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-- I can't pretend that digital is more enjoyable... maybe I'm too old?!
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Have you ever seen Danny play a 14 hour extended set? Mixing for 4 hours is draining, to do what he does over that period of time is insane. I think you are talking out of your arse. Djs with the auto beat match functions barely make a mix without mistakes. People that play all mediums will always be better djs than laptop jobber monkeys. The experience in all mediums teaches you how to keep flow, how to achieve tension and release. To be able to play while actually seeing the results of the music on people instead of looking at the waveform and waiting for a break to autosync. Every transition the same 1 to 2 minute then bass switch. zzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Just the fact that you say it is next to impossible on cdj tells me you don't know what you are talking about. It is pathetically easy even without cans if you aren't a hack that needs more practice.

Take the time to know your tracks and you can be perfect in any medium. Mistakes happen, but they are the rarity and not the norm if you practice enough.

How can you strive for perfection if you say it is impossible?

I would say it is impossible even digitally. People quantized their music differently resorting in things creating phasing regardless of how in sync they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney I would say it is impossible even digitally. People quantized their music differently resorting in things creating phasing regardless of how in sync they are.

Exactly. Again, I'm not talking about huge f' ups ot rain wrecks in a club. But to state some top DJ can play for 14 hours without any perceptible corrections is pretty ridiculous.

And I regularly play out... and 5 hour sets at that. Just did one this past weekend.

Perfection is always impossible in anything you do in life, but you can still strive for getting as close to it as you can.

I'm with ryan on this one.

Last time I saw Danny Howells play he was using CDJs and fucking up pretty badly.

i can see what you're saying but.... its 2012. not many people today appreciate the skills you speak of. they would rather hear some crazy original stuff, remixes, or a producer/dj. just a regular dj from the 90's mixing 2 records is too boring for people today. you can argue that turntables are more hands on and ppl don't like to watch a person push buttons. most people can't see what the hell ur doing anyway...

the thing about digital that is attractive is you can take music and change it. make it your own. and it makes things easy convenient.

im a turntablist I've owned it all. I gig on 2 technics and serato. kinda the best of both worlds. i

i use ableton and all the controllers too. but not outside the house. I just do little edits, extends, vips, and jam out if I'm bored.

There is a lot of shit out there in the digital music world. here in a min you will see some really good people break away from the crowd and maybe be impressed by a digital song.

The best djs in my opinion are musicians/producers/djs and can do it all. And do it all well.

turntables, computers, keyboards, cdjs, they are all tools the more you know how to use the better

I feel ya OP. I'm just now getting back into DJ'ing, and most everything was vinyl when I was more active.

That said, I agree that drifting and imperfection added some "soul" to the mixes. Other people hit it well - it makes it exciting because you're reminded of how easily it could trainwreck, of the care being given to the mix, etc.

I agree that digital opens more doors for DJs to focus on, but it doesn't mean it can't be missed. Good analogy is listening to a classic drummer versus a drum machine. :ducks:

It's been a while since I posted but how is everyone?

Sorry to say it but I didn't rate the example on the youtube clip, that was pretty horrible, but in it's time it was common place amongst DJs.

Looney4Clooney is right about the deck molesters, I enjoy listening to a good vinyl set where the guys/girl knows how to ride the pitch, makes for much smoother transitions and better corrections.


I moved over to digital completely about a year or two ago now. I still enjoy the act of DJing and have brought my head around to it. It did take a while as I was stuck in the old school of thought i.e. if it wasn't vinyl then it wasn't real.

Then I woke up and realised that I was living in the past, and what a redundant skill beatmatching was. I am one of those DJs who can match two records without having to recue basically. Just a few flicks of the pitch and it was there. But after many many years of repetition it would be a crime if I couldn't.

I like messing with 4 decks now, but always remain concious of the listener as they aren't always up for people messing with big tracks. There is an art to knowing when to mess and not to.

I miss the old days for sure, and there was a completely different status to being a good DJ in those days.
I would say that the art isn't dead though, and it's when you find out how to bridge the gap in your own mind and transfer the skills sets that it will all make sense.

When I transfered these skills I actually found a new enthusiasm for what I was doing.

I would say that the thing that put me off switching to Digital in the first place was other Digital DJs not the format itself. Probably sounds weird.

Ultimately it should be fun, and perhaps you just need to put your pre-conceptions aside and look at it for what it is.

