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-- DMG EQuilibrium
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quote:

Originally posted by Looney4Clooney If you can't understand how similar hardware and software are, you don't really see the big picture. I woukd go further than that and say software opens up a million more avenues to create from scratch than hardware. And raphies decision seems to imply software involves your example of dj Ryan while hardware doesn't. It is a personal choice. Hardware has presets. The jp 8000 was trance's NI massive.

I'm not talking about the medium, I'm talking about the user.

Software is awesome, but it's user base is largely unskilled. To make a choice to use 'restrictive' hardware simply from a personal preference point of view indicates that the person involved has made an artistic choice.

The same can be said of a person that uses software only, or a combination. For the most part however I don't see that as being true at all.

I personally believe it's easier to be lazy using software as well. It's not like I'd ever give it up because it provides too many useful options in terms of sound design and flexibility, but having used both a lot I know that my preference is with the immediacy of hardware.

But again that's not the point. It's not about presets at all, it's about the process of creativity.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie let's not go there, your initial point was?

Well.. Not that it really has any bearing on the discussion.
But Mastering isn't a creative task. If making the song is drawing the picture with charcoal, then mastering is spraying on the coating that doesn't make it smudge.

Without the mastering, the song will still be a song, but without the song, the mastering has no reason to exist. Thusly we can gather that the creative part of the work is in the writing, and the mastering is nothing but the gloss on an apple. It makes the apple last a little longer and shine a little brighter. But it's all fake

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord The difference being described here is that person A sits down in front of a collection of musical instruments and (within the realms of their ability) creates something entirely from scratch with as little preconceived notion as possible. Person B scrolls through Beatport to see what's current, then through Beatports sound pack selection, matches the two up and throws a few loops in Live and releases it as a single. If you're really lucky they might click a few notes in the piano roll and call it 'a melody'. You could pick a million holes in each of these examples, but if you can't see the fundamental difference then you've probably not done both.

What about Person C who's all ITB on a laptop, but never uses the same sample twice?
Or person D who's also on a computer, but synthesizes all his sounds with a program he's written himself?

(Edit:Both of these guys pretty much falls in under person A. When I first read "collection of musical instruments" i was thinking all hardware like Raphie)

All your (Raphie's) arguments fall apart when you use broad sweeping generalisations like that. There aren't two types of producers, and even proposing the idea that every producer on a computer uses loops and presets is so preposterous that all your statements seem as poorly thought out as that one. The fact that you're making music in a specific way doesn't make your music better by that fact alone. Neither is it impressive. It's quirky if anything.

Re: DMG EQuilibrium

WTF was this thread about again? Ohhhhh yeah, that's right......

quote:

Originally posted by kadomony Daaaamn this looks nice. Anybody running this at the moment?

Yeah, it does look nice.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord The difference being described here is that person A sits down in front of a collection of musical instruments and (within the realms of their ability) creates something entirely from scratch with as little preconceived notion as possible. Person B scrolls through Beatport to see what's current, then through Beatports sound pack selection, matches the two up and throws a few loops in Live and releases it as a single. If you're really lucky they might click a few notes in the piano roll and call it 'a melody'. You could pick a million holes in each of these examples, but if you can't see the fundamental difference then you've probably not done both.

that's a fair summary!

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario Well.. Not that it really has any bearing on the discussion. But Mastering isn't a creative task. If making the song is drawing the picture with charcoal, then mastering is spraying on the coating that doesn't make it smudge. Without the mastering, the song will still be a song, but without the song, the mastering has no reason to exist. Thusly we can gather that the creative part of the work is in the writing, and the mastering is nothing but the gloss on an apple. It makes the apple last a little longer and shine a little brighter. But it's all fake

we don't dissagree? Again, what's wrong with people hiring someone to make their apple shine the brightest? And how does that relate to your initial statement about taking credits in a simmilar way as using a few loops and call yourself a producer?

Read 2nd post. I pretty much explained it all there.
Your "take a few loops and call yourself a producer"-argument is innately flawed and it has been explained to you why, so I'm not gonna waste any more time on that now.

