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-- CBM - Voltaic - good old fashioned trance?
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It's like the last ten years of TranceAddict never happened.

Kos', you're going on about a very different branch of trance than what J's going on about. Gary D, Komakino, and the like were all hard German trance, which I adore, for the record, but I make no illusion that it can be incredibly campy at times. Thing about the Germans though is, for as goofy as it could get (hi, Mo-Do!), there was an undeniable charm to it too, a fun sort of cheese that has its place. I can see why J' would dislike it tho', as his UK bias is well known.

It's the Dutch styled trance that most folks point towards as the ruination of the genre, with overblown supersaw breakdown anthems and hyper-marketing, DJ worshiping antics to match. Really, point to any genre in electronic music, and you'll find the Dutch ruining it: hardcore --> gabber; electro house --> Dutch house (Afrojack,etc.); and so on. Their cheese is almost unanimously godawful.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Kos', you're going on about a very different branch of trance than what J's going on about. Gary D, Komakino, and the like were all hard German trance, which I adore, for the record, but I make no illusion that it can be incredibly campy at times. Thing about the Germans though is, for as goofy as it could get (hi, Mo-Do!), there was an undeniable charm to it too, a fun sort of cheese that has its place. I can see why J' would dislike it tho', as his UK bias is well known. It's the Dutch styled trance that most folks point towards as the ruination of the genre, with overblown supersaw breakdown anthems and hyper-marketing, DJ worshiping antics to match. Really, point to any genre in electronic music, and you'll find the Dutch ruining it: hardcore --> gabber; electro house --> Dutch house (Afrojack,etc.); and so on. Their cheese is almost unanimously godawful.

Yeah, I suppose you're right...I took offense though since cheesy is typically synonymous with bad, and he was saying this with the pretense that my music is shit and that that kind of music in general is shit. Trance is more or less, brooding as it seems, the only thing that means much of anything to me these days.
I can really appreciate dutch stuff; early Rank 1 and System F were great projects imo, but around 2004-2006 the melodies and progressions just became so typical that every track started to sound like a rehashing of the last. This is the main reason I rarely listen to any modern uplifting stuff anymore, it's all more or less the same thing.
I do really like the sound though; used properly, it can bring a lot of energy to a track, such as Solange - Messages (Gouryella Mix)
I try to use it sparingly these days however.
By the way...I used to make some supersaw stuff in 2012...

I don't know if Trance is dead or not, I just think it's become complete garbage compared to what it's been before 2004 or so. That may also partly be on account of growing out of it. There has always been lots of cheesy Trance, even in the early 90s, but there was good stuff as well. Now it pretty much all seems cheesy.

Acid Trance is dead for sure though, probly has been since 97' or so.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Acid Trance is dead for sure though, probly has been since 97' or so.

I think acid's going to be making a comeback eventually. Armin's latest track "Ping Pong" features a 303 line, and when I saw Ferry Corsten last year, he dropped Glenn Morrison - Marquee, which practically steals the lead from New Order - Confusion (Pump Panel Mix)

Ferry also did some tracks not too long ago that featured 303 basslines. I think it's going to be popular again very soon.

Well, acid is still somewhat alive and kicking (albeit barely), but that Marquee and Ping Pong track aren't acid trance, though. Haven't heard the Ferry ones.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred Well, acid is still somewhat alive and kicking (albeit barely), but that Marquee and Ping Pong track aren't acid trance, though. Haven't heard the Ferry ones.

Acid is more or less just a trance tune that predominantly features a sequenced 303 lead. There's a lot of variety in what these tracks can sound like really, but I'd call Marquee and Ping Pong big room / acid hybrids. They're no Acid Air Raid, but even the fact that the formant 303 sound is the main focus of those songs seems to me like it'll become popular again. This is what I was referring to with the 303 bass. Not that good a tune overall imo but that bass is sweet.

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Originally posted by Sykonee It's the Dutch styled trance that most folks point towards as the ruination of the genre, with overblown supersaw breakdown anthems and hyper-marketing, DJ worshiping antics to match. Really, point to any genre in electronic music, and you'll find the Dutch ruining it: hardcore --> gabber; electro house --> Dutch house (Afrojack,etc.); and so on. Their cheese is almost unanimously godawful.

