Which one is better to start with??Turn table or Cd Player

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-- Which one is better to start with??Turn table or Cd Player
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Posted by kiddiejon on Sep-24-2002 17:42:

quote:
Originally posted by DJErnieP
oh yeah and i will be the first one to tell you that if you do use CD's your not a DJ, your just a fucking button pusher.

lol, a LOT of people will dissagree with u there, every1 says that no skill is required if you're a cdj.. when actually it's more a case of the opposite..

as somebody else mentioned you dont actually have phyisical contact with the tune (unless u're a rich **** and get cdj1000's) fair enuff, everything is more accurate if you're a cdj (cue times are better, but the difference is negligable) .. so why exactly is being a cdj cheating; the same amount of skill, if not more is required?

just because it's unconventional doesnt mean it should be slated

Posted by DJErnieP on Sep-24-2002 20:56:

its not the same, its not what its about. A DJ controls a crowds emotions through his/her music. Its just not the same if your pressing buttons, yeah your still beatmatching, but its just wrong. With vinyl, you touch the music itself, theres no digital input. with CDs theres no emotion. Plus cds give you a chance to screw people over for their music, its not that hard to go and find a track online and burn it, spin it, and now your a DJ? fuck that. you wanna be a DJ, contribute, go out and buy plastic for 10.00 dollars a record. Thats what its about, fucking button pushers.

Edit: hey but i love you all

Posted by Greedy on Sep-24-2002 21:26:

there is NO skill in spinning cds. . . .well, it does take skill, but its really easy to learn. i spent 15 minutes facking around on one and was bored after that. Although I would highly recommend it to any person thats not quite ready for tables and vinyls.
CDs can help you learn all about cues, phrase mixing, and beat matching with your whole digital music collection which is great.
I like spinning on records because i like to be able to see where I am at in the song. When the cd display says, 4:58 left, that means shit to me. If youre spinning a song that youre unfamiliar with, its useless. I like to see the little dark and light colored bars on the record so i can see exactly what is going to happen next in the song.

bottom line is the cdjs are good for trance music because its not like you can scratch to trance, just mix. If you wanna get into scratching with cds, youll look like an ass.

For me, its a pride thing. All it takes is for one person to criticize me for spinning on cds and ill be embarrassed. If you can get past that, more power to you and good luck.

Posted by DJ-Kuza on Sep-25-2002 03:33:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Kuza

So stealing from an artst to earn a living for yourself is promoting music? You need to re-think you stance on this you fucking theif.

we were getting off topic. Thought I'd remind everyone about this here logic.

Posted by DJ Dowlz on Sep-25-2002 04:21:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ-Kuza

So stealing from an artst to earn a living for yourself is promoting music? You need to re-think you stance on this you fucking theif.

For the record, I have over 400 CD singles, so I think I've made my fair contribution to the commercial music industry. I agree with your view about making a living out of DJing and burning commercial music. If you are a professional DJ, then it is terrible for you to burn music. But how many of us are actually making a living out of DJing? For most of us, it is a part time thing. I, for exampe might do a 21st once a month. Now at the rate pop music comes out, I would have to buy at least 20 new CD singles a month. Now, I normally charge AU$350-400 for a gig. CD singles are $10 each. So, I'm spending $200 a month on CD singles (if I were to buy pop music). I have to spend $50 hiring the speakers. That leaves me with $100 for a 5 hour gig. (plus the setup time, time to hire speakers etc) You get more money working in a cafe. See my point?

I spend my money buying music which I THINK SHOULD BE PROMOTED, ie trance (vinyls). I don't spend money on buying songs which people just request which I think are crap (ie pop). I don't want to promote these songs, I just play them cause people want me to play them. If I was a pro, the story would be a completely different matter. But I'm not, so I feel fully justified in my stance.

Hopefully that clarifies a few things. Just my $0.02

Posted by Greedy on Sep-25-2002 04:44:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Dowlz
I don't spend money on buying songs which people just request which I think are crap (ie pop). I don't want to promote these songs, I just play them cause people want me to play them.

I dont understand what youre saying here. You said that you buy trance songs because youre all about promoting it. Then you said that you dont spend money on songs that people ask you to play that you dont like but you play it anyway. So if you dont buy these songs, you download it and burn it on cd?

Ive downloaded music before but one should never go out in public and play pirated music to the public no matter how many cd singles youve bought and how shitty you get paid for your gigs. Youre just asking for trouble.

Posted by DJ Dowlz on Sep-25-2002 06:37:

Okay, sorry I wasn't clear.

