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-- 25 keys keyboard, and more importantly, a motor vehicle transmission debate
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quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik The kid lives for Minecraft

Yep, my two are the same.

I was considering buying them a little 25 key casio keyboard each to mess about with but by the sounds of things I'll burn in hell for it

quote:

Originally posted by Andy28 Yep, my two are the same. I was considering buying them a little 25 key casio keyboard each to mess about with but by the sounds of things I'll burn in hell for it

My message is being lost in the strawman arguments here. As I've repeatedly stated, there is nothing wrong with using a 25-key controller and they have many advantages. Hell, I've owned many of them myself and I currently have a little 32-key controller for travel/laptop use. I really don't give a shit what the OP does with his money, but his reasoning is completely flawed IMO and doesn't hold water when you consider that he needs to learn the notes whether he's using a physical controller or a virtual one in a piano roll. Worst-case scenario, you buy a bigger keyboard to learn on and put a little piece of tape on each C-note for a few days/weeks until you don't need it anymore. Or not, whatever. Anyway, my point is abundantly made and ya'll can disagree or hate me for it. And, as mentioned, this discussion is probably all for naught, since the OP seems to be trolling us anyway. Oh well, I've had my fun. I'm out.

This thread is all kinds of bizarre.

counting to 12 is um, understanding the decimal system and being savy to add one
. If music theory is after that ....

People need to shut up about music theory. I have yet to ever hear any argument concer ing it from so,some that actually knew any. It's just another excuse for people to blame why they suck or why others suck.

Dude like sure, you got a sick wobble but if you don't know your musi theory, you won't be able to hit the drop with the same 3 chords everyone else uses and you know sounds good but can't tell it's the same because tus ne starts on a black key.

Why not have a grand piano in front. What producer doesn't bust out some Liszt between makin a beat in5 minutes and really needs that action and effective half peddling. All those non pro semi weighted standard non Bosendorfer 88 keys keyboards.

Speaking of keyboards, anyone know where I can get a super minimal 49 key with only pitch bend, mod wheel, and octave up/down that has semi weighted keys? Looking for a 49 key thats easier to fit on my desk, not happy with only having 25 keys for a while now.

Closest I can find is the Nektar ones but they don't have semi weighted keys.

Aftertouch would be nice too, but it seems like semi weighted + aftertouch is only for big fully featured keyboards.

M-audio Keystation 49?

quote:

Originally posted by djnitride Aftertouch would be nice too, but it seems like semi weighted + aftertouch is only for big fully featured keyboards.

I�ve had a Novation Remote 25 SL since 2007. Has all of the above.

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken roland a-49?

+1

quote:

Originally posted by Zak McKracken roland a-49?

Looks nice, not sure I am even wanting semi weighted anymore as long as it has a good feel to it.

Only downside to that one looks like no dedicated modwheel.

quote:

Originally posted by djnitride Only downside to that one looks like no dedicated modwheel.

Yeah, that's one thing I've always hated about Roland products. Those combo pitch/mod sticks are a PITA, but many people prefer them.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Yeah, that's one thing I've always hated about Roland products. Those combo pitch/mod sticks are a PITA, but many people prefer them.

Honestly I just want a nice set of keys to play that fit on my desk, for more complex modulation stuff I always have the CC knobs and the XY controls on my iPad with Lemur.

I suppose though that the disadvantage is not being able to have a separate mod / pitch bend while playing on the same device.

Yeah, I can see where people would prefer them, but I just can't get used to them. Having the pitch wheel bend left/right to go lower/higher would seemingly be more intuitive, since that's how the keyboard is oriented, but it just feels wrong to me. Besides, I always ending recording a little bit of pitch bend data when I'm trying to play and record some mod wheel data (and vice-versa), particularly with Novation's flimsy-ass joysticks. Roland's combo mod/pitch stick isn't quite as bad, though.

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Yup, learning to navigate anything more than 25 keys requires the same motor skills as operating a motor vehicle. And, since driver's education can take years for a guy like you, there's no telling how much longer learning to count past 25 might take you.

you're an american, that means you drive an automatic like everyone else in that country.

in this country, automatics are for disabled people.

rubez' resume':

- can operate manual transmission
- can't operate 25-key MIDI controller
- thinks Americans are disabled

That logic should get you far in life.

it's CV, and i don't think american's are disabled. just stupid and lazy

this post is all about how i could operate a 25-key keyboard in a very short space of time, despite having zero prior knowledge and music theory... quite how you got the opposite of that i don't know? that'll be the famous 'murican stupidity on display.

AT cars have their own special licence over here - you are restricted to driving only crappy automatics. only full driving licence holders are allowed to drive real cars.

if you can't drive a MT, you are on par with someone who drives dodgems, or golf buggies... or those obesity vehicles american's use instead of walking

quote:

Originally posted by rubez just stupid and lazy

Looked in the mirror lately? This is the idea I get after reading pretty much all of your posts and it has nothing to do with which side of the Atlantic you are on...

quote:

Originally posted by rubez it's CV, and i don't think american's are disabled. just stupid and lazy this post is all about how i could operate a 25-key keyboard in a very short space of time, despite having zero prior knowledge and music theory... quite how you got the opposite of that i don't know? that'll be the famous 'murican stupidity on display. AT cars have their own special licence over here - you are restricted to driving only crappy automatics. only full driving licence holders are allowed to drive real cars. if you can't drive a MT, you are on par with someone who drives dodgems, or golf buggies... or those obesity vehicles american's use instead of walking

What are you talking about?

