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-- Psyshell - 4am in Healesville [Forest Darkpsy for Forest Elves]
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| Originally posted by Bierheld I'm not a technohead, in fact I think much of today's techno output is equally bland and unsatisfying. I didn't say all of the tracks were bad and I also didn't say anything about the actual existence of the term darkpsy. I'm sure it exists in some peoples heads, I just said it was nonsense and I don't care much for it. |
then please bugger off. Maybe I'll make a set of music you like next time, if not then that's your problem not mine. Your post achieves nothing.| quote: |
| Originally posted by Bierheld I'd just like to see you reflect on your music choice as we all have to do, that way you can grow so that you'll be able to submit something really worth listening to in the future. I listen to these mixes because I want to hear good music, especially in areas and genres I don't usually look for myself. If you don't want to then that's that, but you can't blame me for trying. |
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| Originally posted by Psyshell I've never seen you before so just assumed you were a techno snob, fair enough if I was wrong. |
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| Originally posted by Psyshell No, but I can blame you for making dumb posts and hiding your underlying goals. |
So, let's list facts:
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| Originally posted by ziptnf Your attitude fucking sucks. |
I actually love this mix. I think it's fucking awesome. Good job man
Quote with comments
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| Originally posted by ziptnf So, let's list facts:
How many times are you up to? Don't confuse your comments with bierhelds. Bierhelds was saying stupid shit about darkpsy not existing, to which my response is "well honestly this mix isn't aimed at people who don't like darkpsy, so there's no point in you commenting" [QUOTE]Originally posted by ziptnf This discussion is over for me. Psyshell, your mix showed that your supposedly high standards in psytrance were actually extremely weak selections of aimless forest psy tracks. |
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| Originally posted by Adam420 I actually love this mix. I think it's fucking awesome. Good job man |
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| Originally posted by Sushipunk Anyone on this forum should be welcoming feedback and musical discussion on the mixes they post. That's the whole god damn point. |
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| Originally posted by Psyshell |
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| Originally posted by Psyshell When the thread devolves into everyone winging about how shit darkpsy is and ziptnf winging about my mix for random reasons |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf Okay, I'm really not certain how you're going to take my review, Psyshell. There will be no personal attacks here, only my constructive thoughts, which is what Sushi asked of me. If you start thinking that there are any personal attacks here, then I really don't know what to say, as I've never personally attacked you. All I can do is give you my opinion, having listened to thousands of psytrance mixes over the last 4 years, I can sort out what is killer, what's good, what's crap, and what's average. If I had to rate this mix, I'd say it's average. The content is your run-of-the-mill forest psy, of which I found no tracks were truly killer. There are several things you have to consider when making a mix. 1) What's the point of the mix? What are you trying to accomplish? 50 minutes isn't nearly long enough for a hearty psychedelic trip, and not short enough for a showcase of mixing skills (e.g. cramming 20 tracks into 30 minutes). I feel you should have extended this mix by at least another 20-30 minutes. 2) What is the arrangement of the tracks that will accomplish what you set out on point 1? Since your goal was to make a forest psy mix, you should focus on building the tension throughout the mix. There were several points, especially by the end, where I felt you didn't follow through on this. The last track wasn't particularly suited to be played right after Track 8, because it has a much lower energy level. 3) How are you going to mix the tracks together? I went through and listened from start to finish. The first transition was actually really good. I thought it was perfect. But then your mixing fell apart in the following locations (I'm not going to list out the tracks, that would take too long... although I did like Track 3 and the Drury Nevil Track): 11:50 - you're going from a chilled out goa-esque melody and then quickly cutting out of that track into the new one. There is no fade out at all. No transfer of energy. You should play the next track at the immediate moment when the energy starts declining so the next track can start picking up. 16:10 - another bad transition. The track is cut too quickly again. You need to be careful with phrasing, especially when you're playing forest/darkpsy because there are triple-kicks that can throw off the beat. Phrasing is extremely important in all mixing. 20:42 - I think this is a transition? The energy dies. 26:37 - The next track pops in kinda suddenly. That's the problem here, you should try your best to make the transitions unnoticeable (which is particularly hard with psytrance because of the big basslines), but even fading in is better than not. 31:40 - This was interesting. You transitioned during the breakdown, and it worked better than you were probably intending. It still wasn't in time with the beat, but it was better than the others. 35:40 - Another transition where you didn't consider the levels of the track and fading in. Sometimes full-volume transitions are necessary, but not here. Again, if you find offense with anything I said, you're trying too hard to pick a fight. I've never had any problem with you, I don't treat you any different than I treat the other cocksuckers on this forum, especially that ugly mother****** Sushipunk. If I was a bird, I'd poop on him. For your next mix, try to keep the three points that I listed up there. Select tracks of a certain theme that you want to put in a full-length mix, arrange them in a way that keeps the listener interested where the tracks are releasing tension and energy at exactly the right times, and keep focused on smoother transitions with the proper phrasing so that you don't let the tracks end too early, which kills the energy. If you want to listen to a mix of mine that has a hypnotic "foresty" vibe, check out Radioactive Sound and if you want, check my latest one, which is my signature. Take it easy, no need to get so riled up about everything. I was actually shocked to learn you had a problem with me, I never thought I had offended anyone. |
