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-- Canadian Education, a top priority
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everyone likes placing blame on others... parents don't spend time with their kids, or educate them at an early age, then blame the school system when their kids fail. teachers can't teach for shit, so they blame cutbacks and politics.... kids spend too much time watching tv and playing video games, then go and blame someone else for their failures... there's nothing wrong with testing kids... getting rid of standardized testing isn't going to solve anything... people need to take responsibility for their actions..

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Originally posted by mr. poopyhead everyone likes placing blame on others... parents don't spend time with their kids, or educate them at an early age, then blame the school system when their kids fail. teachers can't teach for shit, so they blame cutbacks and politics.... kids spend too much time watching tv and playing video games, then go and blame someone else for their failures... there's nothing wrong with testing kids... getting rid of standardized testing isn't going to solve anything... people need to take responsibility for their actions..

So true. I had to EARN my riught to play vidoe gmaes when IW as a kid, or else it was 5 fingers acrosse the face (ouch).

Parents tho, are so busy these days trying to find time alone with one another so if they need a break they sit the kids in front of the tube and let them play video games. That is wrong tho. Like, nowadays I see early teenagers doing COKE!!!!! Where do they get the money fo this? when I was in Highschool it was sooo hard tog et weed. Now u can buy Heroin and E, as well as Rich-man drugs such as cokaine. I had a friend who once went to MIMICO (a place on lakeshore where I live about 10 mins form me) and it was some 12 year old kid asking them "You wanna buy some Rock". What the hell is this world coming too?

This is what we need discipline for in the classroom. But I think In Canada (NO OFFENSE PLZ!) overstressed/other problem affected parents might take advantage of this and turn It into Abuse. I do agree there is a fine line between Abuse and discipline (if they were indeed to do that here) and it could becrossed. Hell I don't even know if they still do that in My Country. But I still believe a good smack fromteh teacher then their parents might make these kids grow up to be soemthing beter than a druggie or juvenile Delinquent. Some Kids will grow out of this, but from what I have seen form the peeps I used to see in Highschool 5 years ago who were not disciplined are still doing drugs and are doing nothing with their life. Some kids grow out of it but most probably will not and the governemtn does not care to imply discipline in the schools.

Actually, one of my neighbours, who is attending secondary school, told me they suspend u for any little shit now. For being late 3 times u get suspended for 2 weeks. Way to go. Pulling them out of school will make them hate school even more and eventually see being suspended as a good thing due to the fact that they don't even wanna be there.

I know that the TAs here attending secondary school are not like that, I hope ) lol jk.

No matter what the tests are or if the stats are skewed, a decline in literacy is a sad thing to hear about. I highly doubt that the number of immigrant high school kids is causing the low percentage of literate students in Canada. The stats aren't based on Toronto schools only. If it's a legitimate statistic then most likely it represents the population.

Really think about what a decrease in literacy means. As you've probably heard before, "We are products of our society!" The children of the present will be the ones that shape the future for the world. Being literate is more than just passing an English class or test. Literacy is one of the building blocks for communication. ...and without good communication skills, you lose the ability to gain & share knowledge with the world around you. Information is stored in literature. So if you can't understand what you read or share your thoughts through speach, you might as well stop thinking. I'm sure a bunch of you think what I'm saying is BS... but when you get to the point of deciding what your career will be you might remember what I've said. Though if your goal is to be the best burger guy at one of our finest fast food restaurants you can start skipping class. Learning is a privalege... take advantage of it while you can.

IMHO... Who to blame for a bad education system doesn't matter. Kids need to learn from an early age that knowledge will be the basis of their future as well as the world. Though you don't have to take my word for it.

Would you like fries with that Burger???

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Originally posted by torontotrance nah.....threats in canada are listening to celine dion's cd's on repeat

LOL....

