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-- Pronunciation Round #2 --- IRAN
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Now you're just fucking with us.

If you're going to say "ih" it isn;t going to be followed with "ron". It's "rahn"

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J You don't say Eee-ndia unless you are a Doctor Evil.

lol

For most Americans and probably also Canadians, "rahn" and "ron" would be pronounced the same.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A For most Americans and probably also Canadians, "rahn" and "ron" would be pronounced the same.

Not even close for the rest of us

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN Now you're just fucking with us. If you're going to say "ih" it isn;t going to be followed with "ron". It's "rahn"

This.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A If we're really going to say it the Farsi way, it should be spelled "Eedan," since that is the closest English orthographic approximation to that pronunciation (unless maybe you are Scottish).

edan?

i dont get it where did you get the d?

D = د not ر which = R

IH = ای
R = ر
AHN = ان


i know they look the same but we use R instead of D in Iran. so the letter exists we don't need a closest approximation. Frasi has more letters than Arabic btw (i think they even have P)

I'm talking about phonology.

"R" of Farsi is the alveolar tap. It is very different from the English "R," which is alveolar approximant. The closest English sound to Farsi "R" is the tapped "D" of a word like "bladder," i.e. at the beginning of an unstressed syllable.

I'm talking about the actual sounds, not the superficial similarity in spelling.

French "rat" and English "rat" mean the exact same thing and are spelled the exact same way. Doesn't mean they sound much alike.

quote:

Originally posted by Lews Ih-Rahn.

Pffft, I already said that. I just spelled it differently.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A For most Americans and probably also Canadians, "rahn" and "ron" would be pronounced the same.

Yes. I'm not trolling you guys.

So "IH" sounds like the "I" in India and not "E" ?

All this poll has shown me is that there were more ways to do this than I thought lol

The Finnish pronounciation would be "iran".

Our english dictonary teaches us it is pronounced like this:
Iran
-> click on the speaker icon.

the american speaker of "Islamic Republic of Iran" disagress with the rest a little

Interestingly, the last two British samples on that page say it as /ɪˈɹ�n/, which would be written "ih-ran," the second syllable rhyming with the past tense of "run."

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A Interestingly, the last two British samples on that page say it as /ɪˈɹ�n/, which would be written "ih-ran," the second syllable rhyming with the past tense of "run."

Yeah, that's probably how I would say it. As a Northerner I tend to lapse into the flat "a" rather than the proper "ah" of received pronunciation.

All I can say is that I'm fighting the urge to add the phonetic symbols next to the options

(And that I seriously don't know how I'd pronounce the word)

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A I'm talking about phonology. "R" of Farsi is the alveolar tap. It is very different from the English "R," which is alveolar approximant. The closest English sound to Farsi "R" is the tapped "D" of a word like "bladder," i.e. at the beginning of an unstressed syllable. I'm talking about the actual sounds, not the superficial similarity in spelling. French "rat" and English "rat" mean the exact same thing and are spelled the exact same way. Doesn't mean they sound much alike.

I still don't get it. I've heard Persian people say Iran and there is no "d" sound in it.



its the same "R" that is used in arabic R = ر


I get it the t is silent in french when you say "rat" it actually sounds like "ra"

but there is no D sound when you say R = ر in arabic Or in farsi.

you roll it more, but you don't actually have a d sound to it.

if you could post a sound clip to what you are referring too (As i have done) maybe it would help get your point across better.


[ʔiːˈɾɑn]

not to be confused with :

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiced_alveolar_stop

I'm not talking about the letters. It's totally irrelevant to my argument that for historical reasons the character representing the /ɾ/ pronounced in Persian is still considered "equivalent" to the "r" of the English alphabet.

You pointed to the Persian pronunciation as the correct one, and my point is that phonologically speaking, /ɾ/ is the same as the pronunciation of intervocalic, unstressed "d" (which is alveolar flap, not alveolar stop) in many varieties of English. And that sound is far from the sound that English speakers make when they say the letter "r." And that is why it would make zero sense to spell it "Iran" if your goal was to get people to pronounce it something like the Persian way.

quote:

Originally posted by Swamper Yes. I'm not trolling you guys. So "IH" sounds like the "I" in India and not "E" ?

How the hell could 'Ih' sound like 'E' ???

I refuse to believe you're not trolling with this.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A I'm not talking about the letters. It's totally irrelevant to my argument that for historical reasons the character representing the /ɾ/ pronounced in Persian is still considered "equivalent" to the "r" of the English alphabet. You pointed to the Persian pronunciation as the correct one, and my point is that phonologically speaking, /ɾ/ is the same as the pronunciation of intervocalic, unstressed "d" (which is alveolar flap, not alveolar stop) in many varieties of English. And that sound is far from the sound that English speakers make when they say the letter "r." And that is why it would make zero sense to spell it "Iran" if your goal was to get people to pronounce it something like the Persian way.

Ok - not knowing anything about phonlogy and delving into it now, i see what your saying and it seems sensible.

thanks for that quick lesson



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alveolar_consonant

quote:

Originally posted by Lews How the hell could 'Ih' sound like 'E' ???

This wouldn't be unexpected. In parts of the US, as my memory has it, some people fail to distinguish between these sounds before "l", so that "fill" and "feel" sound the same, so "ih" would sound like "e" (or vice-versa) in these words for speakers in this area.

Having said this, you're the native speaker, so what do I know?

It's the Southern pen-pin merger. The resulting sound actually ends up as neither of those vowels, though, instead becoming /piən/ (PEEun). Same diphthong as in standard American pronunciation of "reel."

This thread is reminding me how much I hated phonetics at university.

I love this shit. But then I was never forced to take a class on it. Things are usually more fun that way.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A It's the Southern pen-pin merger. The resulting sound actually ends up as neither of those vowels, though, instead becoming /piən/ (PEEun). Same diphthong as in standard American pronunciation of "reel."

But you're really talking about a local accent, that would confuse most other English speakers, so it's not really a valid pronunciation at last in terms of general use of phonetics.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A It's the Southern pen-pin merger. The resulting sound actually ends up as neither of those vowels, though, instead becoming /piən/ (PEEun). Same diphthong as in standard American pronunciation of "reel."

Holy shit my 'real' and 'reel' sound the same

ee-ROLL THE R-an

that's the closest you're gonna get me thinks

Like I said, I'm not a native speaker, so I'm sure you guys know about the pin-pen merger a lot better than I do. Wikipedia fooled me though, because it never mentioned it was a diphthong, damn Wiki!

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J This thread is reminding me how much I hated phonetics at university.

Wait, really!? You like sounds (erm... music) and language, but you don't like phonetics? Heh, didn't see it coming.

quote:

Originally posted by Vector A I love this shit. But then I was never forced to take a class on it. Things are usually more fun that way.

I didn't really mind most classes I had on phonetics. I self-taught myself the stuff when I was 18 and I still have an IPA chart above my bed, so the lecturers often let me pronounce the sounds they couldn't say (like uvular trills and lateral fricatives). That was fun.

This usually happened in the beginning of the semester, so the lecturers would let me mind my own business in class and play solitaire on my computer

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