Yes, and that was a very good post of his. I don't see where we differ in views on that? That was a nice and detailed analysis which I have repeatedly said I enjoyed reading/having. It's most certainly not the only thing he's posted though.Also, the new thread was because I was hoping that if I said the right things it wouldn't devolve into a personality bashing fest... which it did a little anyway, but nowhere near as badly. It was basically because it'd be nice if I had a nice dj mix thread that had people saying they did or didn't like it or similar legit criticism (like all of ziptnf's posts really) and not just a bunch of trolls winging about how darkpsy doesn't exist. Leaving the old thread would've meant it'd be that way for at least the first 3 pages, if not more. Also, bear in mind, this is DJ promotion, not the COR. If the thread creator doesn't like where a thread's going they'll simply stop posting their mixes on this forum. There's one TA user who decided to comment on my set on soundcloud, no doubt in large part because this place is full of crappy drama like bierheld and co were instigating (not ziptnf though really).
If you don't like the genre just don't post in the thread. Or leave it at "it's cool that you're posting dj mixes now, but this style isn't for me" rather than several paragraphs explaining why darkpsy is crap. Do you think I care? No? If I wanted to have a dumb and angry musical debate I'd go tell some guy with a biker beard that metal is crap and watch his reaction. Now fine, this thread's gone that way too, however please don't derail the thread for my next set with useless arrogant comments about what styles I should or shouldn't be playing and or whether they exist or not(forest darkpsy existing or not is understandable, darkpsy existing or not, definitely not).
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| Originally posted by Sushipunk You were the one that made it a genre issue (All you guys just don't understand... I hang out with dark psy DJs, etc.) |
Why do you keep confusing my music criticism with genre criticism? Is that some sort of self-defence mechanism? Again, I never said I didn't like the music you call 'darkpsy'. I just don't like the overly complex terminology that comes with psytrance music, to me the differences between all those supposed genres are massively inflated by blinded enthusiasts, which is why I mockingly called them 'micro-niches'.
If you look past all that you'll find that all I actually said was I didn't like some of the tracks in your mix; This is not the same as saying I don't like the genre. It's like you cannot fathom that someone might find these tracks to be sub-par, why would I even listen to this mix if apparently it doesn't fit my tastes at all?
Honestly, I can't remember exactly what I put in that first post I made in the old thread. But I'm pretty sure that although it was opinionated, none of it was offensive. It's all because of your faulty interpretation that this escalated into a needlessly personal and fruitless discussion.
You don't know me, you don't know anything about my musical background, my perspective; Were I'm coming from.
This is why you must avoid making assumptions about me, because all you end up doing is subconsciously projecting your own views upon me, thereby misinterpreting my intent.
What you need to understand first of all is that my proficiency with the English language is pretty basic, and I am therefore limited in how I can express myself. This is worsened by the fact we're working in text only, which means we cannot add tone or other verbal implications which in turn makes it harder to add clear intent to a message.
This can be circumvented with literary prowess, but a lot of people are either incapable of this or simply can't be bothered. You need to keep this in mind before you start victimizing yourself when a post comes of as unnecessarily harsh. Just try and forget about who posted it and respond to the actual content, you can save yourself from a lot of trouble this way.
From what I can tell you're not a great communicator yourself, as you make it look like you want people to listen to your mix but you don't actually want to know what they think about it.
Yes, I could have just refrained from commenting at all, or say "I don't like it" and be done with it. this would be the easy way out, where no one gets hurt but no one wins either. I chose to take a different approach however, mainly because I thought your presentation showed a certain insecurity; You had already mixed this a couple of times and it didn't sound like you were all that happy about it. So I urged you to reflect upon it a bit more.
My angle was focussed towards the musical content rather then technical details, because I found that to be more important in this case. I asked you how you felt about it, how you think it compared to other sets you may or should have taken as an example. It is my way of trying to help you find a way towards growth and improvement, based on my own experiences. I felt you were obsessing too much over technicalities were it would be better to rethink the very basics. I'd still like it if you humoured me and actually responded to those questions. It is very easy to lose track of what your trying to accomplish if you don't allow for an outsider's perspective. You close yourself off too much, constantly re-rationalizing your lacking accomplishments in a way that makes sense to you but does not affect other people's impressions. I think we are all guilty of this in our own ways, so I wouldn't hold it against you. We could help each other a lot this way and all it requires is for us to take a step back and transcend our frail egos in the interest of open and fruitful discussion.