I do two types of DJing, the 1st is parties. At these parties, I play pop, because that's what people want. I generally hate pop music. Thus I don't feel as though I should have to pay money to promote (play) crappy music, especially since if I did, I would hardly be making any money out of it at all. Also, another point is that all the chicks who hear this crappy music will think "that's a great song" and go buy it. Thus the artist still gets money.

On the other hand, I also DJ at gigs where the music is generally trance. I buy all of my trance songs, because I feel as though I owe something to the artists who produce this fantastic music. I don't mind paying money to promote songs that are awesome. Also, when you buy a trance CD/vinyl the quality is (slightly) higher, which is also an important consideration.

Hopefully that clarifies my stance. I only burn pop cause I hate the music. I buy all of my trance cause I love it.

Posted by Greedy on Sep-25-2002 06:59:

quote:
Originally posted by DJ Dowlz
I only burn pop cause I hate the music.

Isn't that illegal? I hope you dont get caught.

Posted by DJ Dowlz on Sep-25-2002 07:10:

quote:
Originally posted by Busy Child

Isn't that illegal? I hope you dont get caught.

I guess you could say it's not illegal to play burnt CDs, it's only illegal if you get caught. And realistically, the chances of that ocurring (in Australia) are next to none. Most of the places I've played at say most of their DJs have at least some burnt music and basically they don't mind them having burnt music as long as the sound quality is fine.

Posted by DJ-Kuza on Sep-25-2002 13:18:

Well I think you should stop rationalising(sp?) it so that you dont' feel guilty. And at the least, stop giving bad advice to people just starting out. If they get busted it's your fault.

Posted by Dj Flesch on Sep-28-2002 00:49:

I don't know quite why I'm replying to these bullshit posts, but the fact that some people are so intolerant made me mad. How can you honestly say that djing on cds isn't "real djing" and has "no emotion". If you think that, then you don't understand what djing is really about.

Beatmatching, whether through releasing vinyl or pressing play still involves the same training of the ear and skills to get the tracks exactly beatmatched. I don't care how fast you got "bored" with a cd-deck, you're also suposedly an experienced dj and so of course you'll get the hang of it pretty quickly--it's to be expected. If you had no experience before "facking around for 15 minutes" then you wouldn't be able to spin worth shit, and don't tell me just because you can press a button that it makes you a dj. Pressing a button doesn't infuse you with the knowledge of beat/phrasematching or even make it much easier; it doesn't inspire you to play the tracks that you do, and it doesn't teach you how to read a crowd, and it doesn't give you the inate knoweldege that djs have on which tracks to play and in which order.

I ask you this. Is not being a trance dj all about spreading trance tracks that you spin to those who haven't heard those tracks? Can the crowd tell if you are spinning cds versus vinyl if they can't see you? Sure you might think that spinning vinyl makes you "cooler looking" and you know what, I agree. I think that there is a much more hands on feeling with vinyl--because you actually DO touch the vinyl, but just because I choose to spin cds, doesn't make me any less of a dj!

Imagine in the future, when everything is digital except you. All the djs will have the original quality sound recording, while your tracks sound like shit because you've played them so much (so either you have to buy the vinyl over and over again, or just once like me and when my cd gets trashed, I just burn another copy from the original record that I bought and recorded into digital format via my turntable). A perfect example of this is track 5 of cd 2 of Paul Oakenfold's Planet Perfecto - Another World. I listened to this track in headphones and thought my ears went to shit because the quality of the track is so damn poor! Not only that, but while you are busy beatmatching, the mixer will do the beatmatching for me so I can focus on real-time effects or brining in a third or even fourth track to make the mix all the more complicated.

Face it, you can't be so close-minded that you can't adapt to the upcoming technology. I work in a pharmaceutical company and most of the older people don't want to learn any more about computers than they absolutely have to, but that doesn't change the fact that in a few years, we won't even be writing our experiments on paper anymore because it will all be online--the notebook, the scales, the instruments and the analytical equipment will all link onto the computer. It is the same damn thing with djing. You have to be able to adapt to stay with the times. Records were invented by Thomas Edison in 1877 and are 125 years old. We are in the begining of the 21st century, 125 years later there is MUCH better technology and I suggest you learn how to use it or you will be a dj of the past.

Posted by Dj Ahter on Sep-28-2002 18:44:

Dj Flesch....

Of course you are a dj, no matter you spin CDs or vinly. You get all the emotion and the respect from the audiance but don't you think the vinly sounds a bit more groovy (kind of powerful)???