Germans are the best to ever do it when it comes to making trance, but the Dutch are a close second imo. it might be slightly cheesy or just flatout cheesy but the power and grace that Geert Huinink and Benno De Goeij instilled in their tracks will always resonate in my opinion.

quote:

Originally posted by 2techs Germans are the best to ever do it when it comes to making trance, but the Dutch are a close second imo. it might be slightly cheesy or just flatout cheesy but the power and grace that Geert Huinink and Benno De Goeij instilled in their tracks will always resonate in my opinion.

Rank 1's remix of Cygnus X's "Superstring" remains one of my all time favorites. Still gives me chills! Early dutch trance was often fantastic stuff, it was only when it became a cliche that it started to go downhill for me.

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Originally posted by kosmotika Acid is more or less just a trance tune that predominantly features a sequenced 303 lead.

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you made a typo here.

That Ferry tune is not acid, although it has some background synth that sounds somewhat acidic. It's not Trance either, so I'm actually curious if there has been a single acid trance track in the last 17 years or so, with the 303 being the predominant instrument.

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Originally posted by AlphaStarred I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume you made a typo here. That Ferry tune is not acid, although it has some background synth that sounds somewhat acidic. It's not Trance either, so I'm actually curious if there has been a single acid trance track in the last 17 years or so, with the 303 being the predominant instrument.

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Acid trance is a style of trance music that emerged in the late 1980s and early 1990s focusing on using the acid sound. The trademark sound of "acid" is produced with a Roland TB-303 by playing a sequenced melody while altering the instrument's filter cutoff frequency, resonance, envelope modulation, and accent controls. This real-time tone adjustment was not part of the instrument's original intended operation.

I made a track some time ago that may be considered acid, though there's no sequenced lead...moreso in the style of late 90s hard acid tunes.

You wrote "Acid...is a trance tune" instead of "Acid trance," hence the typo.

Have you thought about getting the TB 3? You could definitely make some nice acid trance with that.

That quote is misleading, btw, as the first acid trance track was probably released in 1991, rather than the late 80s.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred You wrote "Acid...is a trance tune" instead of "Acid trance," hence the typo. Have you thought about getting the TB 3? You could definitely make some nice acid trance with that. That quote is misleading, btw, as the first acid trance track was probably released in 1991, rather than the late 80s.

Ah yeah, I see what you mean, my bad. Was totally disregarding acid house & techno. I'd like to, but I can't find a legitimate one under a few thousand dollars and no clones that aren't at least 500...this is mainly why I'm limited to using digital gear. Every piece of hardware I'd like is too pricey for my budget.
Would absolutely love one if I could find it cheap though.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Kos', you're going on about a very different branch of trance than what J's going on about. Gary D, Komakino, and the like were all hard German trance, which I adore, for the record, but I make no illusion that it can be incredibly campy at times. Thing about the Germans though is, for as goofy as it could get (hi, Mo-Do!), there was an undeniable charm to it too, a fun sort of cheese that has its place. I can see why J' would dislike it tho', as his UK bias is well known.

I remember when Hardtrance had its fame, there where so many styles, different diversity to choose from within. Unlike nowadays "Full-On" or "Trouse", Its pretty much monotonous and bland. Its like everybody is using the same god damn program or studio. Anyway here are my categorization of them.

- Dumonde/Flutlicht/SHOKK - Very distinct progressive raw and strong buildups with soothing melodies, you could immediately tell its by them just listening to the percussions alone. I can't imagine HT without them to be honest. Unique is simply an understatement when using it to describe them


- Overdose/Tracid - One of German's Finest, shaped the whole HT scene in favor to them (Hennes & Cold, Scot Project, ASYS, DJ Wag)


- Cosmic Gate/Yves Deruyter/Talla 2xlc - Hard Trance that is not so bangin' but still maintain its HT elements


- Andreas Kr�mer & Thomas Pogadl/Marc La Cruz & Ace Da Brain/Uberdruck/Arne ILL & Mirko Milano - The Other side of German HT, sinister, dark and mesmerizing, I can never get enough of them


- STIK/BXR/Suntec/Future Sound Corp/ - The Italians have their own way of doing Hardtrance wich is normally credited as "Early Hardstyle" limiting the use of melodies or eradicating them once and for all


- Tunnel Records/D Trance/Manifold - Gary D, Cocooma, DJ Mellow-D, Dean, Gollum & Yanny/DJ Darkzone


- Balloon/Warp Brothers/ - That strong gated kick that everybody is familiar with. I don't think anybody associate them with HT back then but to me they are the face of commercial HT


- Oliver Klitzing/Yoji Biomehanika - Tech and Hardtrance hybrid


- Alphazone, JK Walker, Mat Silver & Tony Burt - UK wants a piece of the hard trance action!

