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I know you werent talking to me but i just thought i'd comment on something.... I don't see how we seem racist, but that may be because i'm American. But when you see pictures of people burning your national flag, how can you not be racist? I don't know how other countries are run and whether or not they are jealous of our country but it just sucks when people put down your country for being racist or what not, when we are just being patriotic. For example: the attacks of September 11th... they attacked us, they burned our flag, etc. That leaves us with every right to be racist or anything else, because they had no right to attack us. Again every person can have their opinion, but don't make false accusations and try to claim that we are racist when we aren't and we have reasons to hate because we are being patriotic and taking up for our country just like you would do if your country were attacked by the afghanistan people.

quote:

Originally posted by XxremedyxX I know you werent talking to me but i just thought i'd comment on something.... I don't see how we seem racist, but that may be because i'm American. But when you see pictures of people burning your national flag, how can you not be racist? I don't know how other countries are run and whether or not they are jealous of our country but it just sucks when people put down your country for being racist or what not, when we are just being patriotic. For example: the attacks of September 11th... they attacked us, they burned our flag, etc. That leaves us with every right to be racist or anything else, because they had no right to attack us.

this little text clearly says to me that you really don't have a clue what the term RACIST means....

it is actually quite sad what some people are saying in this thread, read what mr poopyhead says and I think that every American agrees with what he says

*sigh*

You know actually, you have no clue what you are talking about. See because i know what racist means and you don't live in America, and so you can't speak for America so please, learn to respect and know what you're talking about before you go and talk shit.

quote:

Originally posted by XxremedyxX You know actually, you have no clue what you are talking about. See because i know what racist means and you don't live in America, and so you can't speak for America so please, learn to respect and know what you're talking about before you go and talk shit.

you certainly ain't a racist when you don't like Arabs for burning the American flag.... That is patriottism

you are a racist when you think you are better (read: superiour) then another group of people with other believes and habits, and when you treat them that way

quote:

Originally posted by XxremedyxX i know what racist means and you don't live in America, and so you can't speak for America so please, learn to respect and know what you're talking about before you go and talk shit.

what's your point, I have no respect because I think your explanation of the word racism is wrong?? I don't know what racism means because I am not an American??

Not everyone here in America is in agreement with our bad boy Texan in control. Not everyone here wants to open a can of Woopass on another country because, "afterall, they did try to kill my Dad (Bush Sr. that is)." In fact, some of us here still believe Bush wasn't truly elected to sit the White House, but have to deal with it nonetheless. Many of us are a little bit uncomfortable with his stance on this whole issue, as well as the push through Congress to get his War resolution passed right before Congressional elections. Great timing. Some of us believe that Bush's stance on many foreign issues, Iraq included, is doing nothing shy of alienating us from the rest of the world, which cripples world economy as a whole. And even a few of us believe that Bush is doing a nice job redirecting our national attention away from our domestic problems with this whole Iraq crap, thus allowing our economy (and world economy for that matter) to crumble.

I guess I simply don't trust the guy a whole lot, and I'm certainly not part of "Americal speaking with one voice" with this jerk in the office (along with his entire warmongering cabinet). I'd fight for other wars if I lived in the past- WWI, WWII, Korean, probably not Vietnam (but then again, Bush wouldn't either- joined the National Guard, then got "honorably discharged" thanks to dear old Dad). But I would never support or fight such a war when we take such an aggressive stance. This war of terrorism is not fought against countries, it is fought against groups or cells. This war is a lame-ass excuse for Bush to go after Saddam for personal reasons, and it will truly be a tragedy to have many lives lost over such a personal and unjust cause. It pains me to see the ignorance of some in my country, just because they take the word of our supposed leader as gospel.

Re: why people hate america...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead this is by no means a thread to bash america... i'm not trying to stir up shit... i just want people to read some of the ignorance that prevails in america today.. letters to time magazine, octover 14, 2002: "It is revealing that most of the Lackawanna Six, accused of being al-Qaeda members, are unemployed underachievers whose loyalty to their country is ambiguous at best, given their religious extremism. Like these disaffected alleged terrorists, many people who live in the Arab world have been on the unemployment line for years. Arab jealousy of Western success and power is the root of the recent terrorism. RICHARD L. JOHNSON College Station, Texas" this is exactly this kind of attitude makes people hate america. i almost pissed myself when i read this. obviously this is not the mentality of the entire nation, but it is the ignorance of a portion of the population. unfortunately, this portion of the population has a loud voice in america, a voice that is amplified 100x by their own president george w. its sad to see that america gets such a bad rap because of the stupidity of a few people (a lot of them in positions of prominence and power), shooting off their mouths. the voices of sanity in america rarely get heard. its unfortunate. another thing, if i hear someone talk about people who "hate freedom" one more time, i'm gonna explode... nobody hates freedom. that's such a lame excuse... read the letter above and you'll see why people might be driven to attack america... and for the record, osama is a millionaire. its not poverty that drove him to a life of terrorism. all this foolish talk of war is sending gas prices through the roof... bush needs to shut his trap..