Personally I think both of them require different skills where as some of the basic ones are the same. But mixing is a personal choice and you, as a dj, decide what's more important in your mix...beatmatching, effects, phrasing...ect !!! So there's no point in discussing that,I think.....

DJ Kuza you are right too,don't put people off

Posted by Joshva on Sep-30-2002 05:11:

quote:
Originally posted by Busy Child
there is NO skill in spinning cds. . . .well, it does take skill, but its really easy to learn.

^^^^
I disagree with you here. The digital music is more precise on CD's. What I mean by this is that a bass beat is much bigger on vinyl (fater?). On a CD the digital bass beat is smaller and more precise. When beat matching on cd's it is harder than vinyl because your match has to be more precise. As it is very very noticiable if you are even slightly out. With the big fat beats of vinyl you can sometimes be slightly out but not really noticieable.

quote:
Originally posted by Busy Child

I like spinning on records because i like to be able to see where I am at in the song. When the cd display says, 4:58 left, that means shit to me. If youre spinning a song that youre unfamiliar with, its useless.

^^^^^^
Totally agree with you here though. When oh when will they make cheap CDJ's with wave displays of the whole track.

Posted by DJ-Kuza on Sep-30-2002 14:33:

Yeah, I never said anythign about spinning with CD's isn't the same or as good as doing it with records. That's why I tried to bring it back on topic about spinning music you didn't pay for. Hell, f you could buy music in mp3 format, then spin that shit. You've at least, helped put money in the artists' pocket.

So spin what you want, hell spin off mp3 players if you want, jsut dont' try to get away with stealing music, just because you "won't get caught". By that logic, If someone kills your sister and doesn't get caught, you just rationalised that he didn't do anything wrong. lol, nice logic!

Posted by uberclkgtr on Sep-30-2002 20:43:

RE: the amount of music available on the different mediums. I must disagree with what was posted above, that you can get a wider variety of music on CD, either purchased or burned. Not the case. In fact, far from it.

There's a ton of great music out there that never gets ripped by release groups. I mean a *ton*. Close to half the records I have at home aren't ripped, and if they are, they've never been put on the file sharing networks.

By either choosing CDs or vinyl, you're limiting your music. If you choose vinyl, there's a ton of music out there, everything really, but you'll have to pay for it. Vinyl is expensive. And you may have to wait to get those up-front promos. Though that's less of an issue these days. If you choose CDs, your variety will be reduced, but all the popular stuff will get ripped and released, sometimes before you could get your hands on the promo vinyl. Of course you're going to have to live with yourself DJing with pirated music...

There's something aesthetically very pleasing about playing a vinyl record. Something organic about it that CDs can't match. You've chosen wisely I think.

Posted by streetknight on Sep-30-2002 22:53:

i know if i rip music of 1 artist and i like more then just 2 songs i go out and buy it its like being able too test the music before i go out and get it i rather do that then buy a cd normally 15 bucks then find out theres only that 1 song i like

Posted by Dj Ahter on Oct-01-2002 15:52:

I couldn't really get it...
How can you rip the music from somewhere if you don't have the cd or Vinly ???

Posted by SeventhSun on Oct-09-2002 14:22:

Cant believe theres so many BJ's out there!!

(button jockeys) hehehehehe

Posted by Greedy on Oct-09-2002 15:13:

quote:
Originally posted by SeventhSun
Cant believe theres so many BJ's out there!!

(button jockeys) hehehehehe

hehe.

Off the topic though, say you're able to get pre-released music from a source and youre a CDJ. Is this possible? Do they burn un-released tunes on cd? Sorry if i come across ignorant sounding.

Posted by chris_norris on Oct-09-2002 22:02:

Just thought i'd add my opinion. I have cd decks. I've never touched a pair of TT's, so I don't know anything about them, however i do have a friend who uses TT's and he told me he thought it was easier starting out on CD decks than it was on TT's. But I wouldn't know. I found it hard at first on my CD's, for the first 6 months or so, but I reckon I'm mastering it now, and my mixing is ok. I don't think ti requires any less skill or anything like that, and it's not easy IMO.

About the mp3 thing. At the moment, I don't have much money, so I can't afford to buy many cd singles. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying i don't buy any music, I do. But at the moment, the only people I spin to are myself, and occasionally my friends, I've done a couple of house parties. I've never been payed for anything, and don't intend to in the near future. But if I ever was in a situation were I was recieving money for DJing, I'd pay for my music. At the moment I don't see any point, especially as i don't have the money too, so the majority of my collection is on mp3.

For the whole are you a real DJ thing, eventually, I'd like to think that i will progress to vinyl decks. Cd decks were an option, because I didn't think i was ready for vinyl, and I didn't want to be stuck with a limited collection of music while i was starting out.