Speaking of which, I also think you have a pretty close-minded and immature view on the matter.
I've seen this before when we had a small argument in a psytrance topic in MD. In fact you seem to think arguing about such topics is 'retarded', as I believe you called it.
Yes, when it involves personal preferences it becomes much harder, impossible even, to come to an agreement in most cases. This however does not mean it's pointless, that's where your missing the point!
(...Get it?)
..
-Because when you're making an argument you're forcing yourself to reflect upon your own viewpoints, improving them in the process.
There is no such thing as a stupid discussion, to imply so anyway is insulting to the person inquiring you.
That's a fairly reasonable post. However I do indeed not feel like humouring you and explaining why I like darkpsy and you don't. My assumption based on what you posted is that you didn't like the majority of the tracks, in which case as I mentioned listening would be a bit pointless.
Also genre arguments in MD tend to get a bit heated, I'm not sure what your point was when it came to the exact type of vocabulary I was using at that time. You are correct in that I don't know anything about you really, but my first impression was you winging about the tracks in the mix. So concidering this forum is about dj mixing and not music production; I found those sortof comments to not be terribly useful since some people simply are not going to like the mix because of the music contained within.
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| Originally posted by Psyshell I knew you'd held a grudge against me ever since that full on mix and hence why along with certain personal atacks it was the reason I originally put "no ziptnf" in the OP of the other thread. I didn't want that sortof drama. If you don't want me commenting on your mixes then fine. There's no point being like "well if you say mine suck then yours suck too", that's just pointless. I'd instead argue that we have quite different taste. You choose extremely weak breakbeat full on tracks that I find boring and annoying and you feel the same way about my taste in darkpsy. Different tastes. Who cares! |
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| My other point was, maybe we just have different taste in music? If you listen to all 9 tracks singley and don't enjoy a single one, don't even bother posting feedback more detailed than "well, I don't like it". It's just pointless. |
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| Also, full on is different to mix to darkpsy due to what I'm going for. I can't imagine doing a mix transition in full on where cutting mids would be preferable to cutting highs ever. With darkpsy (depending on the kind of darkpsy as well, e.g. horror dark, forest dark, psycore, russian style, israeli style) in certain circumstances like the tracks included in the mix I do believe it is preferable. That was my point and main quibble with ziptnf in terms of mechanical things djing wise. I simply thing that darkpsy is mixed slightly differently to full on. |
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| Ultimately proceeding from there and saying "well you've never really done a darkpsy mix of this particular style" is IMO a valid comment. "I've heard magdansky's" is not really a proper reply. That's not first hand experience. If zipntf wants to do a darkpsy mix of a similar style to this and does it way better in terms of track selection and transitions. I'd love that, it'd give me something to listen to and it'd also show me a lot in terms of how that style is done. |
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| You misunderstand the point of what I was saying. When the thread devolves into everyone winging about how shit darkpsy is and ziptnf winging about my mix for random reasons because he's been bitter since my attempt at full on, then sorry to say but that's not a very productive thread. Perhaps instead I should be write "If you can't name 2 darkpsy artists you enjoy" then make some vaguely sensible post and or just don't just winge about darkpsy + "maybe next time you'll make a mix of a genre I'll enjoy" constantly. Seems so obvious that it should've even need to be stated to me. Regardless, I can just ignore stupid shit like whatever it was bierheld posted in the other thread and just not respond, which is what I probably will do in the future if I actually show some semblence of self control. |
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| Also, saying that someone who hardly ever mixes darkpsy doesn't understand how to mix it is a legit comment. Especially since what I essentially said is this: It's darkpsy, it doesn't need have as steady a flow as full on. |
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| Originally posted by Darkarbiter Suprisingly our taste in darkpsy is a lot closer than in full on. An actually good darkpsy mix, I think this is one of the two I've downloaded (along with cybernetika's warpcore 3) out of like 7. |
Also, do yourself a favor and listen to this dude's mix. He does everything I said should be done in a good forest/darkpsy/whateverthefuckpsy set. I literally did one quick search for "forest" on psynews and found it.
This mix is practically flawless. Seriously, take notes. He crushes it.
I'd also like to make an analogy to you, Psyshell. Have you ever seen those TV shows like Ramsay's Kitchen Nightmares or Restaurant Impossible where guys like Gordon Ramsay and Robert Irvine come to failing restaurants to tell their owners why they're losing money? It always comes down to them telling the owners how their food is shit, they treat their customers like shit, and their customers don't come back because they don't want to waste their time with bullshit.
