TranceAddict Forums (www.tranceaddict.com/forums)
- Music Discussion
-- Why Big Room "House" Music Sucks
Pages (3): « 1 [2] 3 »

Well vocals have always been used throughout trance...one of the most famous vocal trance tunes, Taylor - Anomaly (Calling Your Name) was released way back in 95...
I can see some people may be frustrated with "anthem trance" as a whole because before then trance never really had a defining sound. Comparing tracks from 1992 to 1995 to 1997 to 1999 etc there's a huge range of styles and sounds used, all under the simple umbrella label "trance." The supersaw anthems were the first thing to really catch and become somewhat of a defining thing for the genre, eventually becoming a cliche in itself. Seems there aren't many trance songs produced from 2003 onward that doesn't have some melodramatic supersaw arpeggio, so for that, I can see why someone would hold contempt for the genre as a whole, because it virtually erased all creativity for many trance producers and DJs. But the earlier stuff in the genre, such as the songs in the video, were genuine and made people move. Let's not forget that ultimately trance is dance music afterall...a fact that sadly seems lost among newer artists.

Trance should be divided into two categories: Trance and Hard Trance. All these other prefixes are nonsensical and only confuse people. Keep it simple.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred Trance should be divided into two categories: Trance and Hard Trance. All these other prefixes are nonsensical and only confuse people. Keep it simple.

Agreed, and lol. Once you divide something up, it becomes fragmented and unrecognizable...a lesser form.

quote:

Originally posted by kosmotika Well vocals have always been used throughout trance...one of the most famous vocal trance tunes, Taylor - Anomaly (Calling Your Name) was released way back in 95...

Yes but it was cheese back then as well. Just because it was released 20 years ago doesn't make it less so. Don't get me wrong I have enjoyed my share of that stuff over the years but the introduction of singing vocals into trance(not just the use of movie samples and such) have always been with the intent of getting a much broader appeal such as chart success, breaking into manistream etc

I'm not saying any of this is necessarily wrong, just that I don't think the intent and purposes of those tracks differ that much from today's EDM productions. And I definitely don't think they have any more integrity.

Just as today, they used all the genre conventions of the time to appeal to a market as large as possible

I can't understand why you guys are complaining about... VOCAL. Only a few cheesy anthem tracks played in this shitty video are vocal (the great majority are just cheesy fluffy stuff). Also, at least he don't played any gouryella track.

quote:

Originally posted by kosmotika But the earlier stuff in the genre, such as the songs in the video, were genuine and made people move.

If I skip randomly through that video I can barely even distinguish from the footage which era is which. It's all huge cavernous arenas full of idiots holding their arms in the air whilst some mega-DJ stands in front of huge visuals. This isn't people "moving". This isn't a dark sweaty club full of people dancing with each other and not even paying attention to the DJ, wherever he is. These ridiculous trance arena gigs were derided even at the time for being circus shows, and they are very obviously the template for the modern "EDM" experience. Cry your eyes out about mean, snobby hipsters all you want, this video is a complete joke.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred That is probably true, but that's why it actually makes for a good comparison. The pop Trance of yesteryear will probably be far more memorable than the pop EDM of today. Maybe not. Maybe it's partly nostalgia, again, and years from now the kids of today will have nostalgia for the Dubstep drop. We'll see.

It's 100% nostalgia. The only people who even remember pop trance of yesteryear are us.

There has always been a pop continent of dance music, and no, it wasn't necessarily the Dutch trance machine that people were deriding as pop dance at the time. I'm talking about acts like iiO, 4 Strings, Ian Van Dahl, Kaskade, etc; people who produced music for the sole purpose of radio airtime and popular consumption.

A trance banger like "Suburban Train"- for all its bombast- really isn't pop at all, and neither was most of the other stuff Tiesto and company were playing ten years ago. Ten minute runtimes and two minute breakdowns aren't very radio friendly musical features.

That's why radio edits exist. Suburban Train had a 3:25 edit and reached #22 in the UK single charts.

Okay, well, in America even the most successful trance cuts would just languish in the 'Electronica' section at Tower Records.

quote:

Originally posted by Johan (DJ Irish) Yes but it was cheese back then as well. Just because it was released 20 years ago doesn't make it less so. Don't get me wrong I have enjoyed my share of that stuff over the years but the introduction of singing vocals into trance(not just the use of movie samples and such) have always been with the intent of getting a much broader appeal such as chart success, breaking into manistream etc I'm not saying any of this is necessarily wrong, just that I don't think the intent and purposes of those tracks differ that much from today's EDM productions. And I definitely don't think they have any more integrity. Just as today, they used all the genre conventions of the time to appeal to a market as large as possible

Well, sure you have a point...I guess I separate commercial and cheese. Kate Ryan's "Scream For More" is a track I enjoy, it's a genuine attempt to be a good vocal trance tune and in my opinion is fairly enjoyable...then I listen to something like Dee Dee or Milk Inc with all those corny lyrics and such and it just reeks of blatant consumerism (though these acts did generate a fair amount of good remixes!)

