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-- Classic/'00 Trance Vs. Now Trance - Opinions!
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I never really did what those hipsters did though. It always seemed like common courtesy to enjoy what other people feel is personally theirs and special to them. So when people show me their music, I get into their music too. And I force myself to enjoy it. But seriously, if their music is absolutely horrible and I can't like it no matter how hard I try, then I usually just be modest about it.

The thread has gone terribly offtopic, and that's all because of my fault when I was introducing comparisons with Classic Trance vs Modern Trance.

I beg all your forgiveness.

I like all of it. There is good stuff and bad stuff from every era.

All music evolves and changes, though, and it's silly to expect any genre to remain the same for a decade.

quote:

Originally posted by Quazar I like all of it. There is good stuff and bad stuff from every era. All music evolves and changes, though, and it's silly to expect any genre to remain the same for a decade.

Tell that to deep house.

There's quite a simple answer. "Trance music" was and is litterally meant to put you into trance by a constant rhythm. This is the fundamental goal and judging by that the old stuff is way better than the new stuff.

Simply put:
complex melodies kill trance
breakdowns kill trance
dominant vocals kill trance
thinking kills trance

Rhythm, drums, constant repetition, simple and subtle changes... That's necessary. The further you go away from that the less the music is Trance!

I feel sorry for trance, its hits a brick wall, same thing happening with progressive house. So hard to get excited. Ultimately shit gets doomed, such is life. Timewave came out and was doing pretty fresh things, he needs more applause! Deep soul duo are also doing some nice things, they seem dedicated; also solar fields come to mind. I dont really follow much trance anymore, I lost care. Hopefully someone will shed more fresh shit here in the future I can get into.

quote:

Originally posted by DJSoulstone There's quite a simple answer. "Trance music" was and is litterally meant to put you into trance by a constant rhythm.

I always saw trance as synthesizer music with a disco beat and think that description fits from early 90's till today.
Maybe they just should have called it Synthidance or Synthidisco.

quote:

Originally posted by DJSoulstone thinking kills trance

My honest reaction:


Well, that does not sound good. Here I thought trance was THE thinking genre.

In terms of non psytrance, I only really like 92-95 trance much. There's 10-20 decent 97-2001 era songs but that's really not many and I haven't heard a single good album from that era. Modern trance I've found so boring that pop music tends to be better.

Also as for what "trance" was meant to do. According to who exactly? Chances are people were just making a type of music they liked, thought would be interesting to dance to and etc. I doubt there was ever much of a conscious goal (apart from maybe, "I want this music to be good to dance to"). Unless you can find quotes from 5 or even one famous producer(s) of insert year from 92 to 2012 saying what trance is "meant" to do is total bullshit.

As for the complexity of trance, here's my opinion:
How complex a piece of music, or let alone a whole genre is is a very complicated and subjective thing. Complexity is most definitely not linked to how many different sounds there are in music. There's also rhythmic complexity (for the record classical music has very very little rhythmic complexity), how complex the melodic and harmonic progressions are etc. It's certainly possible that despite 95 trance having less things going on at once the types of chords and progressions they used were far more complicated than I'm gonna press random buttons on my keyboard and put in whatever sounds ok 2012 trance.

It's most certainly possible for minimal techno to be more complicated than regular techno for instance despite having far less elements due to a lot more thought being put into the arrangement of those few elements.

Regardless, it's subjective as hell and unless someone wants to plot out the rhythms and chord progressions of 3 93-95 trance songs vs 3 modern trance songs the discussion isn't really gonna progress much past "well vaguely that sounds more complex than this does".

