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k

quote:

Originally posted by clay laptops comes with inbuild speakers now so no need for home audio.

That's why I love to listen to drum'n'bass on my laptop's built-in speakers: Only drums, no stupid bass

quote:

Originally posted by clay laptops comes with inbuild speakers now so no need for home audio.

Too bad Bose doesn't make laptops!

No, it's just your opinion that I don't trust. When its people's jobs to know everything about the equipment they're selling, and they work on commission, why don't you just answer me why they wouldn't recommend a more expensive receiver, unless it actually wasn't a superior product?

I'm basing this off of actually listening to the two studios which both used Pioneer receivers. One set used B&W, one used ML, and I liked the sound of the MartinLogan better. It has absolutely fuckall to do with the receiver, because they used the same receiver in each studio, because it was the best receiver they sell.

I'm not opposed to people offering insight into the matter, but you haven't. You're just throwing a blanket "hurrdurr asian stuff sucks" argument which has no basis whatsoever. Both studios sounded amazing, I liked the sound of the ML speakers better. It has absolutely nothing to do with the quality of the receiver.

Essentially what you're trying to say is that the reason I liked the ML set better than B&W was because of the receiver, when they used the same one. Everything you've said is completely irrelevant, so why would I take any of it into consideration.

I made this thread for advice from people who actually know what they're talking about. That does not include you.

They were both playing through the same receiver, thus the receiver can be taken out of the equation.

quote:

Originally posted by Euforix Why wouldn't people still buy sound systems for home usage? Or is it too audiophile nowadays?

its just doing activities in a group appears to be in decline. there was a time when the family gathered around the tv or radio together, and friends use to listen to the latest record together, but now everyone has a tv in their room, or has some headphones blasting. its just a commentary on the change of society.

quote:

Originally posted by Spacey Orange its just doing activities in a group appears to be in decline. there was a time when the family gathered around the tv or radio together, and friends use to listen to the latest record together, but now everyone has a tv in their room, or has some headphones blasting. its just a commentary on the change of society.

Home Theater systems are meant for large living rooms, which would be conducive to groups of people watching. It's be stupid to have a home theater system in your bedroom.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Home Theater systems are meant for large living rooms, which would be conducive to groups of people watching. It's be stupid to have a home theater system in your bedroom.

since when has stupidity ever been an impediment to doing anything?

if you have time,

read this book before you make your purchase. Most of it you can skip but it pretty much lays out what makes a good listening room. What kind of speakers, how many , where to put them. ....

the math isn't really hard and it is a relatively easy read.

http://www.divshare.com/download/21352199-53e

I have a genelec 1030 4.1 with the matching sub setup.I use them music dvds so I never bothered with the centre channel. I do have 2 1029s i use for music related stuff i suppose i could borrow if i had to.

But ya, take a bit of time, do the math , the buy your speakers. No point getting something that won't work for your room.

Your system will be lacking in the bass dept. That sub would be inadequate even in a smallish room. At a minimum I suggest running 2 subs. Highs and mids are easy to come by, but good sounding bass is where most systems come up short.

good sounding bass is not a matter of power especially for small rooms. You need to deal with standing waves with bass traps or source position. The problem in every case is too much power. Running 2 subs in phase for more bass won't do a fucking thing for bass management. It will merely accentuate the room modes making things sound even worse.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney good sounding bass is not a matter of power especially for small rooms. You need to deal with standing waves with bass traps or source position. The problem in every case is too much power. Running 2 subs in phase for more bass won't do a fucking thing for bass management. It will merely accentuate the room modes making things sound even worse.

Yes room acoustics is major piece of the puzzle, but I thought that would be too advanced for this thread.

Your incorrect about the 2nd sub accentuating room modes, as it does the exact opposite and smooths peaks and valleys of the first sub. Even more so when you run them in independent positions. There are numerous benefits of running multiple subs, you should check it out.

not if they are in phase as I mentioned. Which was implicit given your mention of power. I also stated that they were in phase acknowledging your argument that one will not present enough power. . I know more than one should know about acoustics. You are wrong regarding that sub not being adequate in terms of power. The benefit of using multiple bass sources to influence axial room modes is not really being discussed or worth being discussed as I doubt he is going to get more subs.

There is long discussion with another in the production forum regarding the concept of strategic placement of multiple subs to mitigate bass issues that bass trapping doesn't seem to fix. First page.

Your subs should always be in phase, whether they're next to each other or on opposite sides of the room. I get what your thinking... but a second sub (if identical to the first sub) will always add 6dB of headroom AND will smooth the frequency response of the room.

Here's a good article from a respected source: Geddes Subs

srussell0018 - you're planning on buying nice front speakers, a nice reciever, but a cheap sub. So naturally your going to be lacking in the bass dept. You should think about pairing those speakers with a comparable sub, something in the $800-1200 range. And consider multiple good subs if you want to impress. Your room is big, so a cheap 10" sub is not going to cut it.