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario Read 2nd post. I pretty much explained it all there. Your "take a few loops and call yourself a producer"-argument is innately flawed and it has been explained to you why, so I'm not gonna waste any more time on that now.

i'm sorry your comparison makes no sense to me (or anyone else)

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie composing has "evolved" to content selection and mangling posing with other peoples talent.

I keep thinking about where this 'content selection' style of producing is going. Maybe it's an opportunity rather than a negative in that if more and more people start using those producer packs and loops, they will start to sound very similar.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie i'm sorry your comparison makes no sense to me (or anyone else)

2nd post. As in the one below the one you're referring to.
And don't speak on behalf of anyone else when you're clearly in the minority. Fucking dumbass.

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario 2nd post. As in the one below the one you're referring to. And don't speak on behalf of anyone else when you're clearly in the minority. Fucking dumbass.

let's keep it nice, or do you want me to prove my point, with your little lame "i can push an Ableton button too video" ?!? I understand you feel discriminated as a loop pusher, so you should. Now, shall we play nice? Or do you want to go next level, your call.......

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario 2nd post. As in the one below the one you're referring to. And don't speak on behalf of anyone else when you're clearly in the minority. Fucking dumbass.

Raphie has one point of view you have another, but why the anger? This is a discussion platform, we have to confront other views without getting angry.

We should respect honest opinions even if they might undermine our own sense of self.

In the world of film, some directors are using proper wide film and try making do with less CGI, in a sense this has parallels with what Raphie and others talk of. It's not something to critiscise, it's just a different approach and if people feel that approach is more 'real', more genuine, a better reflection of thier artistic integrity, well thats just fine by me.

In fact the film analogy does chime with me because I get sick of cgi effects and often find real filmed action is far more satisfying than a load of dumb assed code inside a machine. Anyway thats another issue.

Thank you!

quote:

Originally posted by Richard Butler Raphie has one point of view you have another, but why the anger? This is a discussion platform, we have to confront other views without getting angry. We should respect honest opinions even if they might undermine our own sense of self. In the world of film, some directors are using proper wide film and try making do with less CGI, in a sense this has parallels with what Raphie and others talk of. It's not something to critiscise, it's just a different approach and if people feel that approach is more 'real', more genuine, a better reflection of thier artistic integrity, well thats just fine by me. In fact the film analogy does chime with me because I get sick of cgi effects and often find real filmed action is far more satisfying than a load of dumb assed code inside a machine. Anyway thats another issue.

That analogy does not work as it from the get go sets the one above the other.
And where is this supposed anger you're referring to?
Is it because I used a swear word? Stop being fucking kids ffs.

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario That analogy does not work as it from the get go sets the one above the other. And where is this supposed anger you're referring to? Is it because I used a swear word? Stop being fucking kids ffs.

Now, did i ever mention hierarchy? One is not BETTER than the other, one just resonates differently with me, enjoyment as listener, or fulfilment as artist,which might be the exact opposite for you. And that's fine

There is no hierarchy of skills or integrity. That's different for everyone.
Regarding the anger, you act like a testosteron tween.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie let's keep it nice, or do you want me to prove my point, with your little lame "i can push an Ableton button too video" ?!? I understand you feel discriminated as a loop pusher, so you should. Now, shall we play nice? Or do you want to go next level, your call.......

Lol, you gotta be fucking retarded. And the fact that you've gone for the pathetic ad hominems thinking that somehow proves your point speaks volumes about your intelligence level.
Go play with your dusty old synths and samplers, little boy. You do not possess the intellect to argue on the internet.

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario Lol, you gotta be fucking retarded. And the fact that you've gone for the pathetic ad hominems thinking that somehow proves your point speaks volumes about your intelligence level. Go play with your dusty old synths and samplers, little boy. You do not possess the intellect to argue on the internet.

now that's a weak cop out
Let me play, i'll let you replay, ok?

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie now that's a weak cop out Let me play, i'll let you replay, ok?