Icesotope, I love you man. Very good guide. All those tunes are awesome. Gets me thinking about making a totally comprehensive guide to trance subgenres actually...dunno how useful it would be though.
Mat Silver is german though, isn't he?

One thing that kind of gets me bummed out seeing how obscure these genres are in today's market...you really had everybody doing their own thing back then. Now everyone's just kind of bandwagoning, jumping ship to the "next big thing" and then these artists quickly lose relevancy because that sound they spent so long learning to perfect goes out of style and they have to relearn because they can't find their own niche...it's a shame really.

quote:

Originally posted by kosmotika I think acid's going to be making a comeback eventually. Armin's latest track "Ping Pong" features a 303 line, and when I saw Ferry Corsten last year, he dropped Glenn Morrison - Marquee, which practically steals the lead from New Order - Confusion (Pump Panel Mix) Ferry also did some tracks not too long ago that featured 303 basslines. I think it's going to be popular again very soon.

Or this one from the upcoming Aly & Fila - Quiet Storm Remixes album.
Think the vocals could be less, the breakdown also, but the 303 makes up for that, remembers me of Scooter again, massive energy in there.

quote:

Originally posted by Sykonee Kos', you're going on about a very different branch of trance than what J's going on about. Gary D, Komakino, and the like were all hard German trance, which I adore, for the record, but I make no illusion that it can be incredibly campy at times. Thing about the Germans though is, for as goofy as it could get (hi, Mo-Do!), there was an undeniable charm to it too, a fun sort of cheese that has its place. I can see why J' would dislike it tho', as his UK bias is well known. It's the Dutch styled trance that most folks point towards as the ruination of the genre, with overblown supersaw breakdown anthems and hyper-marketing, DJ worshiping antics to match. Really, point to any genre in electronic music, and you'll find the Dutch ruining it: hardcore --> gabber; electro house --> Dutch house (Afrojack,etc.); and so on. Their cheese is almost unanimously godawful.

The Dutch made some genres much more popular then they were before, but saying they ruined the genres because of that doesn't sound right to me. When something gets that popular, you know at some point it will be over. In my opinion trance nowadays isn't less then before the Dutch marketing machine got fired up.
And gabber ruining hardcore more sounds like a joke to me to be honest.

I don't like the electro shit at all and am surprised every time a Dutch DJ (now e.g. Martin Garrix) out of the blue gets popular worldwide.
Saying that ruins house, of course not, it's not even the same group of listeners. They probably never even listened real house, or even enjoy it.

Here some house by Morning Factory, if you want a sign of real house made in Holland: Morning Factory - Looking

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M And gabber ruining hardcore more sounds like a joke to me to be honest.

Yes, I was being deliberately hyperbolic. After all, I'd never go so far as to say Speedy J ruined techno.

Dutch house is still ass tho'.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M gabber ruining hardcore more sounds like a joke to me to be honest.

Well, let's not kid ourselves now...afterall, this is a real thing:

That is by far the shittiest thing I've ever owned. A gabber christmas album.

Also, that Morning Factory tune was lovely, nice and chill, just the way I like it.