Also, anyone who is interested in this subject and doesn't know much about music theory (which would definitely include me) you should watch this doco. It's very interesting and informative. There are 4 roughly 1 hour long parts which have been split into sub parts for youtube.

quote:

Originally posted by jvs The question therefore was: is the complex version of the same thing better than the simpler version of the same thing? As far as artforms are concerned (and pets aren't an artform, I'm sorry, but they aren't, unless we talk about digital pets that is to say..) this is a question of progress -- what would you like to see in the future? What is MORE EXCITING to see in the future? Would you like to see another unexplored possibility within the same level of complexity? Or would you rather prefer a higher complexity, a wider realm of possibilities, possibilities that reside beyond what can currently be easily imagined/predicted?

I'd prefer both. It's not like there's only one song being made. It can vary by artist. It can vary by which song they make. It'll be good to have some artists that have lots of elements, some that focus on getting a melody that's of an interesting emotion and lots that do music that's in between or varies in other ways. It's not like you can only have one of those two things you mentioned.

As for actually answering the question though, modern trance is simple as hell, regardless of what happens I'd only bother with it if it was far more complex.

Complexity is basically how many changes there are in a song, but remember -- not every change is meaningful. There is such a thing as real (meaningful) and fake (meaningless) complexity. For example, Eternal Light (2011) is a track that has a lot of changes in it but most of which are unfortunately meaningless, rendering it at best mediocre. That's why simpler tracks, such as The Orange Theme (1994), often give more pleasure than seemingly complex ones.

That said, the far more important question is whether a good complex track is better than a good simple track, or in other words, whether a complex track is better than a simple track GIVEN THAT ALL ELSE IS EQUAL. Get it?

As for subjectivity, EVERYTHING is subjective. There is no such thing as "objectivity" -- that's merely our dear scientists' prejudice. So now you may ask how do people reach agreement? And the answer is very simple: agreement is only possible among people of the same level of intelligence, that is to say, among equals. This is, of course, speaking of real, honest agreement. As for reaching the so-called universal agreement, the way that works is through force -- basically, the people with power shove their opinions down the throats of the weak, that is to say, rabble. That's what scientists do after all. I mean what else is the claim of "objectivity" used for?

And that's why everyone is yapping about how classical music is good even though they don't really enjoy it themselves -- because it was forced upon them by the stronger. And that's why everyone is yapping about how "classic trance" is better than modern trance even though they don't really enjoy it themselves -- because it was forced upon them. And that's why everyone is going to be yapping everything I'm saying right now in next 10 years -- because I will force it upon them.

I like Trance Music

I miss when trance music sounded like "techno" (eg. Jet Set & Plastic Angel - Lost In Trance)

reach for the lasers safe as fuck

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Trance is not, and has never been, complex music. And dozens of channels on the sequencer do not make a track more complex.

It's a rarity, but I agree with you here. Trance to me has been about the ability to make simplistic sounds sound more complex than they are, or to make the conscious mind believe they are.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Tell that to deep house.

Newer deep house like Tale of Us, Hot Since 82, Subb-Ann, etc. doesn't really sound like the deep house of the past. So yeah, I'd say deep house has changed, too.

quote:

Originally posted by Mattsanity. I miss when trance music sounded like "techno" (eg. Jet Set & Plastic Angel - Lost In Trance)

Still love that track

new trance is devoid of any emotion and therefore enjoyment.

it's clinical and crap.

the people who replaced the older heavyweight big names, are young jumped up bedroom producers following a template.

trance, basically, no longer exists.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez new trance is devoid of any emotion and therefore enjoyment. it's clinical and crap. [..] trance, basically, no longer exists.

And the thing you don't quite comprehend (or the thing you are not willing to admit, you make a pick), you fucking imbecile, is that from a perspective of someone who has listened and enjoyed a lot of music that came before trance music, from a perspective of someone who, say, grew up with jazz and rock & roll, ALL TRANCE MUSIC, from 1990 to 2013, is "devoid of any emotion and therefore enjoyment".

And rightly so: these people have accustomed themselves to a higher-level of complexity because of which they are not willing to descend to a primitive level of pleasure. Beside that, they have no feeling of nostalgia for the genre, as they didn't grow up with it, and they are, for some very strange reason, not very excited about the possibilities that electronic music offers. And so, they don't give a shit about it.