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Originally posted by Mikman No matter what the tests are or if the stats are skewed, a decline in literacy is a sad thing to hear about. I highly doubt that the number of immigrant high school kids is causing the low percentage of literate students in Canada. The stats aren't based on Toronto schools only. If it's a legitimate statistic then most likely it represents the population. Really think about what a decrease in literacy means. As you've probably heard before, "We are products of our society!" The children of the present will be the ones that shape the future for the world. Being literate is more than just passing an English class or test. Literacy is one of the building blocks for communication. ...and without good communication skills, you lose the ability to gain & share knowledge with the world around you. Information is stored in literature. So if you can't understand what you read or share your thoughts through speach, you might as well stop thinking. I'm sure a bunch of you think what I'm saying is BS... but when you get to the point of deciding what your career will be you might remember what I've said. Though if your goal is to be the best burger guy at one of our finest fast food restaurants you can start skipping class. Learning is a privalege... take advantage of it while you can. IMHO... Who to blame for a bad education system doesn't matter. Kids need to learn from an early age that knowledge will be the basis of their future as well as the world. Though you don't have to take my word for it. Would you like fries with that Burger???

Exactly my point!!! That is soo true. Without education this world is doomed. Like you said Education is a privilege and I think it is not taught as that to kids at an early age at all. English is my second language, I come from a country where you take 14 courses/year (9 months) in highschool. In middle school if you so much fail one class you cannot advance to the next grade.
I agree with the fact that without education all you'll get to be is either a janitor or burger flipper. Think very good where your effort to be someone in the future is going because some day later you'll regret not sitting down for 1 hour and studying a bit more.

I also agree with E*Master and mr. poopyhead, parents also need to take responsibility because education starts at home when a kid is less than 1 yr old.

Peace out!.

I agree completely. The lack of any form of punnishment, either corporal or otherwise, is one of the big problems with our system. Blame can be spread across the board... but Mikman you hit on it man. We are failing to instill a need or desire to be educated in youth.

Pop culture is huge factor in this, and it is a result of what E*Master pointed out. TV and other electronic entertainment (music included) have become babysitters and surrogate parents. Mom and Dad spend maybe a hour with the kids. The teachers are automatically the enemy and must constantly fight to get kids attention, never mind respect. But TV and its buddies gets access to kids 6, 7 even 8 hours a day... and this is something everyone is aware of. Damn, any Simpson fan knows that. Every third episode takes shots at this problem.

The solution is cultural, not systemic. As hippie, peace-loving as it sounds, the answer is to change our culture as a whole. Unfortunately (fortunately ?) wide spread cultural change is not likely.

Cheers,
Fats

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Originally posted by skaborough fats I agree completely. The lack of any form of punnishment, either corporal or otherwise, is one of the big problems with our system. Blame can be spread across the board... but Mikman you hit on it man. We are failing to instill a need or desire to be educated in youth. Pop culture is huge factor in this, and it is a result of what E*Master pointed out. TV and other electronic entertainment (music included) have become babysitters and surrogate parents. Mom and Dad spend maybe a hour with the kids. The teachers are automatically the enemy and must constantly fight to get kids attention, never mind respect. But TV and its buddies gets access to kids 6, 7 even 8 hours a day... and this is something everyone is aware of. Damn, any Simpson fan knows that. Every third episode takes shots at this problem. The solution is cultural, not systemic. As hippie, peace-loving as it sounds, the answer is to change our culture as a whole. Unfortunately (fortunately ?) wide spread cultural change is not likely. Cheers, Fats

A culural change is HIGHLY unlikely unless we clip 90% of the music on TV clip 90% of the TV shows and enforece a higher and more enforced Movie rating system. Back in 1994 I think it was) TheDemon and I, when Mortal combat came out it was rated AA. And there was a bunch of kids turned away who were not 14.. but, the tiony is there was ne parent who had liek 13-20 kids with him (Demon, remember?) and they let them in. these kids were under 10 years old!. Parents also need to be mroe repsonsible int he fact to stop spoiling their kids. Parents are afraid to say "NO" to their kids, cause they start crying in public and stuff. My parents, when Iwould do that after they said "no" I would get a good smack across the bum or face in public, then I had soemthing to cry about. but onceagain, the whole discipline issue comes up. Unless a law comes out that gives (sort of speak) the "Stick" back to the teacher then maybe kids will once again have respect for authority and order. But as of right now that is highly unliely, cause ther is way to many "Soft" parents out there who think that it is bad to disipline your child at home or in school.

