accessible to many which is not really a weakpoint to me. And most of his tracks are the types that you have to play the entire track. When he was doing the more anthemic stuff, the djs playing his stuff, and it was everyone. In fact I remember some radio dj, british guy, can't remember his name but he was pretty much the biggest personality in dance for radio mentioned how it is weird how every single dj was playing his tracks as sort the mix highlight. The track you use as your sort of coup de gras yes he still seems to be rather unknown to a certain extent. EVery single one of his tracks from say Thunder In Paradise to FM where on everyone's playlist and they were all anthems one would use to say finish your set with something to remember. So i think melody wise , it was not a weakness.

scot project is shit at melodies - in a big way - even in a hard trance constraint. just compare them to anything from flutlicht and they become ghastly.

his best tunes are most definitely the dark ones.

the arome mix leads to one of the epic-est acid storms, a real take the roof off record that would be hard to follow up. luckily all music isn't so formulaic and shoehorns in a horrific melody just because people expect it.

that euro cheese melody of the original was unsophisticated at the time, now it's something for chavs

the melodies are the reason his tunes have not aged well, the arome mix negated this by ripping it out and replacing it with a ball of sheer energy, whilst keeping everything nice and dark and an emphasis on the brash percussion.

it's like minimal, except maximal.

not one of his best. But you are saying they are shit because 1 group had better melodies which is a matter of taste. Again , you are letting your bias get in the way of reality. Not all melodies have to be pretty. And that seems to be your criteria for good. Has was known for his melodies, whether you like them or not is irrelevant. He made stuff that was aggressive but seemed to chart everywhere because of the melodic content. Where as most of his contemporaries didn't. NOt that they were not good, they just didn't make use of melody as much as he did.

And in terms of what you might call cheese, i will call sentimentality, i think Flulitch and Shokk, as great as they are more guilty of that. Pretty much up there with alphazone. And what you describe as cheesy, and i've already mentioned my dislike of the track i chose's melody but because the rest of the track in a way a polar opposite, it works.

I think the take home point is that melody , important to a point is all rehashed in dance. Those pretty melodies where done in 98 - 2000 so when we talk about master pieces, melody is not really something that is as important for me.

I get that you prefer it. That is fine. But arguing over this is pointless. You state that things are bad or good without really giving a reason. WHy are the melodies bad ? or good. You just give reasons like, well so and so was better. Which doesn't really say anything. You don't like the chord progression ? do you know the chord progression, because SHOKK Flutlitch and pretty much every trance group at that time were using the same chord progressions.

if a dance tune charts, it's usually a bad sign, not a good one. usually means they have that one dimensional instant gratification cheesy catchy factor.

you can notice scot project melodies are shoehorned in - they are not teased. the tune breaks completely then a melody starts out of nowhere, usually that awful wail sound.

anyway, i don't know were talking about scot project and euro dance in a masterpiece thread!

that was something about his form that was different. Where as in previous dance, you would get a melodic build and then the whole thing. Which is why i picked that track. I love scot project but that is the only one , not even my favourite or top 5 but it was the one i thought had things about it that set it apart. And that is why i thought it was a masterpiece for dance music.

there is a difference between classic and a masterpiece. It is hard to find that in dance to be honest and if you do, it will be the early stuff because things just get done again slightly different.

i would say most dance master pieces are all 90s. There are some that pop up. A few tracks that are just unique in so many ways. But melody, well look, as much as you might want to disagree, there has not been any new chords or new melodies in decades. For dance, except the more jazz influenced melodies, 100 years. Melody in dance is almost always very simple, very sentimental and never an indication of a master piece. Look this is just the way I view it.

For example the beatles, although known for melody , that isn't what made them great. It was the fact that they mixed things that existed already , say those melodies in a context that was completely foreign. It was never the melody that made them so unique. Sure people remember them and i think that is was perhaps makes something classic , but a masterpiece for me, the process of evaluation is a little different.

There are some tracks in the 80s people would say sound like shit. Where is the 16 bar super saw melody and rolling bassline. But given teh context of when they were made, what came before, and then after, tbis is wbat makes something a masterpiece.

Tbat is sort of hard trance's weakness. It did some things that were great, but then just did the same melodies, but with more detuned unison saw waves. Iliked alot of it because i came from a rock metal background and i prefer aggressive music but i am aware the melodic content of it is all old stuff done again. Nothing new in that domain. I mean a say all dance melody is derivate, but hard trance just too the same thing , added a few more notes and voila. So although people liked it and it was neat, i don't think it was that special or novel.

And melody is so subjective. THat track posted , man with the red face, 3 note melody, But it is so memorable.Unfortunately it is the main theme from i think it must be a charlie parker tune. Anyways. melody has never been what dance is about. It adds to it but noobdy will look back and say shit, that dance track melody, damn .

Damn Looney even I'm getting sick of your posts

no need to get hung up on melodies.

dance music is all about percussion lead rhythm. that is the absolute basis.

this is why techno is so effective without the need for melody. can you imagine a melody-only tune? fucking boring.

though if WE ARE talking about melodies, i think this is certainly a masterpiece. a bone fide trance tune, embodies that classic shimmery effect.



the ronski speed mix is one of the best, it injects a sense of pride, but all (of the many) remixes are amazing, such is the quality of the base track they have to work with, they can't really go wrong. awesome!

two pvd masterpieces before he went to shit






to listen to these two, then the commercial trash of his new album makes me want to cry!

quote:

Originally posted by rubez can you imagine a melody-only tune? fucking boring.

