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-- can people change or are they pretty much the same throughout their lives?
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STFU. (or else i give examples).

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I would have thought they fall under "Thoughts, attitudes and beliefs". And do you really think your desires never change? I would have thought that's one of the most malleable parts of our personality. My desires as a 7 year old kid aren't going to be the same as a 17 year old, a 37 year old and a 77 year old.

Hmm, I dunno about that. I'm not talking about superficial desires. I think we know what we want from life (spiritually, emotionally) at a very young age. We may not be able to articulate it that early on, and perhaps our brains aren't intellectually ready to act upon it - but I think it is definitely always there, and no I don't think it changes.

I guess this whole discussion depends on your beliefs about what makes us human, what consciousness is and if we have souls, and how to quantify the phenomenon.

It's very easy to break humans down through psychology, neuroscience, etc. and come up with an answer. But isn't that too easy? And a little unromantic? Pffft.

And a little incomplete.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson It's very easy to break humans down through psychology, neuroscience, etc. and come up with an answer. But isn't that too easy? And a little unromantic? Pffft.

That was nice





















But what's with the cyclic bullshit?

One affects the other, which affects the other, and so on. Are you looking to insult me for my opinion? I thought we were all having a pretty decent, non-dickheadish discussion for once.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson Are you looking to insult me for my opinion?

Not me. I'm looking to insult you cos you black.

ONLY FROM THE WAIST DOWN DURHURRHURRR

Well, that proves my point in the other thread.

Which one? Things you don't eat anymore?

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson One affects the other, which affects the other, and so on. Are you looking to insult me for my opinion? I thought we were all having a pretty decent, non-dickheadish discussion for once.

I actually was touched by your earlier statement on psychoanalysis, I feel the same way. To be fair, that crass, 3 word answer was dickish.

Oh, lol.

It's tautological to grasp for what makes any one of us "essentially" ourselves. Sure, Nature (big N) plays a role in our individuality, but Nurture is far more quantifiable, given sufficient definition.

We are all products of our environment; upend your environment and you will have changed just what you have become. It's largely why I think people harbour the 'people don't really change' notion: people often settle for this or for that, in one place and for significant portions of their lives struggle to maintain a sort of homeostatic existence amid their relative liquidity to the status quo. Obviously this is reinforced as people age- it's nearly a biological inevitability- and the platitudes of youth gestate such a fear of the senescent and inert, we likewise manufacture an existentialism derived from the impossible perception of the impending moment we will no longer be who we are now. But it's just as useless a phobia as a wish if you die 5 miles from where you were born.

See how boring and unromantic that is? Too easy Hal.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson Hmm, I dunno about that. I'm not talking about superficial desires. I think we know what we want from life (spiritually, emotionally) at a very young age. We may not be able to articulate it that early on, and perhaps our brains aren't intellectually ready to act upon it - but I think it is definitely always there, and no I don't think it changes.

If you fulfilled your lifelong spiritual or emotional desire, would that not fundamentally change you, because it would remove the motivation for all your actions up to that point?

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson Oh, lol.

Going monosyllabic on me eh?


Hmph.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J If you fulfilled your lifelong spiritual or emotional desire, would that not fundamentally change you, because it would remove the motivation for all your actions up to that point?

Well isn't that exactly what all that zen crap is about? Gratitude, living in the present and all that? Why does motivation cease to exist just because one has attained something? What about the motivation to maintain that state? Regardless, I still don't think that changes a person.

quote:

Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On We are all products of our environment; upend your environment and you will have changed just what you have become. It's largely why I think people harbour the 'people don't really change' notion: people often settle for this or for that, in one place and for significant portions of their lives struggle to maintain a sort of homeostatic existence amid their relative liquidity to the status quo. Obviously this is reinforced as people age- it's nearly a biological inevitability- and the platitudes of youth gestate such a fear of the senescent and inert, we likewise manufacture an existentialism derived from the impossible perception of the impending moment we will no longer be who we are now. But it's just as useless a phobia as a wish if you die 5 miles from where you were born.

Are you helping me to realize that I am a Gamemaster?

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson See how boring and unromantic that is? Too easy Hal.

It's not boring. I'm saying that the only way to change who you are is to completely do away with, or bridge a great distance from, whatever variables you have allowed to define you. Maybe it's as simple as leaving a toxic relationship, or as dramatic as jumping into a volcano. But if those variables persist in your life, 'change' is a Sisyphean endeavour.

The idea that we are just some turgid receptacle for our inner souls or whatever is as conventional as could be. The notion that any one of us is in touch with our spiritual desires in any protracted sense is trite, and really devalues how disposable this existence is.

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Originally posted by Syntonic Are you helping me to realize that I am a Gamemaster?

I love how it's impossible to discern that she's not in fact saying 'gay master' unless you know the track.

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Originally posted by Halcyon+On+On It's not boring. I'm saying that the only way to change who you are is to completely do away with, or bridge a great distance from, whatever variables you have allowed to define you. Maybe it's as simple as leaving a toxic relationship, or as dramatic as jumping into a volcano. But if those variables persist in your life, 'change' is a Sisyphean endeavour.

I agree.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson I think of change more like peeling back and removing the layers of bullshit that have built up over the years, and unlearning all the crap that hides our true nature.

And yes, it is boring.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson Why does motivation cease to exist just because one has attained something? What about the motivation to maintain that state?

This is all very abstract. Not everything needs maintaining once achieved.

I guess it could be boring to someone who has embarked on some spiritual odyssey wherein they've issued themselves carte blanche to mythologize their own existence. But I think everyone would be much better off if they realized that we ARE our bodies. This is it. You won't get a do-over in the dirt.

So curate the most fertile time you can manage, and leave the spirituality to the people who are worried about their personal extinction.

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