For me is mostly about 2ch stereo music experience with my Rotel and B&W setup -> helps me (to some extend) get a sweet spot between production (headphones/speakers) and casual listener home setup - trust me, this make big difference on the end of my project.

Cheers

I have some Polk 40s that have been in their box for a year because I am too retarded to wire them. In fact, now I need a new keyboard because I just drooled all over mine.

quote:

Originally posted by spanglo Your subs should always be in phase, whether they're next to each other or on opposite sides of the room. I get what your thinking... but a second sub (if identical to the first sub) will always add 6dB of headroom AND will smooth the frequency response of the room.

the only way it will smooth the frequency response is by placing them in a manner that produces phase distortion reducing the perception of room mode resonances. If they are in phase, they are summing, your peaks and nulls will only be accentuated. So no , you are are incorrect. That article also contradicts what you say. You are also incorrect regarding the doubling of power. It depends where you place them. You have to account for the proximity effect and phase. And since much of the bass range in terms of wave length is longer than your room, it is impossible to get this sort of doubling unless you have them inside each other. And head room and frequency smoothing have nothing to do with each other. You are using the term out of context.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney the only way it will smooth the frequency response is by placing them in a manner that produces phase distortion reducing the perception of room mode resonances. If they are in phase, they are summing, your peaks and nulls will only be accentuated. So no , you are are incorrect. That article also contradicts what you say. You are also incorrect regarding the doubling of power. It depends where you place them. You have to account for the proximity effect and phase. And since much of the bass range in terms of wave length is longer than your room, it is impossible to get this sort of doubling unless you have them inside each other. And head room and frequency smoothing have nothing to do with each other. You are using the term out of context.

Not.

"One cool thing is that subs sum coherently (in-phase) below the modal region. So while small subs may not individually have very much output, efficiency goes up tremendously through the use of multiples. Note, however, that multiple subs will not smooth the response down low. The modes are just too sparse. Smoothing only happens in the modal region. Most music has fundamentals in the modal region, but relatively little music has fundamental tones much below 50Hz or so. (Which is not to say that below 50Hz is unimportant, only that it is relatively less important than the 50-200 Hz octave pair.)"

He specifically says it smooths in the modal region, but absolutely no mention of accentuation. When he talks about summing coherently, he's talking about output not frequency response.

notice how he mentions phase and efficiency ? which has nothing to do with favourable response. He is talking about using smaller subs to get a louder signal. Unfortunately any sub that is in phase with another will boost the peaks and accentuate the nulls. It is called addition. If you plan to use multiple subs for bass management rather than loudness, you need to place them strategically and generally out of phase to some level. it would be silly to say in phase as this is physically impossible to do. He states that summing prescribed will not help with bass response.

Regarding your last sentence. Output and frequency are irrevocably linked. Summing a peak has a frequency component.

btw , the articles you provided are based mostly on work by Toole which sort of hammers home the importance of phase and how it isn't a good thing for bass if you are just summing the problems which given the room size is a guarantee.

quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney notice how he mentions phase and efficiency ? which has nothing to do with favourable response.

Really? Then why did say in the same paragraph the that smoothing happens in the modal region? According to you if they were in phase like he mentioned then it would accentuate the modes, not smooth them. But there was no mention of multiple subs degrading frequency response - ever. There's a very good reason for that.

What I originally stated holds true: multiple subs = greater output and better frequency response.

Okay guys, enough with the cock wagging. I don't understand any of what you're saying anyways.

My living room is about 25'-15' give or take.
Ready go.

Look at all the audio engineers in here...some of u should be installing high end systems for...money

quote:

Originally posted by spanglo What I originally stated holds true: multiple subs = greater output and better frequency response.

if output is correlated with better frequency response, why do so many theatres , studios and home theatres spend thousands on bass trapping. Why not just let the bass accrue. The biggest issue in bass management is always and has always been too much bass. Too much energy that doesn't defuse like higher frequencies.

You are wrong. You don't seem to understand the physics behind audio to read the article and not extract meaning that is not stated. Multiple subs can help but not for the reasons you stated.

you also don't seem to understand room modes I don't really want to argue with you. You cannot smooth audio energy by addition. It doesn't get any simpler than that . Smoothing requires a peak to "smooth", you don't solve an excess of energy by adding more.

You also cannot have subs in phase. A simple look at the first 3-4 room modes will show you why. There will be phase distortion no matter where you place it.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 Okay guys, enough with the cock wagging. I don't understand any of what you're saying anyways. My living room is about 25'-15' give or take. Ready go.

i think you are paying a premium for the tower look. rule of thumb, you can get better results cheaper using 2 bookshelf styled speakers with proper decoupling. There are exceptions when it comes to baffling but since you are using a sub, not really an issue.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...ck_5_8030A.html

or the smaller model

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/produ...Active_5_1.html

easier to resell as well.

What are your thoughts on sound bars? I'm probably going to be buying a house in the next year or two so it may be easier to get one of those until that time.

I heard some ones at the studio that were from both MartinLogan and B&W in the $1,500-$2,000 range that sounded pretty damn good.

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