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J If I skip randomly through that video I can barely even distinguish from the footage which era is which. It's all huge cavernous arenas full of idiots holding their arms in the air whilst some mega-DJ stands in front of huge visuals. This isn't people "moving". This isn't a dark sweaty club full of people dancing with each other and not even paying attention to the DJ, wherever he is. These ridiculous trance arena gigs were derided even at the time for being circus shows, and they are very obviously the template for the modern "EDM" experience. Cry your eyes out about mean, snobby hipsters all you want, this video is a complete joke.

It's up close when you can really tell; for example during the video of Ferry Corsten, when it goes close to the crowd you'll see folks absolutely losing their shit. Steve Aoki's video, you've got people more or less standing with their hands in the air or doing a little bounce in place. Raves with DJs on a front stage were nothing new here, they'd always been a thing in major dance events...Mayday, Nature One, Dance Valley, etc the DJ was always up front on a big stage with bright flashing lights. For big events this has always been the way, it just wasn't an extremely common thing for the DJs to stand posing like Jesus with smug grins while doing heart hands and dragging all the attention to themselves yet.

quote:

Originally posted by kosmotika Raves with DJs on a front stage were nothing new here, they'd always been a thing in major dance events...Mayday, Nature One, Dance Valley, etc the DJ was always up front on a big stage with bright flashing lights.

And those were always the most commercialised and watered down events. There's nothing more "genuine" about those commercial mega raves than modern EDM shows and festivals.

quote:

Originally posted by kosmotika It's up close when you can really tell; for example during the video of Ferry Corsten, when it goes close to the crowd you'll see folks absolutely losing their shit. Steve Aoki's video, you've got people more or less standing with their hands in the air or doing a little bounce in place....it just wasn't an extremely common thing for the DJs to stand posing like Jesus with smug grins while doing heart hands and dragging all the attention to themselves yet.

Yup.

Not to say that there aren't many similarities in these big rave events, but in the Ferry Corsten bit you can see people generally lost in the music and in their own world, just enjoying themselves, "raving." Their attention is certainly not directed at the DJ, nor is the latter trying to bring any attention to himself.

People used to bring glow sticks to raves, now they bring big posters of "Fuck me, Axwell!" and their country flags. There's definitely a different vibe.

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred Yup. Not to say that there aren't many similarities in these big rave events, but in the Ferry Corsten bit you can see people generally lost in the music and in their own world, just enjoying themselves, "raving." Their attention is certainly not directed at the DJ, nor is the latter trying to bring any attention to himself. People used to bring glow sticks to raves, now they bring big posters of "Fuck me, Axwell!" and their country flags. There's definitely a different vibe.

Oh, when was the last time you attended a mainstream festival?

quote:

Originally posted by Vernon Wanderer Oh, when was the last time you attended a mainstream festival?

quote:

Originally posted by AlphaStarred Not to say that there aren't many similarities in these big rave events

quote:

Originally posted by Johan (DJ Irish) Yes but it was cheese back then as well. Just because it was released 20 years ago doesn't make it less so. Don't get me wrong I have enjoyed my share of that stuff over the years but the introduction of singing vocals into trance(not just the use of movie samples and such) have always been with the intent of getting a much broader appeal such as chart success, breaking into mainstream etc

I agree with the breaking into mainstream part, but on the other hand did KLF, Dance2Trance, The Mackenzie and Jam&Spoon use vocals from the beginning before they made trance.
At the time those tracks even didn't sound commercial to me for a second.

quote:

Originally posted by kosmotika Well, sure you have a point...I guess I separate commercial and cheese. Kate Ryan's "Scream For More" is a track I enjoy, it's a genuine attempt to be a good vocal trance tune and in my opinion is fairly enjoyable...then I listen to something like Dee Dee or Milk Inc with all those corny lyrics and such and it just reeks of blatant consumerism (though these acts did generate a fair amount of good remixes!)

It's perfectly okay to enjoy cheese. It's not okay to call cheese something else just because you like it.

quote:

Originally posted by Redd It's perfectly okay to enjoy cheese. It's not okay to call cheese something else just because you like it.

This.

The French don't attempt to hide it:



"Underground" cheese.

