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-- DJ setup explained...by AVB
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I think he must mean using fader start vs. pressing play.

It does seem odd to use the fader up to start the track before it's beat-matched, as you would hear it until he corrected the mix using the platter.

I couldn't tell if he has the two extra mixer faders that aren't actually used for audio from each deck, but are merely acting starts for the timecode and audio decks. That would make perfect sense. Basically using 2 channels on the mixer as play buttons.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 I think he must mean using fader start vs. pressing play.

Well, that's kind of a given; whether you use fader start or press play, they both do the same thing, and there's always a tactile timing issue - I have a cdj100 and a cdj800 and they both have different response times when hitting play - annoying, but kind of good in a way as it keeps you thinking and given me the ability to adjust to CD decks I'm not used to when playing out.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 It does seem odd to use the fader up to start the track before it's beat-matched, as you would hear it until he corrected the mix using the platter.

I think he gets the beatmatch down on the cans, cues it up, then when he's ready to bring it in, he uses the fader start.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 I couldn't tell if he has the two extra mixer faders that aren't actually used for audio from each deck, but are merely acting starts for the timecode and audio decks. That would make perfect sense. Basically using 2 channels on the mixer as play buttons.

No, he has a custom made cable that is a 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack to 2 x 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack (usually called y-cable or dub cable) - this allows the fader start signal from one channel on the mixer to go to two decks simultaneously. That way, both the audio track and SMTPE start at the same time so the visuals and the music are in perfect sync. The only thing he has to make sure of is that once he's beatmatched the track, he sets the SMPTE deck to exactly the same speed with the pitch slider.

I think the two other faders are redundant or he I suppose he could use them for other input sources like more decks, but he's really a two deck guy.

Well that's all fine, but even if he has the incoming track beatmatched, he throws the fader, it starts playing live... you still usually have to correct the pitch using the platter before you really want the audience to hear the next track, or you might want to wait a minute before you start mixing it in... that would really commit you to "the audience is going to hear this, and now".

I know he uses a Y-cable for the fader starts, why not just connect those to say the outer 2 faders on the DJM-2000. You slide that fader up, the SMPTE and the Audio CDJ-2000's start in unison, but the INNER channel faders are what mix in the audio. Then, raising the outer fader is exactly like hitting "play" on both decks, and then using the inner fader would be cueing and mixing as usual.

You could start the decks with the inner fader down, so the audience can't hear it yet.

Make sense?

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Originally posted by DJ RANN Well, that's kind of a given; whether you use fader start or press play, they both do the same thing, and there's always a tactile timing issue - I have a cdj100 and a cdj800 and they both have different response times when hitting play - annoying, but kind of good in a way as it keeps you thinking and given me the ability to adjust to CD decks I'm not used to when playing out. I think he gets the beatmatch down on the cans, cues it up, then when he's ready to bring it in, he uses the fader start. No, he has a custom made cable that is a 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack to 2 x 3.5mm (1/8th) mono jack (usually called y-cable or dub cable) - this allows the fader start signal from one channel on the mixer to go to two decks simultaneously. That way, both the audio track and SMTPE start at the same time so the visuals and the music are in perfect sync. The only thing he has to make sure of is that once he's beatmatched the track, he sets the SMPTE deck to exactly the same speed with the pitch slider. I think the two other faders are redundant or he I suppose he could use them for other input sources like more decks, but he's really a two deck guy.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Well that's all fine, but even if he has the incoming track beatmatched, he throws the fader, it starts playing live... you still usually have to correct the pitch using the platter before you really want the audience to hear the next track, or you might want to wait a minute before you start mixing it in... that would really commit you to "the audience is going to hear this, and now".

I do that all the time though, and don't forget, the fader start kicks in at anything higher than 0, meaning you can just bring it up very low, do the adjustments as you raise the fader to audible volume. Also, Armin heavily pre programs his sets so he knows where he wants the track brought in. There are also numerous other options, like turning down the EQ's then bringing those in one by one etc.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 I know he uses a Y-cable for the fader starts, why not just connect those to say the outer 2 faders on the DJM-2000. You slide that fader up, the SMPTE and the Audio CDJ-2000's start in unison, but the INNER channel faders are what mix in the audio. Then, raising the outer fader is exactly like hitting "play" on both decks, and then using the inner fader would be cueing and mixing as usual. You could start the decks with the inner fader down, so the audience can't hear it yet. Make sense?