Yea I can. Its what a lot of bedroom progressive house producers end up doing. I've seen tracks like this literally suck the life force from a dancefloor.

quote:

Originally posted by Guest Damn Looney even I'm getting sick of your posts

there is an ignore function. I'm sick of your avatar. You look like you have AIDS and that makes me uncomfortable. When you wear a black sleeveless shirt, that is you telling the world i am a raging cock cobbler but i remember you talking about your girlfriend. So ya, if you do have aids, sorry, and please try and analyze your shirt and understand why it is wrong for so many reasons. If you are gay, then scrap that , and go with the AIDS thing.

To Rubez, the funny thing is that when i use to dj, i always played his arome mix. I do prefer that version because it fulfilled a certain role few records do. So i do get where you are coming from. In fact scot project tracks where weird like that. They had intros that were always intricate like he really wasn't thinking of the dj. The intros would lead to a break of 4 or more measures which if you dj is awkward because it isn't 8 bars, the phrasing would be off unless you had it memorized or marked on a sleeve. his tracks where really not dj friendly sometimes. And they sounded different. They just didn't really mix well because they just sounded so unlike anyone else. You could tell a scot project track by the first 4 bars of the intro.

If you're focussing on percussion, my recommendations are rather not suited, because those tracks are mainly about melody and atmosphere while still having some kind of (average?) percussion/beat.

Imho, a really awesome track must have a great melody as well as great percussion/beat (both things are dependend on ones personal taste thus subjective). Starting off slowly, it adds more elments/layers in the further progress building up tension and finally results in a furious breakdown, releasing a great deal of energy.


Out of all the tracks you posted, I like the one by Sonorous the most, followed by Smart Sytem's Remix of "Over emotion". I don't enjoy the other tracks.

That 16B track that someone recommended is excellent one of the best ones I saw on this list...too many really old tracks

I understand that in the golden years a track sounds better
but there are many masterpieces that occurred after 2000
far more masterpieces from 2002-2007 than from 1997-2002
anyone agree with me?
I also noticed fewer masterpieces from 2007-2012

what u guys think of that statement?

quote:

-Originally posted by DodecaphonicSym That 16B track that someone recommended is excellent one of the best ones I saw on this list...too many really old tracks I understand that in the golden years a track sounds better but there are many masterpieces that occurred after 2000 far more masterpieces from 2002-2007 than from 1997-2002 anyone agree with me? I also noticed fewer masterpieces from 2007-2012 what u guys think of that statement?

I agree if we're talking about music in general, but a lot of people here seem to really like niche music. Which, as a general rule, is almost always best in it's early years when it isn't a solid niche yet and still has to draw people in by it's ideas and musical quality alone.
When time goes on the greater perspective is usually lost and it starts to become obsessed with itself, to the point were an outsider can no longer see the appeal because all it's doing is making minor adjustments and tweaks to a formula that's otherwise set in stone and allows for little in the way of real creativity.

quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld I agree if we're talking about music in general, but a lot of people here seem to really like niche music. Which, as a general rule, is almost always best in it's early years when it isn't a solid niche yet and still has to draw people in by it's ideas and musical quality alone. When time goes on the greater perspective is usually lost and it starts to become obsessed with itself, to the point were an outsider can no longer see the appeal because all it's doing is making minor adjustments and tweaks to a formula that's otherwise set in stone and allows for little in the way of real creativity.

That is a brilliant analysis Bierheld, it makes me think that you are really intelligent

I think what has happened also is that some of the better producers
are trying to synthesize different genres by adding more of an electro feel to trance tracks and by incorporating dubstep elements and other musical assimilations in order to obtain a wider appeal for their productions so they earn more dough... also as you were saying certain DJs master a formula which remains idiosyncratic to that DJ they not only just lose sight of alternative musical manipulations they become habituated to tinkering with their formula in a way that leaves little room for innovation...
Some producers are better than others in this regard
but I also think many DJs are focusing less on innovating
less on creating extremely euphoric tracks with a haunting atmosphere (my favorite kind) and more on tracks which make the crowd dance
the tracks which fit well with other tracks of the period
but not the kind of tracks with as long of a shelf-life
as what they used to produce

I am not really a fan of Electrance or the invasion of dubstep
but I respect its role in garnering a wider audience for the EDM scene

what producers do you think remain versatile in their productions rather than being blinded by their particular niche?

quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld When time goes on the greater perspective is usually lost and it starts to become obsessed with itself, to the point were an outsider can no longer see the appeal because all it's doing is making minor adjustments and tweaks to a formula that's otherwise set in stone and allows for little in the way of real creativity.

So that would make many tracks we heard in the early 90's where we had often something like "WTF is this?" masterpieces as they used sounds and melodies which were never used before in such a way.
Probably I would call many tracks masterpieces where younger ones probably would says they are just classics, because of the reason you mention.

quote:

Originally posted by Guest Yea I can. Its what a lot of bedroom progressive house producers end up doing.

Popular EDM artists as well.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J

That's awesome! Great track

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