I hate coming across as pretentious with music taste because for the most part music taste is a result of what you grew up with. It can change, but I don't think it can change dramatically. Your taste expands and you appreciate new styles instead of hating the older ones.
--
Now, back on topic: I'm not a fan of big room. For me, dance music should have interesting production. It would be nice for it to be melodic, but it's not required at all. Big room was cool...5 years ago. Now it's overdone and played out. There's no build-up to the songs and they're very predictable. The songs have a range of 5 notes. It focuses way too much on a drop that sounds very similar to the next one you'll hear. I've said in the past that there is no such thing as bad music because taste is subjective, but songs can be considered bad if the producer is more focused on things outside of the music. A lot of pop songs that people consider bad have good/great production IMO. If I listen to big room, I don't mind it; there's just a lot better.

I don't think about being pretentious at all. I personally think if we just get honest with ourselves and see things quite clearly, you can't just turn a blind eye to the current EDM scene and say that our cheese of the past (or your past), is the same as the cheese now.

You know what rock music listeners say? I've never seen a fucking Led Zeppelin fan who grew up in the 60s say that music back in his day was cheesy as it is today in My Chemical Romance.

Current EDM is cheesy and if you think 1999 was cheesy, then today is cheesy by FAR.

I mean sure today we have Gangnam Style and Harlem Shake because of the electro house movement, but seriously back in our day we had "I like to move it move it" or the Macarena.

When I meet the average EDM listener in America most of them aren't even musically inspired. They all got into EDM because they discovered laptop DJing and because here in the states hip hop is becoming obsolete and milked as shit so they needed a new trend for other sheep to follow. The average American here is just in it for the popularity.

Did you fucking know that in 2007-2008 I was a high school 16-17 year old trying to introduce rave concerts or EDM to people and they hella judged me and said I was bad for introducing them to drug culture? I gave a guy an E pill at my own house party and he was so square and stuck up he thought it was cool to act above it all and throw the pill on the floor and walk out of my house with a disrespectful attitude.

Now 4 years later I see the same asshole going to raves or EDM concerts cuz all of a sudden all the cool kids are doing it and he isn't cool anymore if he throws someone else's good E on the floor. Especially when raves are so massive than ever before, he wants to just fit in with everybody.

Like I said most people are just in it for the popularity not for the true, darker and underground part of electronica.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Pluviose I don't think about being pretentious at all.

You're one of the most pretentious people on this forum. You are ridiculously self-congratulatory about how much better you are than all your peers for the music you listen to. Go into any specialist dance music record shop and start telling them about how dark and psychedelic the Tiesto remix of Flesh is and you'll get laughed out of the building. You and Kosmotika are kids playing at being music snobs. It's fucking embarrassing.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Pluviose I don't think about being pretentious at all. I personally think if we just get honest with ourselves and see things quite clearly, you can't just turn a blind eye to the current EDM scene and say that our cheese of the past (or your past), is the same as the cheese now. You know what rock music listeners say? I've never seen a fucking Led Zeppelin fan who grew up in the 60s say that music back in his day was cheesy as it is today in My Chemical Romance. Current EDM is cheesy and if you think 1999 was cheesy, then today is cheesy by FAR. I mean sure today we have Gangnam Style and Harlem Shake because of the electro house movement, but seriously back in our day we had "I like to move it move it" or the Macarena. When I meet the average EDM listener in America most of them aren't even musically inspired. They all got into EDM because they discovered laptop DJing and because here in the states hip hop is becoming obsolete and milked as shit so they needed a new trend for other sheep to follow. The average American here is just in it for the popularity. Did you fucking know that in 2007-2008 I was a high school 16-17 year old trying to introduce rave concerts or EDM to people and they hella judged me and said I was bad for introducing them to drug culture? I gave a guy an E pill at my own house party and he was so square and stuck up he thought it was cool to act above it all and throw the pill on the floor and walk out of my house with a disrespectful attitude. Now 4 years later I see the same asshole going to raves or EDM concerts cuz all of a sudden all the cool kids are doing it and he isn't cool anymore if he throws someone else's good E on the floor. Especially when raves are so massive than ever before, he wants to just fit in with everybody. Like I said most people are just in it for the popularity not for the true, darker and underground part of electronica.

I was talking more about the people who legitimately love the big room genre because they exist, not douchebags who love to fit in. I�m really sorry about those people though; that's so ignorant. Did you tell them that there are plenty of drug free dance musio lovers? (A bit off-topic but I'm an alcoholic and I think dance music has actually helped me stay clean)

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You're one of the most pretentious people on this forum. You are ridiculously self-congratulatory about how much better you are than all your peers for the music you listen to. Go into any specialist dance music record shop and start telling them about how dark and psychedelic the Tiesto remix of Flesh is and you'll get laughed out of the building. You and Kosmotika are kids playing at being music snobs. It's fucking embarrassing.