I get it, for volume control etc so you don't just have to slam in the track along with volume, but as above, the fader start will work on even a tiny amount so you can have them play without it being audible.

Of course, you could route the output of the CDJ back in to the inner channel faders to get volume control but I don't like the idea of it being passed through pioneer's incredibly shitty circuitry anymore than a signal has to be.

i don't know what i wrote yesterday, it was late. But even if you turn up the volume just a tiny bit seems a bit unprofessional what he is doing. I've seen him a few months ago and the mixing was pretty flawless so i think i can't blame him.

Oh hang on Ryan, I think what you were suggesting is to just have the fader start (to 2 x decks: smpte and audio) on the outer faders and have the actual audio CDJ output routed in to the inner fadre channel inputs to control the volume. That way you can "press play" with the fader start for the two decks (SMPTE & Audio) and then have discrete control over when and what level you bring in as a mix.

AFAIK, that won't work as I think you have to have the audio cables connected in some form to the same channel that you're using the fader start function on. I have no idea why pioneer does it like this and it may not be the case with the DJM 2000 but I know DJM800 and previous models fader start wouldn't work unless you has both the control cable and the audio cables connected up at the same time going to and from the same thing.

I'm sure there would be a workaround (i.e. you might get away with phono terminators) but I sure would make it easier if the fader start could be activated with just the control cable.

Rodri, you don't even need fader starts to do that. I've matched in cans and cued up on turntables with the fader down and been able to push off on the record and throw the fader and have it match. You just gotta be on top of everything and be ready to make any sort of minor adjustments if you do notice things are off.

It is hard to do, and you really have to know your tracks (and often its not a spur of the moment decision) but it can be done with practice, even on totally analog systems.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Rodri, you don't even need fader starts to do that. I've matched in cans and cued up on turntables with the fader down and been able to push off on the record and throw the fader and have it match. You just gotta be on top of everything and be ready to make any sort of minor adjustments if you do notice things are off. It is hard to do, and you really have to know your tracks (and often its not a spur of the moment decision) but it can be done with practice, even on totally analog systems.

Yes but even if you can do this well, you don't always want to just mix RIGHT THEN. Sometimes you want to bring in the track a little, take it out, you change your mind, etc. Doesn't make sense...

As for the fader starts... I can't say I've used them on my Pio's. I had tried them out a long time ago on Denons, and fader start was essentially just an on/off switch on the mini-jack cable. I suppose I could try it out, but I'm too lazy to hook it up

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Yes but even if you can do this well, you don't always want to just mix RIGHT THEN. Sometimes you want to bring in the track a little, take it out, you change your mind, etc. Doesn't make sense... As for the fader starts... I can't say I've used them on my Pio's. I had tried them out a long time ago on Denons, and fader start was essentially just an on/off switch on the mini-jack cable. I suppose I could try it out, but I'm too lazy to hook it up

Thats why I said its rarely a spur of the moment thing. You do it on tracks you know very well and its usually "I am playing this track, and I want to play this next track because I can do that cool instant fade in"

Usually its done on tracks where you don't really have an opportunity to match in.

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Originally posted by Joss Weatherby Rodri, you don't even need fader starts to do that. I've matched in cans and cued up on turntables with the fader down and been able to push off on the record and throw the fader and have it match. You just gotta be on top of everything and be ready to make any sort of minor adjustments if you do notice things are off. It is hard to do, and you really have to know your tracks (and often its not a spur of the moment decision) but it can be done with practice, even on totally analog systems.

I know it's possible as i have said i've the tendence to press play a bit earlier than it should but i can fix it very quickly, in fact is what i do i beatmatch on the cans and when a new phrase starts i press play and quickly adjust to have it ready, then i keep it matched until i want to drop it.