Imagine, some snot nosed punk mouthing off to the teacher, calling her/him 4 letter word names, all of the sudden gets their hands smacked witha plactic stick, not once, but 3 times. Do this 2 more times and the teacher regains the respect they deserve and eventuyally kids will udnerstand why they need this. Not to the point of injury, but to the point where they feel it not jsut physically but mentally as well.

yo e*master.... SERIOUS... kids need beatings... i know this is contraversial and all, but i mean, look at the world today... i was reading time magazine about all the disorders that kids have these days, add, bipolar disorder and all that shit... you know what all those so-called behavioural disorders are? they're just SPOILED ASS BRATS... its not a disorder! its called spoiled rotten kids, mouthing off to parents and teachers. i worked at a summer camp for 5 years, and i swear, kids get mouthier and more violent every year... why? i honestly believe its the lack of discipline, beatings or otherwise. anyone in an asian family knows what i'm talking about.... the good 'ol feather duster, =P. serious though, parents aren't disciplining kids anymore... and i don't even mean BEATINGS, though beatings are probably most effective. all this positive reinforcement crap... its retarded.... do you think giving your kid a cookie is gonna keep him from touching a hot stove? or beating up other kids? maybe.... but i say beatings work best... i look back at all the shit my parents did to me, and i honestly have a good laff with my friends about it, cause i know it did me good... all these PC, liberal assholes have ruined us all...

i dunno... maybe some people are gonna think i'm fucked up, but that's just the way i was raised. hell, my brother got worse beatings than me, and i thought i had it bad.... but its a good laff now that i look back. my parents aren't bad people, even though they beat me... kids respond to pain. all animals respond to pain. it works.

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Originally posted by mr. poopyhead yo e*master.... SERIOUS... kids need beatings... i know this is contraversial and all, but i mean, look at the world today... i was reading time magazine about all the disorders that kids have these days, add, bipolar disorder and all that shit... you know what all those so-called behavioural disorders are? they're just SPOILED ASS BRATS... its not a disorder! its called spoiled rotten kids, mouthing off to parents and teachers. i worked at a summer camp for 5 years, and i swear, kids get mouthier and more violent every year... why? i honestly believe its the lack of discipline, beatings or otherwise. anyone in an asian family knows what i'm talking about.... the good 'ol feather duster, =P. serious though, parents aren't disciplining kids anymore... and i don't even mean BEATINGS, though beatings are probably most effective. all this positive reinforcement crap... its retarded.... do you think giving your kid a cookie is gonna keep him from touching a hot stove? or beating up other kids? maybe.... but i say beatings work best... i look back at all the shit my parents did to me, and i honestly have a good laff with my friends about it, cause i know it did me good... all these PC, liberal assholes have ruined us all... i dunno... maybe some people are gonna think i'm fucked up, but that's just the way i was raised. hell, my brother got worse beatings than me, and i thought i had it bad.... but its a good laff now that i look back. my parents aren't bad people, even though they beat me... kids respond to pain. all animals respond to pain. it works.

I totally agree with you. But gotta be careful (might get flamed). but true, give the teacher back the stick. but as I also said, some stressed out parents might take it too far. A good beating, yes, from the teacher so they learn discipline and order gain. thsi will also teach them to have respect for teachers and the school.