What exactly are you trying to say here?
First part of the sentence is okay, but last part is unintelligible.
And when you resort to poorly thought out ad hominem attacks, you're not gonna get a well-written antiphon in return. You get what you give. C'mon dude, they taught you that shit in kindergarten.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie Now, did i ever mention hierarchy? One is not BETTER than the other, one just resonates differently with me, enjoyment as listener, or fulfilment as artist,which might be the exact opposite for you. And that's fine

That would be fine, if it was correct. But that whole Creation/Recycling bullshit you wrote shows that you have a clear disdain for anyone who doesn't sculpt each and every sound with analog filters and warmth calibrators, or whatever bullshit technology you've bought into at the time. This attitude in fact permeates your entire rhetoric. And you'll never win an argument when you pretend to be sitting on a cloud above everyone else. Even if you try to deny it later on.

The fact is that apart from a very, veery few tracks, most tracks that are released are more than just a couple of loops thrown together. And your little hate-speech toward loops pretty much alienates you from not only the origin of genre, but also the reason it's still pumping out fresh material 30 years later. If you know where to look, that is. And I doubt you do, given that resplendent analysis of the typical producer you provided a little earlier in the thread.

In order to start a debate, one always aggrevates, exagerates and challenges a bit.
Between those paragraphs i've been crystal clear what i find appealing and hence the way choose to make music.
If you still think that this is about :
- analogue v/s digital
- "real" synths v/s VSTs
- Ableton

Then you still don't get it. It's about creating rather than recycling.
Your content v/s pushing a button and playing that same riser from the library
You programming hihats v/s using those dreaded toolroom/beatport looppacks / machine templates again

It's not as black and white, you can create original beats with one shot samples, Tehlord explained the thin line perfectly.
If you feel you are on the right side then more power to you no need to feel offended
If you keep on lining up prefab loops, push an autosynced button every once and a while nodding the "pretty fly for a white guy" head you are still a stupid monkey.

And i just don't like monkeys & microdj posers


I mean, I like you, but you're having a horrid attitude to noobs, you're foul mouthed and just get gross if you don't get your way. And then above is all to show for. AND you seem to struggle to grasp the bigger picture. But... On better days I do like you...

quote:

Originally posted by itsamemario What exactly are you trying to say here? First part of the sentence is okay, but last part is unintelligible. And when you resort to poorly thought out ad hominem attacks, you're not gonna get a well-written antiphon in return. You get what you give. C'mon dude, they taught you that shit in kindergarten. That would be fine, if it was correct. But that whole Creation/Recycling bullshit you wrote shows that you have a clear disdain for anyone who doesn't sculpt each and every sound with analog filters and warmth calibrators, or whatever bullshit technology you've bought into at the time. This attitude in fact permeates your entire rhetoric. And you'll never win an argument when you pretend to be sitting on a cloud above everyone else. Even if you try to deny it later on. The fact is that apart from a very, veery few tracks, most tracks that are released are more than just a couple of loops thrown together. And your little hate-speech toward loops pretty much alienates you from not only the origin of genre, but also the reason it's still pumping out fresh material 30 years later. If you know where to look, that is. And I doubt you do, given that resplendent analysis of the typical producer you provided a little earlier in the thread.

quote:

Originally posted by Raphie And i just don't like monkeys

Hey

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord Hey

ok li leave the monkey out, the moneky can't help it

At least he's using hardware.

quote:

Originally posted by tehlord At least he's using hardware.

that's razorsharp

Sorry to chirp in here on topic on the off topic.

But after hearing the hardware chaps singing the praise and superiority of it, would they be able to differentiate between the 2 in a blind test?

quote:

Originally posted by 2wice Sorry to chirp in here on topic on the off topic. But after hearing the hardware chaps singing the praise and superiority of it, would they be able to differentiate between the 2 in a blind test?

not sure, depends what against what: i.e. VA synths like Virus Ti against massive probably not, MOOG Minitaur against any VSTi, playing bass for sure.

As mentioned before there are pockets of excellence in both VSTi & hardware

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