Re: Re: - the time are changing

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Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Well, your DJ bio says this: Whether it's as a "niche" or not isn't really relevant to me. Five years ago everyone just said trance was dead in the water but now there's this narrative that it's coming back, which encourages people to try and find these tunes and be overly optimistic about them because they simply can't let the old times go. You're not the only one I've seen do this, to be fair. As I said in my last post, I think you're giving average tunes extra value because they remind you of better records from a better era in the past, not because they're actually very good in their own right. I think it's inevitable you'll disagree though, isn't it?

yes - my bio probably need updating.

however the disagreement is certain. when i find 'these tunes' i don't get overly optimistic - i enjoy it for what it is. i have stopped looking at tunes a genre or music style that have a narrative and are leading to a utopian world. i simply enjoy it for the fact that its here, i enjoy it and its a new to me.

gotta live in the now man.


in some respects i do agree with a couple of posts about joof letting the more pure psytrance aspects go in his style - at work I've been you tubing his progressive euphoria cd's and i now think this my favourite joof era. it feels like the psy got us through the last decade but its now time to change. it really stood out in this months gtg for me.

but really its his personal style and who the fark am i to give a total master any advice lol

quote:

Originally posted by kosmotika I'd like to, but I can't find a legitimate one under a few thousand dollars and no clones that aren't at least 500...

The new Roland TB-3 AIRA product is only $299 with free shipping, and it sounds great: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TB3

It also has USB, so you can hook it up to your DAW.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred The new Roland TB-3 AIRA product is only $299 with free shipping, and it sounds great: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TB3 It also has USB, so you can hook it up to your DAW.

Yep, its pretty sick and it sounds just right. While it does have some MIDI support, I havn't yet found a way to change the current pattern using MIDI control so I have to record the riff and then sequence it.

Would be cool if acid made a comeback, maybe the TB-3 will help.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred The new Roland TB-3 AIRA product is only $299 with free shipping, and it sounds great: http://www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/TB3 It also has USB, so you can hook it up to your DAW.

Cool! Will definitely give it a look, thanks for pointing it out.
The first arp the guy is playing with in the vid is very similar to this one which is several years old...

Hi Guys,

I'd like to join the conversation here as it's a great debate.
Every human being has subjective views that are personal to them, my previous greatest Trance track was completely overlooked and miss understood, but to me it hit the nail on the head to what is my take personal take on the essence of Trance, especially as I saw first hand what it did to dance floors each week. Others will have a completely different choice, there is no right or wrong.
Here's the track:



I've been known to have the odd rant now and then, but that is when I was in a frustrated lost place due to not being able to find the music I wanted. I've learnt by venting words doesn't make this music appear, it just makes people talk about it, and usually reminisce about old times. So I now take action. There's constant talk about the lack of serious Trance, this doesn't exactly encourage producers to get in the studio to make this style thinking it's a style that no one wants, especially in the current climate of people following 'trends' set by A lists.
Yes recently I've been openly saying positive things about the more serious side of Trance becoming more active, because I'm personally seeing it due to being one of the rare DJ�s that supports. It's surprising how many producers get motivated when a well know DJ speaks out supporting the more underground scene, especially at a time when you feel you're swimming upstream against the masses, it can be a lonely place I've been to many times.

I�ve never sold my dignity and will always stay true to what I believe in musically, though this can often be a frustrating journey not being able to find the music that I need. Psy has been a faithful friend over the past decade filling a musical void in the harder parts of my sets, but not a perfect fit, especially with this world starting to fall victim of fashion and starting to sound �samish� like its all coming from the same studio. My recent sets and radio shows reflect this, with me playing less.

So what is next for Trance? Do I lose my faith, keep quiet and watch the commercial machines continue to control their monopoly. It would be easy for me to jump ship to something more mainstream and enjoy the finical rewards, but I�ve been with Trance since it was born in the early 90�s and have faith in its ever evolving sound..yes things have got stale in the past few years, but as history shows, Trance will come through again and I�m seeing the very same signs that I�ve seen previously.

John


Re a comment regarding JOOF releases, JOOF tracks are not meant to be memorable they are DJs tools aimed squarely for the dance floor and not for radio. That's always been my ethos, being a traditional DJ.

quote:

Originally posted by Light The Fuse i simply enjoy it for the fact that its here, i enjoy it and its a new to me. gotta live in the now man.

I think that's a strange thing to say when you've made a thread called "Good old fashioned trance". For me, "living in the now" means moving on from trying to find "good old fashioned trance" with modern production and actually embrace all the great club music being made. I'll still go see J00F because he's a fantastic DJ, and artists like Cosmithex and Solar Fields are still world class, but I've given up scraping around on Beatport for the one half decent track out of every 100.

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