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Originally posted by Alex You've gone from saying Catholics don't take mass seriously... Then you point out that there are extremist Catholics as well. Who's side are you on senator?

i made a geographic cultural distinction which would make my generalization for the most part pretty accurate. Had I said all catholics in the world, that would of been retarded.

I don't really see how this is controversial. Catholicism in NA is known for just being a pretty show were people go and nobody really takes it too seriously.

No it's not. Are you Catholic/have you ever even been to a Catholic mass?

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Originally posted by srussell0018 My grandparents attend mass every day. They still love their gay son. I wouldn't question for a second how devout they are to their religion.

Nor would I. I would wonder why they have property tho. I mean the bible is pretty fucking clear on that. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were ok with gay marriage. And the vatican is pretty fucking clear on that. Define devout, and then show me a devout catholic and lets count all the things they don't follow because they are retarded and that is fine because most people in the north are rational and will ignore the bullshit which , lets be honest is a pretty large chunk of what it is to be a devout practicing catholic.

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Originally posted by srussell0018 No it's not. Are you Catholic/have you ever even been to a Catholic mass?

yup. Truly amazing how many if not most of them drove luxury cars and all seemed to use condoms or just pray not to have children. IN one ear, out the other. And that is a good thing because the vatican has some bat shit crazy rules.

Have to agree with cloontang, catholics just preach their dogmas and dont preach the word of god/jesus.when you look at basilicas, i dont think jesus had anything like that in mind, he would most likely be on skid row or in the slums.

I know what you're trying to say about property, but there's nothing at all in church doctrine that prevents the owning of private property, only that it's not normal.

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Originally posted by Syntonic Have to agree with cloontang, catholics just preach their dogmas and dont preach the word of god/jesus.when you look at basilicas, i dont think jesus had anything like that in mind, he would most likely be on skid row or in the slums.

i wouldn't even go that far. Most now just go because it is something to do. I'm sure they believe in god or some form but they really really take it with a grain of salt. My parents still go. Just like alot of old people, it is tradition. It doesn't mean they aren't religious. I just think that what ever common sense they have regarding modern issues, they did not come to those conclusions with the help of the vatican. Pretty sure common sense was the catalyst.

Russel the point i think i'm trying to make is that the somewhat conflict of moral beliefs at least in terms of what the church regards as moral and how people actually live is a sign that people are mostly rational, they don't really take it that seriously and probably derive most of their core values from common sense. At least in places that are educated and not really poor.

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Originally posted by Looney4Clooney Nor would I. I would wonder why they have property tho. I mean the bible is pretty fucking clear on that. I also wouldn't be surprised if they were ok with gay marriage. And the vatican is pretty fucking clear on that. Define devout, and then show me a devout catholic and lets count all the things they don't follow because they are retarded and that is fine because most people in the north are rational and will ignore the bullshit which , lets be honest is a pretty large chunk of what it is to be a devout practicing catholic.

I'd define a devout Catholic as one who can honestly recite the Nicene Creed, follows the 10 commandments, and generally follows church doctrine. I don't believe "devout" means that they cannot question any doctrine or not practice any specific part of the religion. I don't think being a Catholic necessitates that you follow 100% of church laws.

I'll present you with my grandparents. They pray before dinner every night, even when it's just the two of them. They pray before they go to bed every night. They attend mass every day. My grandfather is a eucharistic minister. They accept communion every day.

They don't follow the parts of the Bible which are outdated and not relevant in modern time. That's about it. Coming to the conclusion that certain parts of the Bible just obviously don't apply anymore doesn't make them not devout or bad Catholics.

You sound like cafeteria catholic...HERETIC!!!

see when you say follow the ten commandments, well , try that for a month. And then tell me what federal prison you are being held at.

show me a devout catholic, and i will show you someone in jail, someone on skid row, or someone that is a hypocrite. You can't be devout when being devout at least how you define requires you to do things nobody in their right mind would do.

And this is a good thing. The last thing the world needs is for people to take this shit seriously.

1. Thou shalt have no other gods before me.
2. Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments.
3. Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain; for the Lord will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain.
4. Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: But the seventh day is the sabbath of the Lord thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the Lord blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
5. Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the Lord thy God giveth thee.
6. Thou shalt not kill.
7. Thou shalt not commit adultery.
8. Thou shalt not steal.
9. Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour.
10. Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour�s house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour�s wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour�s.

How would following those wind you up in jail. I don't understand that correlation.

Dont forget DJ worship.