Thing is that i'd not press play with the fader up in front of a big audience, just in case things go wrong like it happened to him in the video, although on a bigger system minor mismatchs are less noticeable with all the bass around.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Yes but even if you can do this well, you don't always want to just mix RIGHT THEN. Sometimes you want to bring in the track a little, take it out, you change your mind, etc. Doesn't make sense... As for the fader starts... I can't say I've used them on my Pio's. I had tried them out a long time ago on Denons, and fader start was essentially just an on/off switch on the mini-jack cable. I suppose I could try it out, but I'm too lazy to hook it up

But if you're only bringing it in a couple of mm, then you wouldn't hear it yet on the PA, then you can check the cans and bring it in (fadre further up) as you like.

Of course, the easiest thing would be to check if the fader start works without the audio being connected to that same channel. If it does work with just having the control cable plugged in (and the audio output from the other CDJ going to another fader on the mixer) then problem all solved - you've got one "dual start fader" and one fader to then control the audio.


I just checked the video though, and it seems he does just use the same channel for fader start and audio volume control - he's not routing the CDJ to the other fader for discrete volume control.

Weird.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN But if you're only bringing it in a couple of mm, then you wouldn't hear it yet on the PA, then you can check the cans and bring it in (fadre further up) as you like. Of course, the easiest thing would be to check if the fader start works without the audio being connected to that same channel. If it does work with just having the control cable plugged in (and the audio output from the other CDJ going to another fader on the mixer) then problem all solved - you've got one "dual start fader" and one fader to then control the audio. I just checked the video though, and it seems he does just use the same channel for fader start and audio volume control - he's not routing the CDJ to the other fader for discrete volume control. Weird.

Even if the mixer requires this, hey just hookup the analog out of the CDJ to the fader start channel, and digital out to the audio channel. Turn the gain down on the fader start channel to 0.

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Originally posted by Ryan0751 Even if the mixer requires this, hey just hookup the analog out of the CDJ to the fader start channel, and digital out to the audio channel. Turn the gain down on the fader start channel to 0.

I take it you mean "digital out of the CDJ to the digital input on the volume fader" (not the fader start channel).

That should certainly work but it seems he's not doing that, especially as according to the video he has the SMPTE on the other fader.

It seems he's just bringing in that one fader for both start and volume.

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Originally posted by DJ RANN I take it you mean "digital out of the CDJ to the digital input on the volume fader" (not the fader start channel). That should certainly work but it seems he's not doing that, especially as according to the video he has the SMPTE on the other fader. It seems he's just bringing in that one fader for both start and volume.

Well he's clearly doing it wrong.

don't really get the point of smpte unless it is already planned or you have one master out. The system overall is pretty ghetto considering the performer. I mean an 8700 GX or wholehog would do this without the mess of pointless protocol that relies on a dj who will fuck up. And maybe i didn't pay attention but are they actually using an akai to trigger visuals from a laptop. Fucking ridiculous.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney don't really get the point of smpte unless it is already planned or you have one master out. The system overall is pretty ghetto considering the performer. I mean an 8700 GX or wholehog would do this without the mess of pointless protocol that relies on a dj who will fuck up. And maybe i didn't pay attention but are they actually using an akai to trigger visuals from a laptop. Fucking ridiculous.

But this is just using SMPTE for video, the video has lyrics in it, which need to be synced up to the audio. The audio is started and controlled by the DJ, and the audio can be slowed down, edited, modified on the fly by the DJ.

How would a light controller help with this? I mean yes, you can have your light controller output DMX/Art-Net/etc. to trigger the video starting in whatever video program you're using (Resolume, Module8, whatever), but it needs to sync with your audio.

The Akai is actually pretty common for VJ's, it's pre-mapped in at least Arkaos and a few other apps. I assume this VJ actually has other controls and the liberty to play them on the fly, just like the light jockey does. There's probably many displays that also need to be controlled.

Seems like a fairly solid setup to me.

just seems really really ghetto for someone that is paid quite a bit. I was assuming he was controlling lights as well.