I did not receive too many beatings cause I got it the frist time lol. I too have a good lauch with it. Did your parents ever use the wodden spoon? Daaamn that thing hurt!!!!! but you are also right about these wussy guvernments. They think that pain will traumatize the kdis. Bullshit, Youa re not Traumatized, Iam not either, I thank my paprents and my theadhers for giving me beats because I saw why, other kids are fucked up now.
As for the burning stove thing, let them burn thesleves, they will learn never to touch it again.

The way I was raised was as follows:
- if I worked/studied well I got rewards(be it a toy, candy some cash) from my parents
- if I didn't, I got nothing..

IMXO that's how education system should work. Students must learn from very younge age that education brings rewards. This will motivate them to study. For instance in high school I always participated in math olympiads and stuff like that. At first I didn't do well. I was very pissed off. That motivated me to study. And here I am studying at one of the best universities in Canada.

Motivation is the key thing.
And kids in Canada now don't have motivation. Why should they study if they can come home play Quake and forget about all problems?

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Originally posted by Durafei The way I was raised was as follows: - if I worked/studied well I got rewards(be it a toy, candy some cash) from my parents - if I didn't, I got nothing.. IMXO that's how education system should work. Students must learn from very younge age that education brings rewards. This will motivate them to study. For instance in high school I always participated in math olympiads and stuff like that. At first I didn't do well. I was very pissed off. That motivated me to study. And here I am studying at one of the best universities in Canada. Motivation is the key thing. And kids in Canada now don't have motivation. Why should they study if they can come home play Quake and forget about all problems?

That is also true. But kids here are beyond the point of having this done now. If you raised the next generation with these values u can. But as for what is going on now, the only option I see is through harsh discipline. Kids just will not listen.

Kids have no motivation but to"buy the next CD" or "watching that new TV show" and so on. Kids are hooked to the tube. Taht is why they have no motivation. also they don;t think about what will happen to them in 10 years from now. what they see now is go home and turn on the TV or play PS2. Kids don't think about the futre which is why they do bad in school, do drugs and don't do jack shit in their life. they think it will just magicaly change all of the sudden.

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Originally posted by Mikman IMHO... Who to blame for a bad education system doesn't matter. Kids need to learn from an early age that knowledge will be the basis of their future as well as the world. Though you don't have to take my word for it.

Agreed! But try and convince kids in school, that those who poses that desire to learn, will be the ones who succeed in life.

Certainly wasn't something I was thinking about in highschool.

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anyone in an asian family knows what i'm talking about.... the good 'ol feather duster, =P

I sure know that one! Not to mention the wooden sticks that were turned into toothpicks...I think that the school system would work a lot better if all children were actually taught good study habits early on...that should be the basis for all kids to succeed in school.

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Originally posted by Durafei The way I was raised was as follows: - if I worked/studied well I got rewards(be it a toy, candy some cash) from my parents - if I didn't, I got nothing.. IMXO that's how education system should work. Students must learn from very younge age that education brings rewards. This will motivate them to study. For instance in high school I always participated in math olympiads and stuff like that. At first I didn't do well. I was very pissed off. That motivated me to study. And here I am studying at one of the best universities in Canada. Motivation is the key thing. And kids in Canada now don't have motivation. Why should they study if they can come home play Quake and forget about all problems?

So true too, But along with rewards and motivation there has to be also a punishment for bad behaviour. Everything has to be balanced out.
When I was a child if I did good in school I'd get my allowance raised, if I did bad I'd get some taken out of it. I believe everything balanced is good.

Well I'm glad TranceKitten and Fats know what I'm talking about. I agree with what both of you have said as well. Parents do have to start teaching their children from the day they bring them into this world. We're in the information age. Everything you want to know or would like to do is right at your finger tips. It's too bad that amongst all this information there's an equal amount of garbage. Now it's up to us as indivituals to filter out the bad from the good and teach the next generation the same. A little discipline would be a good place to start. That wooden stick use to send me running when I was a kid...