Cheers
Nem

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 It's been a while since I posted but how is everyone? Sorry to say it but I didn't rate the example on the youtube clip, that was pretty horrible, but in it's time it was common place amongst DJs. Looney4Clooney is right about the deck molesters, I enjoy listening to a good vinyl set where the guys/girl knows how to ride the pitch, makes for much smoother transitions and better corrections. I moved over to digital completely about a year or two ago now. I still enjoy the act of DJing and have brought my head around to it. It did take a while as I was stuck in the old school of thought i.e. if it wasn't vinyl then it wasn't real. Then I woke up and realised that I was living in the past, and what a redundant skill beatmatching was. I am one of those DJs who can match two records without having to recue basically. Just a few flicks of the pitch and it was there. But after many many years of repetition it would be a crime if I couldn't. I like messing with 4 decks now, but always remain concious of the listener as they aren't always up for people messing with big tracks. There is an art to knowing when to mess and not to. I miss the old days for sure, and there was a completely different status to being a good DJ in those days. I would say that the art isn't dead though, and it's when you find out how to bridge the gap in your own mind and transfer the skills sets that it will all make sense. When I transfered these skills I actually found a new enthusiasm for what I was doing. I would say that the thing that put me off switching to Digital in the first place was other Digital DJs not the format itself. Probably sounds weird. Ultimately it should be fun, and perhaps you just need to put your pre-conceptions aside and look at it for what it is. Cheers Nem

Totally feel you.

What is your preferred format now that you've transferred over?

quote:

Originally posted by Ever Totally feel you. What is your preferred format now that you've transferred over?

It's all pros and cons to be fair.
To be honest, I would have to go with digital (never thought I would say that) as I am no longer constrained by the vinyl format. In other words I can play anything i can get my hands on, and throw in my own stuff and other producers whom I know.
I am no longer forced to be a slave to what is available in the record shop or what the wallet will allow as MP3s are fairly cheap especially compared to vinyl.

I know that CDJs have been around for a long time, and I know that many still prefer them over a laptop, but I found that its such a middle ground that I don't care for it.

I don't bother with beatmatching anymore, that's not to say I can't do it... I have been doing it for nearly 28 years, hopefully I learned that at some point. But I just enjoy the freedom of really working on track selection and smooth mixing.

Cheers
Nem

I've long been saying that the ilk of digital dj's have done very little for Dj'ing in terms of quality of music and performance.

I agree that the potential is certainly there; the point of beatmatching was to create a flawless timing transition between two tracks, which back in the days of only vinyl, was a skill in itself and bear in mind, that once upon a time, there were no video tutorials on how to beatmatch or dj. there were no such things as DJ schools. In the old days, you had to just watch other DJ's do their thing or be lucky enough to have a pro DJ show you how to mix. Beatmatching by itself was a skill that had to be learned and not many people (at least comparatively) could do it.

Now, there's really no merit to beatmatching as a skill - tens (if not hundreds) of thousands of people can do it, and with technology now providing the ability to do it for you, the need is moot.

However, the problem with digital comes both with the format itself and technology;

The possibility of doing amazing things in creative terms (now the technical aspects like beatmatching which once were difficult, are a given and rightly taken for granted) have not be realized IMO due to the drawbacks of the medium itself. The laptop in a DJ booth provides both a psychological and physical barrier for the DJ and the crowd. The DJ, no matter how much a performer or master of the technology is forced to look at a computer screen, detaching themselves from the performance aspect and the crowd. It immediately takes them back to sitting at a desk where the majority of computer use takes place.

By the same token, it's crap for a punter to go up and shake the hand of the guy "working the laptop". No matter how you try to glaze it, it's still the same - the crowd is listening to music, at least selected, if not played by a laptop. It's simply not the same as a DJ working Turntables or CDJ's where there is a clear tactile relationship and rhythmic element to what they're doing. Tapping the touchpad just isn't the same.

Ever noticed how guys working TT's or CDJ's can really dance and get in to yet, the laptop dj's all have that classic hunch and head-nod at best? This shit matters in a real club.

More options doesn't mean better music or performance. We've all learned that tons of development with FX and toys has not equaled either better music or DJ performances. Just more FX and toys. In fact I'm glad that trend has learned moderation - The novelty has worn off and the focus should be the music, not how many chains of FX you can slap on a track.

Same thing with DJ software. It hasn't brought the promise of this better music to fruition. DJ's on the whole have just got lazier or focus on the tricks rather than substance. Many people who never would have made it in the previous times due to lack of commitment or learning the craft or dedication of time etc, now can play out just by downloading a music collection.

Being forced to learn Beatmatching also taught you innumerable things about the nature of music and your tracks, not to mention, listening to your tracks over and over again, knowing those cue points, knowing those sounds, knowing the structure and learning phrasing the hard way. Now you can just look at a waveform to judge the cue point and people starting out aren't getting that baptism. Sure, you can learn your music in the same way as was essential before, but you have to make the effort to do it now and in that way, technology has offered easy shortcuts that can easily make you skip vital things that make up the learning process.

The final point of having more music at your fingertips also hasn't really helped music or DJ'ing as such. Even if you're jeff mills, You can only play 60 tracks in two hours and that means needing a total of what? 150 tracks to choose from? That's two record boxes.