BUT THEY STILL CAN TELL THAT A MODERN TRANCE IS MORE COMPLEX AND MUCH BETTER THAN THE UTTERLY PRIMITIVE SHIT YOU LISTENED TO WHEN YOU WERE A FUCKING KID WITH NO FUCKING TASTE WHATSOEVER.

I mean, for fuck's sake, if Armin's "Mirage" is devoid of emotion and some utter piece of crap such as Humate's "Lol Stimulation" is full of emotion, then there is nothing here at play other than pure fucking nostalgia. Nostalgia coupled with complete lack of passion for music that is to say, since, you see, there is nothing wrong with not liking modern trance music EVEN IF YOU LIKED THE OLDER ONE, but it is a huge problem if you're going to argue that the primitive music from 90's has been somehow better.

It hasn't been, you fuckface.

The modern trance is progressing, but at a slow pace and without a clear direction.

(btw, all you Solar Fields, Ovnimoron and "prog"psy fags: that music stinks even moreso than primitive trance from 90's; it's for people who hate music and thus have no passion whatsoever to pretend they are sophisticated; YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST KIDS)

Gosh, but you're boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Mattsanity. I miss when trance music sounded like "techno" (eg. Jet Set & Plastic Angel - Lost In Trance)

hey you got anymore where that came from? that was an awesome track

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Pluviose hey you got anymore where that came from? that was an awesome track

I knew it because it's also on Trancemaster 16: http://www.discogs.com/Various-Tran...6/release/41147

Maybe you like some more on that compilation. I'm not saying the other tracks are similar to Lost in trance though.

modern trance is more complex?!

that's complete, utter and total BS.

what like 'one million voices'? utter garbage!!

new trance is made from wannabe's sat in their bedroom copying each other. it's all the same - dull and uninspired.

ferry, pvd etc 'moved with the times' to stay in a job. their new stuff is complete throw away junk aimed at the charts.

they see SHM, guetta, deadmau5 etc making ten times what they make and want to try cash in, but have failed.

you can have all the technical skills in the world, but if you don't have the magic, you're fucked as far as credible music goes.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Pluviose hey you got anymore where that came from? that was an awesome track

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fod1z_S11kM

or considering how lost in trance is 160 bpm, you can check out this youtube mix

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v86b...&feature=relmfu

quote:

Originally posted by rubez modern trance is more complex?! that's complete, utter and total BS. what like 'one million voices'? utter garbage!! new trance is made from wannabe's sat in their bedroom copying each other. it's all the same - dull and uninspired. ferry, pvd etc 'moved with the times' to stay in a job. their new stuff is complete throw away junk aimed at the charts. they see SHM, guetta, deadmau5 etc making ten times what they make and want to try cash in, but have failed. you can have all the technical skills in the world, but if you don't have the magic, you're fucked as far as credible music goes.

Do people these days even know the word "most" exists?

strictly specking for myself i don't like it when styles become sensationalized and commercialized. seems like the style has a whole has sold out. armada music, Spinnin' Records, need i say more? When searching through trance/Prog mostly look back and dig through tracks in the 97-2002 range. there was plenty of commercialization back then too but i find it easer to weed through the crap when its already a couple of years old. good music will always shine through.

on another note it seems like the overall catch of the music has changes form the 90s till now. in the 90s i remember liking tracks that reminded me of the Unknown, UFOs, ETs, Etc.. simple tracks that made mo body feel made my mind wonder. seems like there has been a switch in feel. to a much more human aspect (I miss you/ everybody have a good time songs). energy level and structure driven tracks. theres not a lot of experimentation going on in trance now a days aside from having a dubstep drop which is a crowd pleasing cheep cop-out IMO.

i will also have you know i am on my floor drunk. so there is probably a lot of loop-hole in my post.

and another thing people should use inter net forums more.

and another thing ... look a beer.

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