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I totally am. I get absolutely FUCKED by the end of the day if I don't get any.

I'm unable to sleep more than 5 hours. It's very frustrating.

6 on weekdays, 9 on weekends. 12 on awesome weekends.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I firmly believe that the majority of the Western world is physically dependent on it.

Yup.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Caffeine is ultimately an addictive psychoactive drug and I firmly believe that the majority of the Western world is physically dependent on it.

Oh, absolutely. The question I have is if the addiction's benefits are better or worse than the costs. I'm kind of inclined to think the benefits do outweigh those costs, though I have little to base that on.

Thoughts, people?

I don't really understand the aversion towards caffeine, it's like some of you guys are still imbued with the theological concept of your body being some sort of temple of divine purity and perfection.
Yes, it's psychoactive. As are a shocking amount of foods and drinks we consume every day. In the end it's just a natural stimulant that has been with us for centuries, and you're going to have a hard time finding the malicious aura that surrounds the alcohols and opioids of this world around it.

It's not going to ruin your life, and you're not going to be dependent on it unless you let it. As always addiction is not something that falls out of the sky and suddenly hits you in the face because you had the audacity to have three cups of coffee this afternoon. For most people it's going to take extended habitual use, and the reason why it's so prominent here is probably because we have so many people who don't get enough sleep in the first place.

All it takes is responsible use. If you're having an afternoon dip at work there's absolutely no issue with having a few cups to get you through. It's not going to deprive you of sleep because you weren't going to anyway, all it does is stop a bunch of neurons nagging at your brain. If you use it to artificially lengthen the time you spend awake every day then you are impacting your health and functionality, although again that has everything to do with the effects of sleep deprivation and very little with the drug itself.

quote:

Originally posted by Bierheld

My aversion to it has nothing to do with notions of purity (if my body is a temple, I�ve thoroughly desecrated it by now). I don�t take in much caffeine simply because I don�t like the taste of tea or coffee, and consequently I feel at a disadvantage throughout the working day compared to the rest of the world. It seems to me that in the standard modern Western working day individuals just don�t have enough free personal time, and so they�re forced to forgo sleep to balance their lives and fill in the gaps with a systemic stimulant dependency. I�m sure I don�t need to rerun the Bill Hicks bit about how caffeine and alcohol are the acceptable drugs of Western society because they perk us up and knock us out at the necessary moments to bend us into the 9-5 working reality. And I think people are a lot more dependent on it than they realise, precisely because it has no stigma or �malicious aura� associated with other drugs.

This may all just be a fact of life, but on a practical level I find caffeine-soaked consciousness to be a frazzled, erratic and low-quality substitute for genuine rested wakefulness. When I�ve managed to cut it right down I find my concentration is better, I feel more awake during the day, I crash less in the evening, I spend less of my free time �vegging out� and I sleep more easily at night. I�ve also found I rewire my routine subtly, going to bed earlier because I know I won�t be able to artificially amp myself up the following morning, which is probably the most important part. And, of course, I save money. And again, all this is based on a very low level of caffeine consumption compared to most people.

I'm definitely using caffeine to get more hours in the day, although, I went a few months without any and felt just as tired sleeping 4 hours a night.

Work eats up 12 hours of my day, so I can sleep for 8 or I can sleep for 4 and work on my projects for 4.

quote:

This may all just be a fact of life, but on a practical level I find caffeine-soaked consciousness to be a frazzled, erratic and low-quality substitute for genuine rested wakefulness. When I�ve managed to cut it right down I find my concentration is better, I feel more awake during the day, I crash less in the evening, I spend less of my free time �vegging out� and I sleep more easily at night. I�ve also found I rewire my routine subtly, going to bed earlier because I know I won�t be able to artificially amp myself up the following morning, which is probably the most important part. And, of course, I save money. And again, all this is based on a very low level of caffeine consumption compared to most people.

It's definitely not a good substitute for sleep. Personally, if I spend a week getting the proper 8-9 hours of sleep i won't drink any coffee and I'll get loads of shit done at work. It just makes me incredibly bored after a while and as such these weeks are usually succeeded by binge weeks were i barely get 4 hours on avarage. Coffee on such days just stops me from feeling miserable and being completely unproductive, but that is all it does.

Point is, i don't see the point in dodging the stuff out of principle even if you could clearly benefit from it without fucking anything up. Also a lot of the adverse effects you appear to be experiencing are probably more tied to your means of intake. Energydrinks are designed to give you lot's of energy for a short amount of time and you will crash from the rampant sugarhigh after it starts to fade away.
Maybe you should try some caffeine pills instead.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J My aversion to it has nothing to do with notions of purity (if my body is a temple, I�ve thoroughly desecrated it by now). I don�t take in much caffeine simply because I don�t like the taste of tea or coffee, and consequently I feel at a disadvantage throughout the working day compared to the rest of the world. It seems to me that in the standard modern Western working day individuals just don�t have enough free personal time, and so they�re forced to forgo sleep to balance their lives and fill in the gaps with a systemic stimulant dependency. I�m sure I don�t need to rerun the Bill Hicks bit about how caffeine and alcohol are the acceptable drugs of Western society because they perk us up and knock us out at the necessary moments to bend us into the 9-5 working reality. And I think people are a lot more dependent on it than they realise, precisely because it has no stigma or �malicious aura� associated with other drugs. This may all just be a fact of life, but on a practical level I find caffeine-soaked consciousness to be a frazzled, erratic and low-quality substitute for genuine rested wakefulness. When I�ve managed to cut it right down I find my concentration is better, I feel more awake during the day, I crash less in the evening, I spend less of my free time �vegging out� and I sleep more easily at night. I�ve also found I rewire my routine subtly, going to bed earlier because I know I won�t be able to artificially amp myself up the following morning, which is probably the most important part. And, of course, I save money. And again, all this is based on a very low level of caffeine consumption compared to most people.