I'm not trying to say I'm the fucking Gordon Ramsay of psytrance, but Stu brought me into this thread originally to give you feedback, so I told you that the content wasn't anything special and your mixing/arrangement was not good, then you treat me and Bierheld like shit for saying that we didn't care for the music. That's like a restaurant serving frozen food to their customer and then berating them when they say they don't like it.
So here I am to tell you that your food was shit and your service sucks, so that's why you're failing.
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| Originally posted by ziptnf I'm not trying to say I'm the fucking Gordon Ramsay of psytrance... |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf Firstly, I only commented on your full-on mix when you came into one of mine guns blazing and complaining that it wasn't very good and "not to your taste". |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf I told you I liked tracks 3 and 8, but your fatal flaw in this mix was your arrangement, most of your selections, and mixing. |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf I can guarantee you that beyond the artists themselves, nobody is playing psytrance that has that much energy. |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf Did you seriously just say that I don't understand how to mix darkpsy? What the fuck is wrong with you? You've LISTENED to Yin's Reign! Even my other darkpsy mix (Yin's Revenge) had two trainwrecks in which I discussed briefly how difficult it can be to mix darkpsy and tracks with triple-kicks in an introduction phrase. |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf The fact that my mixes are downloaded more by a factor of 10 sorta trumps your idea that I'm mixing "extremely weak, boring annoying" music. |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf I almost feel like making an off-release mix called "Elves Are Faggots" that is forest/darkpsy just to prove that you can make a better mix by focusing on a direction, arranging and mixing properly, and only choosing awesome tracks can beat a half-assed attempt any time. |
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| Originally posted by ziptnf that's why you're failing. |
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| Originally posted by EddieZilker But you could be! |
Fuck you, dude, I'm only a dick to you because you're a dick to me. This is not new, I am very nice to a majority of the members here. Jack and I have had our spats, but he's had those with almost everybody, so it doesn't count. You completely invented this "drama" that we supposedly had.
You're being a douchebag. So I'm being one back.
Fine, well even if it's my fault, can we agree to be more positive to each other in the future? I'll try to keep all criticism of your mixes positive or at least constructive. E.g. commenting on the ones I've enjoyed after I've listened to them all the way through rather than saying much else for the ones that had tracks I didn't like. I don't really mind how you post on my mixes however, it's perfectly possible that we have separate etiquette or whatever. That said... if someone doesn't like over 50% of the tracks when they look them up on youtube... in general I'd say that that's more to do with having different taste... and that any commentary past "choose better tracks" is pointless. It's difficult to understand how a set is meant to feel if you're not enjoying it at all (especially if it's because of poor quality tracks).
One thing I don't understand is why you interprete me having a different taste in psy to you as me having excessively high standards that I fail to live up to. Just because I don't like psybreaks much and you don't like the lithuanian label a lot of the tracks in this are sourced from doesn't mean that I somehow have stupidly high standards. Check out the artists/albums these tracks were sourced from and make a mix of a similar style and I'm quite likely to like it for obvious reasons (so long as the set is built around those tracks and they aren't just randomly thrown in).
no one cares about your self absorbed nonsensical essays.
Good, you can proceed on not caring by not bumping my thread. I'd love it if people only stuck to the music and didn't start taking things personally. If however you instead want to bump my thread so my mix gets more downloads... then go ahead.
This isn't the COR.
Be more positive? Eat my fucking dick, I was positive before you took a shit all over my opinion. So no, I'll treat you however I want. If you make another mix, don't put some pussy-ass passive aggressive bullshit like "NO ZIPTNF PLZ". I won't attack you unless I'm provoked. I'll give you my constructive opinion, and that's all.
Keep my name outta yo mouf and we can keep it the same, nigga. It ain't that I'm too big to listen to the rumors, its just that I'm too damn big to pay attention to em, that's the difference.
/dre
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| Originally posted by ziptnf If you make another mix, don't put some pussy-ass passive aggressive bullshit like "NO ZIPTNF PLZ". |
You have this remarkable ability to realise halfway through writing a sentence that what you've written is almost certainly wrong or irrelevant, and yet you always end the sentence by committing to your nonsense nonetheless. Reading your torturous posts is like seeing the mental process of a vaguely self-aware idiot laid bare.
If you're going to bother posting, mind telling me what you thought of my mix then? I know that's not exactly what you said, but my posts certainly could do with more planning. That said when it's in reply to some really stupid crap as seen in this thread and the last one I tend to not care too much about quality. Can everyone in this thread please remember, this is a content thread, it's not something random in the Cor. Insulting me here when it's not about music is just pointless, all it does is bump my thread and give me more exposure.
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| Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Reading your torturous posts is like seeing the mental process of a vaguely self-aware idiot laid bare. |
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