u pretty muched summed it all right there

Nice post MisterOpus1, its glad to see some people actually READ the original post before becoming all defensive. If anything, I would be ashamed of what some of my fellow countrymen are saying if I saw something like that printed in a Canadian magazine, instead of just shooting my mouth about "anti-american" this and that, and turning a blind eye to it all. The original post was not "whining" or "bashing" anything. If you people would put the effort into reading and comprehending what he had to say, you wouldn't come across as such idiots.

On another note, there is no justification for racism either. WTC was NOT attacked by the whole muslim people, it was attacked by terrorists who happened to be muslim extremists. And even then, your efforts should be against TERRORISTS not any particular race ie arabs. There IS a difference.

What Mr.Johnson from Texas was saying is nothing short of RACIST. And sadly, what mr_poopyhead tried to point out, is that his opinion gets published, and in a way represents the voice of alot of his fellow countrymen, whether you like it or not. And that is what the stereotypes stem from.

And if you didn't see the original point of this post, you were probably all caught up in your own patriotism to actually see the problem here, and moronically assumed that this was a "bash america" thread.

Blik: Obviously you need to read again see because i never defined the word racism. How bout we just drop this discussion its not worth gettin into an arguement with you because i have no problem with you. So lets just leave it at that...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead if you didn't read my post (which i'm guessing you didn't), i'll sum it up in a few words for you. i was just saying that the racist views of a few in america are over-represented in the media (as illustrated in the letter i quoted), and its giving the rest of the country a bad image. people see america as racist and egocentric. i think your post about not giving a shit about canada serves to prove my point. nowhere in my post was there anything anti-american, so let's not get all uptight. i guess my thread title is a little misleading though, sorry.

Honestly, I didn't really read any of it. All you got to do is look at the title and there ya go. When Canada and America are in the same subject on this board, shit gets ugly anyway.



The thing is, all you people KNOW is the media. That is it. You don't live here, you don't know our society, and you're basing your opinions on our media, what you read and hear. If you're ignorant enough to believe everything you read and see on tv, then so be it. In my opinion thats ridiculous, and way too many assumptions are made.

How you people think we are affiliated with public news, written stories, among other things, I don't know. Sure, there are people that really do represent the opinion you are stating, but do you think an american magazine/article/newscast is going to represent an "anti-american" view? Ofcourse not. Its media. Its to attract the public. If you guys believe we are actually 100% gung ho about what flashes on your tv screens, then you're just plain wrong.

Eitherway, the amount of canada vs. america posts are getting ridiculous. All I see is a bunch of Canadians crying, about this, and that, and that, and this. My whole opinion on Canada in general, is unwillingly and naturally changing everytime I see new post of some Candian whining about our form of politics, or our ethics, among other things. What you guys expect to change, I don't know. But you guys aren't exactly on the top of our "most influental" list lol

quote:

Originally posted by MisterOpus1 Not everyone here in America is in agreement with our bad boy Texan in control. Not everyone here wants to open a can of Woopass on another country because, "afterall, they did try to kill my Dad (Bush Sr. that is)." In fact, some of us here still believe Bush wasn't truly elected to sit the White House, but have to deal with it nonetheless. Many of us are a little bit uncomfortable with his stance on this whole issue, as well as the push through Congress to get his War resolution passed right before Congressional elections. Great timing. Some of us believe that Bush's stance on many foreign issues, Iraq included, is doing nothing shy of alienating us from the rest of the world, which cripples world economy as a whole. And even a few of us believe that Bush is doing a nice job redirecting our national attention away from our domestic problems with this whole Iraq crap, thus allowing our economy (and world economy for that matter) to crumble. I guess I simply don't trust the guy a whole lot, and I'm certainly not part of "Americal speaking with one voice" with this jerk in the office (along with his entire warmongering cabinet). I'd fight for other wars if I lived in the past- WWI, WWII, Korean, probably not Vietnam (but then again, Bush wouldn't either- joined the National Guard, then got "honorably discharged" thanks to dear old Dad). But I would never support or fight such a war when we take such an aggressive stance. This war of terrorism is not fought against countries, it is fought against groups or cells. This war is a lame-ass excuse for Bush to go after Saddam for personal reasons, and it will truly be a tragedy to have many lives lost over such a personal and unjust cause. It pains me to see the ignorance of some in my country, just because they take the word of our supposed leader as gospel.