If you're DJ'ing trance, chances are you're playing 30 tracks in two hours, tops. So why do you need 5,000 tracks at your disposal? I would much prefer to hear a guy that has truly learned and knows 100 in his box (and therefore a better understanding of how to work them) than someone who vaguely knows 1000 tracks and is really guessing with the other 4000, just in case they need that selection.

For me at least, great selection, timing, technique and performance are the most important things, not having a million tracks and tons of FX.

While I agree with a lot of what you're saying, you're generalizing far too much. Very few laptop dj's use only their laptop. You'll have 1 or more controllers. The only ones I've seen without a controller still use the club mixer, and spend more time there than infront of the laptop.
And I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I spend about the same amount of time looking at my screen as I would've used looking for a record or cd. Maybe even less. And the only time I use anything but my controller, is if I need to search for a song.

Hey Rann,

I used to share these opinions, but I have seen the other side of this, but I can only speak for my own experiences.

Much like you, I really don�t like seeing a DJ staring at a screen all night, but that�s not how I operate. The reason I don�t is for exactly the reasons you list i.e. actually coming from a different time when you head to learn your tunes in year head through repetition and practice.
I have opted not to really use FX and prefer making my statement through my selection, much like I would in the old days.
The worst thing with a lot of the younger guys is that they often try and fudge bad track selection with the use of effects and in the end it just compounds the issue.

I use a controller and this becomes my mixer, the laptop becomes my decks. I make a point of really only using the laptop for track selection, much like diving through the record box of old. Because of the ease of finding tunes I find I spend less time searching for music. I also can keep my face towards the crowd, often record boxes would be at the back of the booth.

I have always been quite a flamboyant DJ though and could never enjoy working just hunched over a laptop screen. But much of that has as much to do with the confidence and personality of the DJ as the medium itself.

I do hear what you are saying, but I think that you can get totally dull TT DJs too who just keep their head down and stare at the deck and mixer all night so it�s not really unique to the medium.

We both have been around here for a long time and much of what you write still rings true for me too. Always nice to see people putting together proper cases for their opinions.

Cheers
Nem

I saw John Talabot a few times this summer at festivals.

He didn't lift his head once throughout his set until the very end to say thank you to everyone.

He was playing on cdj 2000's and from what i could tell a couple memory sticks and some cds.

Did i give a shit that he didn't lift his head.... No, because his set was outstanding and the music spoke volumes and everyone still went crazy.

Would it have been nice had he been bouncing around on the stage a little more, perhaps. But I don't need the dj to be staring longingly into my eyes while I feel like he's reading my energy levels preparing the next stage of his set. I just want to see what tunes he thinks will work well and that's that.

quote:

Originally posted by Nemesis44 I do hear what you are saying, but I think that you can get totally dull TT DJs too who just keep their head down and stare at the deck and mixer all night so it�s not really unique to the medium.

That is totally right. When I played 3+ cdj's live i spent most of the time staring at the ceiling while making sure nothing drifted. Only did it a couple of times though. More than two cdj's in a booth is pretty rare in Norway, or at least used to be.

I'm pretty sure that I'm the only guy playing records in China. I have to bring decks.

It's a good thing fake 1200s/"Super OEMs" are abundant over there then. You could buy an extra set to keep in your car

I'm for sure the best DJ in China. That isn't saying much so far.

Hopefully I'll get rich by being average like i was from Europe.

I think you need to tone down the gay, and add a hell of a lot more ploink to make it big in china. Think like malaysian drums through a washing machine with a hoppy bassline. Trust me, they go nuts for that shit down there.

They loved when i played some Andres. fuck the plink plonk, they talk like plink plonk so hard gay it is.

quote:

Originally posted by Dykes_on_Jay I'm pretty sure that I'm the only guy playing records in China. I have to bring decks.

A friend who was living in HK once told me that records were banned in China. I always found his claim absurd. Is there any truth to it?

yes and no. there are guys with records here, but they tend to be dylan fans (collectables not djing.) Discogs is cheaper to ship here from Europe than Montreal so it's awesome. My gig last week i did the bye bye with the record (trance pose lol) and the motherckers ate it up. I might be married now, i just don't understand the language yet. Come visit. It's fucking donkey kong.

not to mention everything is fake here...except hairy vaginas unfortunately.

Jay, record something one of these times. I'd be really interested to hear what you're playing over there.

I will, when i get comfortable enough to truly play everything i want. Right now there are sometimes selections you guys might not approve of, but to play what i want i have to make sure people keep showing up first. I feel like a filthy jobbing whore, although I have been surprised at the reception of some stuff once they are completely shitfaced.

(Essentially i'm trying to assure my bankroll before I go and do something stupid like posting a set with Goyte in it on soundcloud...or even worse, but I'm not going to give you guys that kind of fuel) It's only a side gig, but a good one to meet women if you hardly speak Chinese and like stuff like free booze.

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