Spot on. I'm in the same boat, and am also blessed with a wonderfully low tolerance for caffeine - too much kidney/adrenal stimulation and I feel shaky and washed out.

I usually have chai or espresso (<50mg/ea) first thing in the a.m., practice yoga for 1-2 hours, then eat breakfast. I have no problem falling asleep and wake easily in the morning.

Help me classify this style of music...

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J My aversion to it has nothing to do with notions of purity (if my body is a temple, I�ve thoroughly desecrated it by now). I don�t take in much caffeine simply because I don�t like the taste of tea or coffee, and consequently I feel at a disadvantage throughout the working day compared to the rest of the world. It seems to me that in the standard modern Western working day individuals just don�t have enough free personal time, and so they�re forced to forgo sleep to balance their lives and fill in the gaps with a systemic stimulant dependency. I�m sure I don�t need to rerun the Bill Hicks bit about how caffeine and alcohol are the acceptable drugs of Western society because they perk us up and knock us out at the necessary moments to bend us into the 9-5 working reality. And I think people are a lot more dependent on it than they realise, precisely because it has no stigma or �malicious aura� associated with other drugs.

I'm actually quide glad that I find the taste of coffee utterly repugnant, as I'd hate to envision myself as yet another 21st century metropolitan office dweller who playfully nudges and jabs at the fact that I 'just NEED my coffee to get through the day!,' and attempts to account for their pre-10:00 AM ineptitude on account of the fact that I 'haven't had my COFFEE yet lol.'

The crash I�m referring to is what happens in the evening when you stop drinking it to stay productive and the true extent of your fatigue is revealed. I�ve always had a natural propensity to stay up late at night for no obvious reason and a difficulty in waking up early, and maybe caffeine merely provides a psychological justification to indulge in tendencies incompatible with responsible adult life. Whatever the reason, if I start drinking lots of caffeine I stop sleeping properly and start to feel like dogshit, and the less I have the more normal and natural my fatigue levels and sleep seem to be. Maybe other people just don�t encounter the same problems, but just about everyone I work with has a steady flow of tea and coffee across the day, and I can�t believe that level of intake doesn�t have a lasting effect on how you sleep and deal with fatigue.

Personally, I'm switching from caffeine to daily MDMA.

THAT

That will be my EVERY day.

*goes and gets 4th cup of coffee and it's only 1pm*

You know what really gets me jittery though? Ripping on a nicotine vaporizer while working and slamming back cups of coffee because now I legit feel like I'm coming up on pills. #namaste

1988

I actually get about 6.5 hours sleep on an average. Red bull doesn't work for those days I only get 4 or 5. Because I still feel sleepy all day.

used to need 8 or i would be so anxious the next day that i am totally useless. I can do 4 hours for an intense week and still keep it together. Usually, when it was crunch time, i would only sleep every second day. And a few naps of 30 minutes in the day. When i can, i get 8 hours. Just depends on my schedule. I don't need an alarm clock. i either sleep 4 or 8. I still have one but i find i just get up before it rings.

I suppose I 'average' around 6.5 hours per night. I am usually out by 10PM, then rise at 4:30AM on workdays. I find I have trouble staying asleep. I can fall asleep in 10 seconds flat, but I wake 5-10 times per night. I usually fall asleep quickly again, but it's jarring enough to feel exhausted the next day, especially if work (IT job) is hectic and stressful that week. I don't recall the last time I slept a solid 7 or 8 hours without waking multiple times. I'm sure it involved a Xanax bar, though, and those are nearly impossible to come by now in my neck of the woods.

I get zoo much sleep thanks to somnapure!

I usually need about 7-8 hours. 8 1/2 would also be my sweet spot, but I barely get that even when I'm off work on the weekends. I'm too used to my sleeping schedule now. Not really a bad thing though, I used to only be able to sleep after 2:30-3:00 am because of all the partying I used to do, and get about 9 to 10 hours of sleep. I can function at 5-6 hours of sleep, but coffee becomes the utmost importance for me to maintain.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J if you give up caffeine for a week, expect to experience irritability, headaches and more tiredness as your body goes cold turkey. Caffeine is ultimately an addictive psychoactive drug and I firmly believe that the majority of the Western world is physically dependent on it.

Eh, not really the case for me, although I don't object to this statement. Usually on the weekends or my days off I won't even touch any coffee throughout the day. If I don't need it I don't drink it. I've gone at least 4-5 days in a row without touching a single drop and aside from getting irritated by the daily bs, I don't normally feel any withdrawal symptoms. I do drink caffeinated sodas though, usually about a can per day. I imagine that would be a little more difficult for me to drop than coffee.

im lucky if i get 5 hours of sleep, i usually get about 4. thank god for coffee

11 hours, but I stay up for the next 33 or so.

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