nice post... this is exactly the kind of thing that needs more attention in the media, so that americans aren't portrayed as flag-waving, gun-toting lunatics. i totally agree. a war on terrorism cannot be fought against an entire country.

quote:

Originally posted by SportTrance Honestly, I didn't really read any of it. All you got to do is look at the title and there ya go. When Canada and America are in the same subject on this board, shit gets ugly anyway. The thing is, all you people KNOW is the media. That is it. You don't live here, you don't know our society, and you're basing your opinions on our media, what you read and hear. If you're ignorant enough to believe everything you read and see on tv, then so be it. In my opinion thats ridiculous, and way too many assumptions are made. How you people think we are affiliated with public news, written stories, among other things, I don't know. Sure, there are people that really do represent the opinion you are stating, but do you think an american magazine/article/newscast is going to represent an "anti-american" view? Ofcourse not. Its media. Its to attract the public. If you guys believe we are actually 100% gung ho about what flashes on your tv screens, then you're just plain wrong. Eitherway, the amount of canada vs. america posts are getting ridiculous. All I see is a bunch of Canadians crying, about this, and that, and that, and this. My whole opinion on Canada in general, is unwillingly and naturally changing everytime I see new post of some Candian whining about our form of politics, or our ethics, among other things. What you guys expect to change, I don't know. But you guys aren't exactly on the top of our "most influental" list lol

1. how can you comment on a post that you didn't even read then?? threads like this shouldn't get ugly unless people start losing their cool and posting without reading.

2. yes. we DON'T live in america, that's why we have to rely on the MEDIA to know what's going on. obviously the media isn't always right, and no i don't believe everything i read in the media. that's what this whole thread is about. i think the american media should be more responsible in conveying an image to the rest of the world.

3. nobody said anything about canada vs. america... i happen to be canadian, and i happened to read something in a magazine that seems to give america a bad image. if anything, i'm only defending america. its not "whining" when i have facts to back it up.

"america sux ballz" <-- that's whining... if you can find any of that in any of my posts. i will delete them.

Re: why people hate america...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead this is by no means a thread to bash america... i'm not trying to stir up shit... i just want people to read some of the ignorance that prevails in america today.. letters to time magazine, octover 14, 2002: "It is revealing that most of the Lackawanna Six, accused of being al-Qaeda members, are unemployed underachievers whose loyalty to their country is ambiguous at best, given their religious extremism. Like these disaffected alleged terrorists, many people who live in the Arab world have been on the unemployment line for years. Arab jealousy of Western success and power is the root of the recent terrorism. RICHARD L. JOHNSON College Station, Texas"

If anyone doesn't see the parallel between arab anti-american propaganda, and hitler's anti-semetic propaganda, they have a rock up their a$$. Americans will be the target of the next genocide, by arab nukes, so I take anti-americanism very seriously, especially since I'm an American.

Re: Re: why people hate america...

quote:

Originally posted by Verona^My If anyone doesn't see the parallel between arab anti-american propaganda, and hitler's anti-semetic propaganda, they have a rock up their a$$. Americans will be the target of the next genocide, by arab nukes, so I take anti-americanism very seriously, especially since I'm an American.

since when has america been at war with the arab world? arab nukes? you're at war with terrorists.

mr. johnson's letter has nothing to do with anti-american propaganda. it's nothing more than plain old racism.

Re: why people hate america...