If your looking to make money, I'd suggest viyl decks. Like someone said, if you can get over one person calling you not a real Dj, you'll be fine, but I have trouble with that, it's quite a knock back. Also about CD promo services, I don't think there very good, i'm constantly looking for new releases on cd and stuff but don't be able to find much, there are some, but the music tends to be varied. If you had ripping equipment, whereby you could rip the vinyl you had bought to cd (althought this'd b even more costly!) then you could have your new releases on cd a.s.a.p

My conclusion is - my experience with CD decks has been fine. But if you're looking to make money relatively quickly go for vinyl.

Posted by Joshva on Oct-09-2002 23:21:

^^^^^^^^^
To Chris Norris. I started off exactly the same as you. But after about a year and a half or bedroom dj'ing and when my DJ'ing started to get more serious I needed more and more music (Trance). Anyway there just wasn't enough good Trance music available on CD. I went into a record store heard alot of vinyl only trance music and just went wow, big big wow. The next day I bought a turntable and loads of vinyl.

It's good to spin both gives one alot of options. I love going to buy vinyl and finding a track I like thats also available on cd which I can buy for a quarter of the price. It's just great. I also love finding a great track on vinyl that won't be released on CD's.

Anyway as long as your enjoying yourself on the medium you have and you have enough music to keep you spinning. Good stuff

Posted by Greedy on Oct-09-2002 23:59:

quote:
Originally posted by chris_norris
Just thought i'd add my opinion. I have cd decks. I've never touched a pair of TT's, so I don't know anything about them, however i do have a friend who uses TT's and he told me he thought it was easier starting out on CD decks than it was on TT's. But I wouldn't know. I found it hard at first on my CD's, for the first 6 months or so, but I reckon I'm mastering it now, and my mixing is ok. I don't think ti requires any less skill or anything like that, and it's not easy IMO.

About the mp3 thing. At the moment, I don't have much money, so I can't afford to buy many cd singles. Don't get me wrong I'm not saying i don't buy any music, I do. But at the moment, the only people I spin to are myself, and occasionally my friends, I've done a couple of house parties. I've never been payed for anything, and don't intend to in the near future. But if I ever was in a situation were I was recieving money for DJing, I'd pay for my music. At the moment I don't see any point, especially as i don't have the money too, so the majority of my collection is on mp3.

For the whole are you a real DJ thing, eventually, I'd like to think that i will progress to vinyl decks. Cd decks were an option, because I didn't think i was ready for vinyl, and I didn't want to be stuck with a limited collection of music while i was starting out.

If your looking to make money, I'd suggest viyl decks. Like someone said, if you can get over one person calling you not a real Dj, you'll be fine, but I have trouble with that, it's quite a knock back. Also about CD promo services, I don't think there very good, i'm constantly looking for new releases on cd and stuff but don't be able to find much, there are some, but the music tends to be varied. If you had ripping equipment, whereby you could rip the vinyl you had bought to cd (althought this'd b even more costly!) then you could have your new releases on cd a.s.a.p

My conclusion is - my experience with CD decks has been fine. But if you're looking to make money relatively quickly go for vinyl.

Finally, an honest post from a CDJ user.

honestly, i started off with mixing (to myself) with loops with acid and atomix, doing cheezy remixes and such. Sitting at your computer with a collection of drum loops, bass lines, acapellas, and a handful of effects such as flange/delay is addictive.
Since Atomix is a computer program, i cant say i learned how to mix with it, but i did learned all about phrases and when to drop a song in and stuff like that. That was a really smart move on my part because it cost me nothing, except buying samples and loops, and it also allowed me to purchase tables with confidence. I just feel really bad for those who went and bought tables without knowing what theyre getting into and ended up selling it on EBAY after a coupla months.
Dropping $$ on tables/mixer/headphones/cartridges/vinyls is seriously NO JOKE.
Id say buying CDJ's before turntables is a wise move and when you are ready to buy tables, youd be decked out with tables AND CDJs which would definately make DJing more fun.
But im against DJing with only CDJs/mp3's and thats my opinion.

Posted by SeventhSun on Oct-10-2002 14:19:

Just buy two technics, you'll learn on the best get used to them since if u ever spin live most likely thats what youll use

besides they dont depreciate alot at all

Posted by Simon00 on Oct-11-2002 00:35:

Im starting out on cdj's and a 300 mixer. i love them but i have that feeling that one day i will be playing vinyl. Just not yet

Posted by Dj Ahter on Oct-12-2002 21:52:

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