As far as the smpte, why not just send both on the audio ones and then mix them at the lighting console.

I don't know. It just seems kinda uninspired.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney just seems really really ghetto for someone that is paid quite a bit. I was assuming he was controlling lights as well. As far as the smpte, why not just send both on the audio ones and then mix them at the lighting console. I don't know. It just seems kinda uninspired.

DJ's shouldn't control lights. Lights are an art in themselves!

What do you mean send both on the audio ones?

I don't know how I feel about the whole lyrics on the screen. It makes people stare at them. Not really dance.

i mean the video / light guy. Surely he can do more than sequence video to the tracks. You would never see this sort of set up with say an actual pop act with a real tour manager and real problems.

What i don't get is why you need 2 extra devices to send the smpte signal that would be sent from the ones playin the audio in the first place. Then use a broadcast switcher.

I will level that i really didn't pay too much attention to the video. But what i gather, he has certain tracks where the time code lines up with coded video so that they sync for lyrics. So it isn't just a mater of sending a master clock.

I just find the setup really limiting. Using a laptop to me seems like a bad idea for big tours. And I agree with the lyrics on the screen. But i have a feeling there are many minutes with no drums where people need something to flail to.

I bet there are far more elegant solutions to combine vdj'ing and mixing, in different screen ratios, without using smtpe and players that cost the equivalent of a year and a half of gas. For someone who's been using Mixmeister to make his radio shows, he sure seems to have a hard time letting go of the "good old" cdj's, insteading of spearheading the inevitable transition to digital. But I guess that is the folly of trance - forever ten years behind. But it's been a good run, even though the last five year has mostly been for show. What's left are forced riffs and shitty chord progressions, and rehashes of old ideas. ALl the good melodies are already taken. But dunkelfuck van buren, like his hair due, is out of style. And like in South Africa, only a few torpid dutch men still stand their ground while outside the comfort of their gated community they are yelling "Kill the epic cheeser". He has indeed built himself a fine armada. It's just a shame building ships out of wood went out of style a long time ago, so when matched up against the metallic clang of industrial techno, there's little but a few scared sailors helplessly holding on to the driftwood that once was The Great Armada, a shimmer of acceptance that this is the end in their eyes. Goodbye brave sailor, it's time to cast loss.

I really like CDJs. I feel a lot more in control of cueing and also jogging the tracks BPM up or down slightly to correct any small timing errors. If I ever DJ live I wouldn't want to use a laptop, but that is just a personal preference. I don't think that is living in the past the same way playing dated music is. Rather, I think it is the same as someone who prefers hardware to digital synths.

Also, I prefer creating riffs and melodies on a midi controller rather than with a mouse on a piano roll. The mere act of using the keys gives the feel of more control over the velocity of the notes, the rhythm and the length of the notes. I can more quickly try new ideas. When I find one I like, I then plot the notes on the piano roll. If I had the money, I would use as much hardware as possible to control FL Studio physically with knobs and such.

I'm back to computerless DJ�ng
using my 900's and Prolink

started with the 900's in HID mode in traktor, but laptop lid closed and 1 64GB USB stick is so much more fun.

[IMG] [/IMG]

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Originally posted by Raphie I'm back to computerless DJ�ng using my 900's and Prolink started with the 900's in HID mode in traktor, but laptop lid closed and 1 64GB USB stick is so much more fun. [IMG] [/IMG]

Tis true. I'm keeping Traktor around so I can continue to use my 1200's as well. But the last few times I played out, I lugged my 2000's to the club. It was a whole lot quicker to set up than timecode!

There's a slight flaw (or inconvenience) with the technique he's using here...

Fader start will only *start* his SMPTE signal at the same time as the track he's playing, it won't actually keep it in time... at 7:20, he adjusts the audio deck, but not the SMPTE deck - so the SMPTE deck will be slightly out of time. The more he has to adjust, the further out it'll be...

Of course he could adjust the SMPTE one at the same time, but the only cue he's got of whether it's in sync or not is the time display.

Yes, that's true. Guess you wait for a non-vocal track to pitch up the mix

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