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead this is by no means a thread to bash america... i'm not trying to stir up shit... i just want people to read some of the ignorance that prevails in america today.. letters to time magazine, octover 14, 2002: "It is revealing that most of the Lackawanna Six, accused of being al-Qaeda members, are unemployed underachievers whose loyalty to their country is ambiguous at best, given their religious extremism. Like these disaffected alleged terrorists, many people who live in the Arab world have been on the unemployment line for years. Arab jealousy of Western success and power is the root of the recent terrorism. RICHARD L. JOHNSON College Station, Texas" this is exactly this kind of attitude makes people hate america. i almost pissed myself when i read this. obviously this is not the mentality of the entire nation, but it is the ignorance of a portion of the population. unfortunately, this portion of the population has a loud voice in america, a voice that is amplified 100x by their own president george w. its sad to see that america gets such a bad rap because of the stupidity of a few people (a lot of them in positions of prominence and power), shooting off their mouths. the voices of sanity in america rarely get heard. its unfortunate. another thing, if i hear someone talk about people who "hate freedom" one more time, i'm gonna explode... nobody hates freedom. that's such a lame excuse... read the letter above and you'll see why people might be driven to attack america... and for the record, osama is a millionaire. its not poverty that drove him to a life of terrorism. all this foolish talk of war is sending gas prices through the roof... bush needs to shut his trap..

If you think that attitude is bad. Check out some hard core arab propaganda. I assure you, in every way, they are worse than us.

They want an islamic jihad, a holywar, because they think we are the great satan. And the arabs are jealous over western success, else why would they strike at economic targets. They could have flew their planes into the white house, instead of the twin towers. But they want to bring down western economies... which is why they attacked the nightclub in Bali, to shutdown the western tourism industry.

"Nobody hates freedom"... well actually I'd disagree with you there. Some people do hate freedom, especially religious people who want tight control over moral issues, and people who think totalitarianism is more effecient (they're out there). So dont say anything stupid like nobody hates freedom...

I bet you a lot of religious fanatics in Pakistan & their military leader hate freedom, because of the evils it will bring to the people. This is one of the big reasons they hate western culture, becuase we are free to express ourselves in ways that are an abomination to them. We export our violent Hollywood elite movies all over the world, some people see American cultural exportation as a bad thing in their countries, and helps spur anti-american extremism. I actually dont blame them in this case, because American culture is pretty pathetic, especially our urban culture and those gold chains & thug crap. Even I find that disgusting.

Personally, I think our government should get a better handle on our cultural exports.

Ive lived here all my life and I'd have to see as a nationa we ARE ignorant.

This is the place where shitty bands/people like eminem/linkin park can thrive

its truely pathetic

Re: Re: why people hate america...

quote:

Originally posted by Verona^My If you think that attitude is bad. Check out some hard core arab propaganda. I assure you, in every way, they are worse than us. They want an islamic jihad, a holywar, because they think we are the great satan. And the arabs are jealous over western success, else why would they strike at economic targets. They could have flew their planes into the white house, instead of the twin towers. But they want to bring down western economies... which is why they attacked the nightclub in Bali, to shutdown the western tourism industry. "Nobody hates freedom"... well actually I'd disagree with you there. Some people do hate freedom, especially religious people who want tight control over moral issues, and people who think totalitarianism is more effecient (they're out there). So dont say anything stupid like nobody hates freedom... I bet you a lot of religious fanatics in Pakistan & their military leader hate freedom, because of the evils it will bring to the people. This is one of the big reasons they hate western culture, becuase we are free to express ourselves in ways that are an abomination to them. We export our violent Hollywood elite movies all over the world, some people see American cultural exportation as a bad thing in their countries, and helps spur anti-american extremism. I actually dont blame them in this case, because American culture is pretty pathetic, especially our urban culture and those gold chains & thug crap. Even I find that disgusting. Personally, I think our government should get a better handle on our cultural exports.

you must not live here, they did try to hit the whitehouse, people on the plane crashed the plane trying to stop the terrorists (THEY LANDED IN A FIELD)

I also think it's retarded for bush to name countries the "axis of evil"? wtf? Then we are the GOOD guys? LOL No one ever acknowledges the afghanistanian civilian deaths, they had more then us and they aren't even mentioned.

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead 1. how can you comment on a post that you didn't even read then?? threads like this shouldn't get ugly unless people start losing their cool and posting without reading. 2. yes. we DON'T live in america, that's why we have to rely on the MEDIA to know what's going on. obviously the media isn't always right, and no i don't believe everything i read in the media. that's what this whole thread is about. i think the american media should be more responsible in conveying an image to the rest of the world. 3. nobody said anything about canada vs. america... i happen to be canadian, and i happened to read something in a magazine that seems to give america a bad image. if anything, i'm only defending america. its not "whining" when i have facts to back it up. "america sux ballz" <-- that's whining... if you can find any of that in any of my posts. i will delete them.