Interesting topic Fats. I think that it goes beyond simply re-instituting corporal punishment on children. It boils down to the entire fabric of society. Having a society where people respect each other. I mean, I doubt many of us where ever really given a proper whack that were dished out by teachers and parents several generations ago, but we were able to have discipline and many of us succeed. I reckon this was out of respect for our authorities be it teachers, parents, etc.. It's all about mutual respect between child and adult. SO many kids have no respect for for authority, just as many parents have no understanding of the true needs of their children re: adequate discipline, giving them love and attention, and simply spending time with them.

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Originally posted by Durafei The way I was raised was as follows: - if I worked/studied well I got rewards(be it a toy, candy some cash) from my parents - if I didn't, I got nothing..

that's the kind of postive reinforcement garbage i'm talking about, hahaha... i mean, its good if it works right? every family has their own way, and i'm glad your parents didn't resort to beatings. but i'm just saying that most of the time, kids need a good beating... why should kids be rewarded for things they SHOULD do?? (ie. cleaning room, doing dishes, studying hard) back in the day if did all that stuff, i got nothing, if i didn't i got a good beating, =P... don't get me wrong here, i'm not saying all kids should be beaten, and any parents who don't do it are wrong... i just think that society has become too soft when it comes to discipline.

I don't blame parents for not using physical punnishment though. Parents are scared witless of childrens services showing up on their door step with a court order. If you so much as look cross eyed at a minor now you can face charges. And all it takes for CS to become involved and take custody is an accusation.

When I worked for the Law Society we constantly heard of cases where the parents had to make appeals and motions to get their children back from childrens aid after the parents were cleared of any wrong doing. It's sickening. Parents have lost the freedom to be parents. They have to worry about how every decision will look to an outside observer.

Christ, when I was in grade school (what 15+ years ago) the school though my father was beating me. They called in child services, the police, school board officials and my father. They were ready to arrest him then and there untill they found out I didn't live with my father and hardly ever saw him!

Either people are too interested in others lives, or not interested at all. There doesn't seem to be a nice safe middle ground...

Cheers,
Fats

well...one thing is for sure, thanks to this thread; I'm not having kids. I have a low tolerance for stupidity

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Originally posted by infinity HiGH well...one thing is for sure, thanks to this thread; I'm not having kids. I have a low tolerance for stupidity

LOL..Well I'm sure that whoever you marry will balance that out for you. Or your other option is to raise kids somewhere else. :P

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Originally posted by skaborough fats I don't blame parents for not using physical punnishment though. Parents are scared witless of childrens services showing up on their door step with a court order. If you so much as look cross eyed at a minor now you can face charges. And all it takes for CS to become involved and take custody is an accusation. When I worked for the Law Society we constantly heard of cases where the parents had to make appeals and motions to get their children back from childrens aid after the parents were cleared of any wrong doing. It's sickening. Parents have lost the freedom to be parents. They have to worry about how every decision will look to an outside observer. Christ, when I was in grade school (what 15+ years ago) the school though my father was beating me. They called in child services, the police, school board officials and my father. They were ready to arrest him then and there untill they found out I didn't live with my father and hardly ever saw him! Either people are too interested in others lives, or not interested at all. There doesn't seem to be a nice safe middle ground... Cheers, Fats

I totally agree..I believe that parents have lost their freedom to raise their kids properly. I understand the fact that some parents might take it too far but come on! a kid needs a good beating once in a while.

I know this lady at work once who told me her kid threatened her with calling child protection services for leaving him outside for the rest of the night because he had skipped school, came home drunk as hell at 2:00 a.m. for the Fifth time!! Who knows what else he was doing--And he was only 12 or 13!!!

Now kids are too damn smart and they don't think twice with threatening their parents if they so try to discipline them a bit.
There is a great need for discipline! I see not many people within the guvernment see this or are doing anything to fix this problem.

Lates.

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