Seriously though, I dont think those scribes could forsee the societies of the future. Wonder what there views would be like then?

Well it's the same as people thinking "the right to bear arms" in the US Constitution means they have the right to carry automatic gas powered assault rifles. It may have been appropriate when it was written, but it's not now.

These things that were written hundreds (or thousands) of years to go shouldn't be taken literally. With Catholicism, I think you can be a Catholic while still realizing that loads of the Bible are just completely irrelevant and inappropriate in modern society.

i guess they amended those punishments listed in the oldschool bible. Fair enough. I mean it is sort of funny that the whole church is based on not really taking shit seriously. For something in stone, they sure make some handy amendments to keep the racket going.

anyways, really don't want to convince you of something i can't prove. ask yourself why none of your catholic friends have 10 kids. Jesus had a dog but he drowned. Sparky was his name. I mean it is all just kinda silly .

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 With Catholicism, I think you can be a Catholic while still realizing that loads of the Bible are just completely irrelevant and inappropriate in modern society.

That's just it.

For the most part Roman Catholics are NOT bible thumpers. Catholics (again, for the most part) believe in the tradition AND the bible, but unlike baptists for instance the bible isn't the end all be all of the faith.

Also a lot of Catholics are wealthy so they have more important things to do like balancing their portfolios than go to church.

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Originally posted by Alex That's just it. For the most part Roman Catholics are NOT bible thumpers. Catholics (again, for the most part) believe in the tradition AND the bible, but unlike baptists for instance the bible isn't the end all be all of the faith.

exactly. that would be taking things with a grain of salt. they aren't really that fucking serious. And that is all i've been saying. THey aren't devout. They follow the things that most people would do without ever being told. But you go to poor countries and you see that people actually do crazy fucking shit that the vatican prescribes. And that is because you have rational people and then you have people that are devout.

I think we have different definitions of devout then.

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de�vout /diˈvout/ Adjective 1. Having or showing deep religious feeling or commitment. 2. Totally committed to a cause or belief.

I think you believe it's 2, I believe it's 1.

quote:

Originally posted by Alex That's just it. For the most part Roman Catholics are NOT bible thumpers. Catholics (again, for the most part) believe in the tradition AND the bible, but unlike baptists for instance the bible isn't the end all be all of the faith.

North American Catholics seem very reasonable, for the most part. You also have Moral Hazard here, who was a very nice and open-minded Christian, and then there's Stephen Colbert who is the first to make fun of his religion if there's something wrong/illogical. Pope Francis is also an awesome Pope, it just so happens that there's the occasional Vanticunt in the church that tries to bring it back to the Middle Ages, and he has to deal with the ensuing mess.

quote:

Originally posted by Syntonic Have to agree with cloontang, catholics just preach their dogmas and dont preach the word of god/jesus.when you look at basilicas, i dont think jesus had anything like that in mind, he would most likely be on skid row or in the slums.

�Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye
have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle� (2 Thes 2:15 �
KJV).

�I praise you for remembering me in everything and for holding to
the teachings, just as I passed them on to you� (1 Cor 11:2 �
NIV). (Footnote for the word �teachings�: �Or traditions.�)
��withdraw yourselves from every brother that walketh
disorderly, and not after the tradition which he received of us� (2
Thes 3:6 � KJV).

�All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for
doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in
righteousness� (2 Tim 3:16 � KJV). (All scripture, not only
scripture.)

��God�s household, which is the church of the living God, the
pillar and foundation of the truth� (1 Tim 3:15 � NIV). (According
to the Bible, the Church is the pillar and foundation of truth.)

The Catholic position: The Bible is the inspired word of God
and without error (CCC #107). However, the doctrine of
�Scripture alone� is found nowhere in Scripture. The Holy Spirit
guides the Church in teaching the truth about faith and morals.
The Scriptures plus Sacred Tradition constitute the complete
�deposit of faith.�

Jesus gave Peter full authority to preach and lead Christians to salvation:

:�I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter (Rock), and upon
this rock I will build my church�.And I will give unto thee the keys
of the kingdom of heaven� (Matt 16:18-19 � KJV).

all fantastic if any of that was written even decades within his death. And the fact that those names are all made up, in terms of the authors, well ya, that is a document that will not be inconsistent in any way.

quote:

Originally posted by srussell0018 I think we have different definitions of devout then. I think you believe it's 2, I believe it's 1.

I think you are trying make shades of gray pink and yellow. Those words are interchangeable depending on your intent and context.

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