I'm not targeting you specifically. Its the general foreign opinion. Why this post was made in the first place, who knows. You should realize by now no actual solution or even an understanding can be made on this forum. Any post, regarding the united states, becomes a boxing match. I say save it for the political forum.

and Swamper, if you got something to say about my posts, say it here, don't say it in your little cuddly chat room or anywhere else, where everyone and their grandma is on your side kissing your ass.

The Civilian deaths in afghanistan are a tragedy. I have mentioned them many times on here, you just have to look.

you won't find a news story in american media about them though.

check out this article:

http://www27.brinkster.com/antiwar/....asp#agressive1

As for why people hate americans? well.... it's the war mongers we hate, and the ones who would kill innocents. I hate those americans.

But, i hate the al-qaeda, and the war mongering arabs too.

what needs to be realized is that that these people represent a small minority of the larger population, and you simply can't condemn all the people for the actions of a few.

quote:

Originally posted by JohnSmith what needs to be realized is that that these people represent a small minority of the larger population, and you simply can't condemn all the people for the actions of a few.

Exact thing goes for media. Unfortunately, it appears what people read, hear and see, is what they believe to be true. Surely foreigners have learned by now, that no media source, will ever represent the entire country as a whole, its just impossible.

To think we are completely 100% supportive of every action this country does, supportive of every piece of media printed out, supportive of every news cast, and so on, is just absurd.

Even I don't recommend relying fully on our media to understand our points of views. Just understand, there are plenty of media sources being printed etc. that we don't back or represent at all.

The following story might explain a little bit on the individuals here in America favor war:

War Resisters

Funny how the Gallup poll is used and manipulated in so many ways by certain warmongering idiots. I wonder why the majority of the educated disaproves of war? Strange, isin't it?

quote:

Exact thing goes for media. Unfortunately, it appears what people read, hear and see, is what they believe to be true. Surely foreigners have learned by now, that no media source, will ever represent the entire country as a whole, its just impossible.

Very True.

I try to get my information from as many places as possible, including american, canadian, british, and australian news networks.

Probably the best place to get information (if you are looking for altneratives to what is on the TV) is al-jazeera. Unfortunately, i don't speak arabic, so it's tough, but there are translation services available.

Re: why people hate america...

Ok this thread is full of things that make me upset, and i'll tell you why: NOBODY is correct on anything here... everyone is going based on what they've seen on TV or read somewhere (or just simple all-out patriotism).... has anyone been to the desert? anyone talked to an Iraqi? I have, and its nothing like everyone sees on TV....

Lets start with this article mr. poopyhead posted:

quote:

Originally posted by mr. poopyhead letters to time magazine, octover 14, 2002: "It is revealing that most of the Lackawanna Six, accused of being al-Qaeda members, are unemployed underachievers whose loyalty to their country is ambiguous at best, given their religious extremism. Like these disaffected alleged terrorists, many people who live in the Arab world have been on the unemployment line for years. Arab jealousy of Western success and power is the root of the recent terrorism. RICHARD L. JOHNSON College Station, Texas"

Mr. Johnson is correct and wrong at the same time. Yes poverty is a problem in Iraq, but its *not* the reason they have issues with us. As petty as this may sound to you, the *main* reason the middle east has problems with us is for messing around in their territory, for having locations (i.e. bases) on their "holy ground".... (and in iraq's case there is also a little bit of vengeful attitude for how we got involved and terminated their crusade 10 years ago).... but for the most part its for us occupying several places in Saudi and Kuwait.... This was the EXACT problem that bin Laden had with us...

Now, calling americans (or even some) racist b/c of that statement Mr. Johnson made is not even necessarily true! When the black people were slaves, and the oppresive white man said "i bet he just wants to be free"... is that being racist? slavery is racist, but that comment isn't... that comment, (however egocentric and self-centered it may sound), is TRUE! sometimes the truth hurts... but this has NOTHING to do with what is at hand, i don't see how racism got thrown into this... has NOTHING to do with this.

American's don't hate all arabs (as many like to pander us out to be...)... but you can't forget that after 9-11, arab muslims around the country everywhere (random locations) were being found to be involved in the same terrorist group of activity. Can you fault an american of being nervous around an arab muslim at that point? Its human nature to have this reaction.... its a morality catch-22... you want to treat everyone equal, but how do you know this guy is a US-supporter or a terrorist? you simply don't know. and unfortunately, (read: i say UNFORTUNATELY) this results in public reactions as far as treatment of arabs, hiring/firing of arabs, and service (even in public establishments).... its very unfortunate but you have to put yourself in the same situation. ANYONE would do this (and don't say you wouldn't b/c you haven't been there!)