We don't have many record shops here, this isn't Europe. I have however talked to all sorts of DJs through the last few years though and it appears to me that none of them have ever even listened to EDM of anything prior to 2008. The average "raver" only recently got into EDM since late '09 and '10. I don't get how they can say things like "oh yeah Metallica, Led Zeppelin, Guns N Roses, and Motley Crue were the real rockers! New rock sucks!" and then you get the same guys saying "Real hip hop is nothing without Tupac, BiGGie, Digital Underground, or any of the hip hop OGs."

but when it comes to EDM, they act like this is the most progressed evolution of electronica. you get assholes saying Trance, ambient, prog-psy, they're saying that what we listen to is all inferior just because the DJs aren't playing it in the mainstream, it must mean we are somewhat inferior hipsters.

I personally will not allow people to insult us like that. Maybe you're better at handling it 'J, but not me. I get pissed when people talk shit and know nothing about it. Maybe it's just my Californian stubborness kicking in. There really is beautiful music in the EDM world, and several popular house DJs themselves have admitted that the music they're playing is sh*t but the masses don't even know it.

The interviews don't lie, man. If the DJs, who are the current faces of the EDM scene (at least in America) are saying the music that they are putting out isn't that good, then that pretty much affirms the whole conversation we have here that the music that is put out in the limelight sucks. Now, whether I'm pretentious or not, 'J, you KNOW it's true that the music put out today sucks. I love the new music you share, you have good taste.

The difference between me and you is you just wanna chill and snip all that garbage out of your life. For me, it's in my face every god damn day wherever I go. The radio, the barber shop, the coffee shop, my work place, or the mall. It gets annoying, so I'm just more vocal and actively resistant about this. but I'm not pretentious. 'J if you had someone poking you constantly every single everywhere you go you're eventually gonna want punch the person or people back for being annoying, or do something about it.

quote:

Originally posted by Dj Pluviose I don't think about being pretentious at all. I personally think if we just get honest with ourselves and see things quite clearly, you can't just turn a blind eye to the current EDM scene and say that our cheese of the past (or your past), is the same as the cheese now. You know what rock music listeners say? I've never seen a fucking Led Zeppelin fan who grew up in the 60s say that music back in his day was cheesy as it is today in My Chemical Romance. Current EDM is cheesy and if you think 1999 was cheesy, then today is cheesy by FAR. I mean sure today we have Gangnam Style and Harlem Shake because of the electro house movement, but seriously back in our day we had "I like to move it move it" or the Macarena. When I meet the average EDM listener in America most of them aren't even musically inspired. They all got into EDM because they discovered laptop DJing and because here in the states hip hop is becoming obsolete and milked as shit so they needed a new trend for other sheep to follow. The average American here is just in it for the popularity. Did you fucking know that in 2007-2008 I was a high school 16-17 year old trying to introduce rave concerts or EDM to people and they hella judged me and said I was bad for introducing them to drug culture? I gave a guy an E pill at my own house party and he was so square and stuck up he thought it was cool to act above it all and throw the pill on the floor and walk out of my house with a disrespectful attitude. Now 4 years later I see the same asshole going to raves or EDM concerts cuz all of a sudden all the cool kids are doing it and he isn't cool anymore if he throws someone else's good E on the floor. Especially when raves are so massive than ever before, he wants to just fit in with everybody. Like I said most people are just in it for the popularity not for the true, darker and underground part of electronica.

I've got to fault you on that drug stuff mate, that's destructive to the rave scene on the whole. Maybe it's one of the stereotypes that a raver has to be constantly popping pills and giving out shitty bead bracelets, but fact is we did have some booming trance clubs in the USA in the late 90s / early 2000s and just about all of them got closed down because junkies were dropping dead left and right. So really, pillheads killed the rave scene pretty quick in America. To me, being a raver is all about the music...if a song doesn't make you move by just listening to it, it's either not a good song or you're just not that into the music to begin with. I hate those idiots that wander around "H-hey have...have you seen molly..." with a dead look in their eye not even giving a shit about what's being played through the speakers, absolutely hate em. I'm not saying drug culture hasn't always been a part of electronic music (or any music for that matter) but it's certainly not what being a raver is about. It's about the music man, nothing else matters if you aren't about that. The reason those people scoffed at you isn't because the music you listen to is bad or that they were closed to ever hearing it, but because you perpetuated a negative stereotype of what a raver is. There's a lot of people, younger than me even (keep in mind I'm 22) who didn't give me the same reactions as the people you've described, and they were open to listening to (and often enjoying) older trance because I just say "Hey, here's the music I'm into, have a listen." I don't go around trying to give people drugs. You don't need to do certain things or look a certain way just because of a stereotype commonly associated with the kind of music you like, yknow?

Powered by: vBulletin
Copyright © 2000-2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.