There's one driver's license here whether you automatic or manual. If I go back to the UK with my California License, I can drive either manual or auto.

It's only the other way round here. If you only have a UK auto license, the you can only get insured for a Auto car in the USA.

Why are the majority of cars auto here? two reasons: first, most road trip are long, it's not like the Uk where you're never more than 72 miles from the sea. I can drive 6 hours and not even get close to leaving my cali. You drive for 6 hours from lands end, and you're somewhere in the north see lo.

90% of most commutes are done at the same speed, and big wide roads, not pre-roman higgledy piggledy little alleyways like back home. No need for manual. The rest of the time you're in bumper to bumper traffic and again, no need for manual.

I like my sports cars in Manual for thrashing in the Swiss Alps, and my city car an auto. Manual is also a dying breed. Electric and paddle shift are making them completely obsolete.

Why the fuck is this thread about cars now? What the hell is wrong with all of you?

if you can drive for 6 hours straight, presumably in the same gear, why do you need automatic?! makes no sense.

and the uk has just as much traffic here (squashed prehistoric island) and we manage manual in stop-start traffic no bother.

manuals are used in most countries, they are not a dying breed - they are the vast majority of cars manufactured. and paddle shifts are manuals, you are revealing your ignorance there.

automatics give inferior performance, inferior control over the car and worse fuel economy. what decent performance car doesn't give you control over the gears?

american cars are well known for their abysmal handling, no wonder you all don't enjoy driving... just stick it in "drive" and autopilot to your destination

quote:

Originally posted by cryophonik Trust me, he's already a prodigy in not making music.

I had to read that about six times to actually realise what you said.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez

Oh dear god, where to begin. It's like you think two bullshits make a truth,

quote:

Originally posted by rubez if you can drive for 6 hours straight, presumably in the same gear, why do you need automatic?! makes no sense.

Why would you need a manual? for those opening 10 minutes of the drive until you get on the freeway/motorway? Not making sense....

quote:

Originally posted by rubez and the uk has just as much traffic here (squashed prehistoric island) and we manage manual in stop-start traffic no bother.

Dude, until you've been on the 405 or 5 freeway in rush hour traffic you've never even witness what traffic is. 7 lanes IN EACH DIRECTION, all bumper to bumper for 3 hours straight. An hour sitting in on a two way street on the outskirts of glasgow while the farmer moves his cows doesn't really register.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez manuals are used in most countries, they are not a dying breed - they are the vast majority of cars manufactured. and paddle shifts are manuals, you are revealing your ignorance there.

Now here's where you really get it wrong: Less than 3.9% of cars made this year were manual and it's been decreasing every year for the last 30 years. Virtually dead is a better way to put it.

next, paddle gears use an automatic clutch and always have a built in automatic gearbox, so they are technically an automatic gearbox with a manual option.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez automatics give inferior performance, inferior control over the car and worse fuel economy. what decent performance car doesn't give you control over the gears?

Oh boy, you're stuck in the 70's aren't you?. Fact: automatic transmissions have now overtaken manual in fuel economy as manufacturers use more gears on auto than manual. It doesn't make sense to have 6,7 or 9 speeds on a manual but you can do this for an auto meaning far more precise power matching. For instance, Ford now have the same if not better economy for all their auto models. Nissan the same, but even better than both with CVT transmissions. I could go on but you get the point.

quote:

Originally posted by rubez american cars are well known for their abysmal handling, no wonder you all don't enjoy driving... just stick it in "drive" and autopilot to your destination

That's why I drive a mercedes

You should really do some research before posting. Even a simple google would have stopped you from posting nonsense:

http://www.edmunds.com/fuel-economy...ick-shifts.html

Manual are great for the control aspect, and I love them on sports cars, but any other argument is just outdated fallacy.

RANN, you missed the *real* reason Americans drive automatics - we like to keep one hand on our gun at all times.

And, Scots prefer manuals because they're less likely to get stuck when they're driving through pastures looking for the purtiest sheep.

Stupid stereotypes ftw.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Now here's where you really get it wrong: Less than 3.9% of cars made this year were manual and it's been decreasing every year for the last 30 years. Virtually dead is a better way to put it.

Where did you read that bullshit? I'm sure you're not telling the whole story.
99% of the cars in Europe are manual (including Eurasia) and there isn't any tendency to change that. Whole Africa drives manual and the middle east as well. Most of Latin America drives manual. Not sure for Asia, but I think a part from Japan there is 50/50.

Any chance we could get back on topic?

Yes, but first RANN should admit that he's a dirty liar cause he omitted to say those statistic were relevant for the USA. By omitting that he alluded the big majority of the world drives automatic which is a blatant lie.

quote:

Originally posted by Sushipunk Any chance we could get back on topic?

This thread had a topic?

OK, here is my attempt at an actual helpful reply. OP - it makes much more sense (space- and budget-permitting) to go with a bigger keyboard if this is for home use. It's much more convenient and you will have an easier time advancing if you have a keyboard with at least 49 keys (61/88 is even better). Think long-term. If you really need assistance getting used to the notes/octaves, you could try using something like these note decals until you're comfortable with it. I typically wouldn't recommend a crutch like this to my own students since, as I mentioned many times, it shouldn't take you much time at all to learn them. But, they shouldn't hurt as long as you don't rely on them for very long. Again, think long-term and buy a keyboard that you can grow into, rather than something you'll outgrow in a short time. That's my advice.

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