One last thing i am sick of hearing, is that the "American war machine" kills innocent people.... this is anti-american propaganda brewed-up by these organizations that (for the life of me i can't figure out why) have some serious animosity towards the US.... probably b/c of some political decision our government made awhile back.... all these "innocent civilians" you read about getting "slaughtered" in afghanistan.... this was not the case! I am sure a couple of people got clipped along the way, but this happens when you are fighting a war on their land. First off, that article that was posted saying how americans locked 60-something taliban in a school and bombed them is a false report - keep in mind, the NORTHERN ALLIANCE did most of the fighting - we simply gathered intelligence. We only had one combat controller squadron out there! The Northern Alliance are an interesting group of people.... they absolutely HATE the taliban (more than we do i believe, and it probably has to do with years of oppression), and they were doing VERY inhumane acts towards POWs and the enemy... things that we would NEVER do. But for some reason, the US gets labeled as having performed these acts.

...And i'd like to reference back to what i told you guys in my last post about war... when you see a female on the street with groceries (or what have you), and she pulls a gun on you and you have to shoot her, its NOT an "innocent civilian"...... many people fail to see that. We do NOT arm our civilians and ask them to shoot anyone that comes here dressed in camouflage... THEY do. Again i stress you never know who is a TRUE innocent civilian and who is actually Taliban.... only the actually military of theirs wears uniforms, the militia was all civilian clothes!

As far as the US bombings, they did occur, but only on Taliban and Al-Qaeda bases... where they train for, harbor, and plan death missions and house terrorists.... as well as stock weapons depots. They dont play fair though... instead of keeping their few missles and weapons in the silos and warehouses (like we do), they actually PUT their munitions in their mosques and hospitals... why? 2 reasons - THEY know we don't bomb innocent people (but the rest of the world hasn't figured that out yet).... and 2) they THINK that we won't hit there.... well they were wrong. Holy place or not, a Mosque that is holding a couple of land-to-air missles and enough rifles to fit an army IS a threat.... and sacriligious to boot. What do you think americans would say/do if we started keeping Nukes in our churches? They called our bluff on it and we weren't bluffing. And they were dumbfounded we got them on it, unfortunately the press just hears that we bombed a mosque and a hospital (and the schoolhouse which the northern alliance can take credit for).... so what do they say "Hundreds of innocent people killed today, due to poor US-preparation..." etc etc.... why does the press say that? because the world LOVES to hear about the US fucking up... i don't know why... but if the papers wrote "US strategically bombed mosque that was really a weapons depot", no one would care.

Keep in mind, reporters do well based on public reaction - their job is to report whatever will get attention, ratings, sell subscriptions, whatever... unfortunately, the truth does not always (almost never, actually) get reported.

Well, long post i know, but hey many of you do not know how it really is and are speaking your minds based solely on mindless patriotism or what you read by some schmuck somewhere (like Mr. Johnson), who's probably never even left our shores. Thats who i hate: propaganda spewers.

-ABT-

quote:

else why would they strike at economic targets.

because theyre jelous?! hahahahaha no.

its about the value of the targets to the americans, if i was old bin laden and had a choice between wiping out the whitehouse and the twin towers, i know which one id do, it may sound twisted, but its just common sense.

great post ABTsportsline!
i was going to say about half of what you said on there but you went and doubled it. the part about the letter was nice and i especially wanted to say what you said about "innocent civilians" that died in afgan. how can you differentiate a civilian from a taliban member when the taliban doesnt wear any military uniform.... and your other examples... and also what i say time and time agian, we are at a higher moral ground because, unlike the terrorist, we do not INTENTANIALY target the civilian population.

i dont understand all this anti-american sentiments around the world, it just doesnt make any logical sense. the stem of the problem is, and lets face the truth, the extreme islamic view of the western values (freedom, secularism... etc). the result of this is terrorism. and furthermore, in my opinion, even if america did not have military bases in the 'holy land' (saudi and kuwaiti as ABT said, as well as more in the region) there would still be acts of terrorism agianst the free world by those religious fanatics. now excuse me for being all gun-ho but do you actually want to bring your selves down to a level of actually negotating with a terrorist, how about a nice roundtable discussion with ossama? you cant, there is no other way to deal with a terrorist. instead you go out and put forth a strong hand say "this is wrong" and deal with the terrorist where you can until the threat is non-exsistant. since iraq is a serious threat, they are on the scope as well. whats so hard to see in all of this?

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