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-- Can We sustain ourselves with petroleum?
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quote:

Originally posted by jploveparade For electricity we can use wind power (Coastal areas), solar power (warm areas) or hydropower (mountain areas) The alternative to petrol will be hydrogen or natural gas

I agree with this, it would also help put the arab oil barons out of business, and they wouldn't have our American money to terrorize the world with. Solar powered cars would be cool as well.

In addition, I see nuclear power as a national security risk. Imagine if Nuclear Power Plants were targeted by terrorists, the results would be horrific. Coal however is still our main source of power last I checked, although it is quite dirty.

Yes, hydrogen is pumped into the fuel cell and out comes water ... here's an article if you want more info:

http://www.motor.com/MAGAZINE/Articles/122000_07.html

Anyway I read a good article that says solar power is the wave of the future. Basically we can set up solar collectors around the moon or on satellites orbiting the sun that can beam the energy back to the earth through microwave waves. Even though we have the tech to do this today and we can solve a lot of world energy problems, the cost of setting this up is in the billions. Why spend billions when we have a cheap, readily available fossil fuel handy? Pollution shmallootion

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy it will all balance out in the worlds free market... right now oil is probably the cheapest ways to produce energy, but when the supply will start to dwindle and prices start to soar the obvious outcome is that energy will be gotten from cheaper sorces.

The problem I have with this is that the free market cares only about what's:

1) Legal.
2) Cheap.

Petro based products are dirty, and they do a very nice job of destroying the atmosphere of the planet that we're living on.

Car companies are able to make cars that are based on other technologies, but until there are rules in place, or people in majorities that are demanding it, petro is going to continue to be used, and it's going to continue to pollute the world.

I know the above was slightly OT, but I think people tend to lose sight of that in the worry about the economic and political side of things.

I think the best solution to wean NA off petro is to increase mass transit, and to try to make (cleaner technology based) cars only necessary for local trips (for those who live outside metropolitan areas at least).

Without a good mass transit system cars are going to continue to exist, and IMHO, they're woefully inefficient, especially in city centres.

As for standard power, I'd also guess a combination of clean technologies like wind, solar, and hydro will be used even more. I know in Europe wind power is pretty popular, but it's still in it's infancy in North America.

I'm hoping some firm will make an attempt to cut costs on turbines, so they can be sold to smaller farmers as a profit producer. I know some farmers have been able to afford them, but making them more accessable will increase adoption rate, and increase usage, which is a good thing IMHO.

one thing that i would like to add to that is that it is likely that whenever (or in this case whatever) a substance of material is used in obscene amounts it will most likely cause the environment to become unbalanced... another reason why we should not depend on single resources to cover our energy needs

Nuclear power is cheap and clean and efficient. Today's technology is advanced enough to make it safe (no meltdowns and stuff). But it has a bad reputation, because most people only know of nuclear power through atomic bombs and chernobyl.

Verona^My makes a good point about it being a security risk though. In the end, we can always harness mother nature's energ, wind, solar, hydro.

But as long as the big oil companies are making $$$, they'll keep milking the earth dry.

i cant see anything wrong with safe nuclear power either... what else are our options?? after 50 years they have gained much more knowledge, and besides.... chernobyl was in russia during a desperate time.

another thing to think about is transportation in general...

should we even use single automobiles in the future, or rather a complex and organized high speed rail system? hmm...

quote:

Originally posted by trancedfarmer what else are our options??

fusion.
hopefully not too long...

quote:

Originally posted by trancedfarmer i cant see anything wrong with safe nuclear power either... what else are our options?? after 50 years they have gained much more knowledge, and besides.... chernobyl was in russia during a desperate time. another thing to think about is transportation in general... should we even use single automobiles in the future, or rather a complex and organized high speed rail system? hmm...

I really think that a complex and organized and mass transportation system with low-prices, is much more efficient, enviro-friendly, and convenient than individual cars. Well, for downtown travel anyway.

Ideally, there would be no cars, and busses/streetcars would own the road, coming to each stop every 5 mins. Every place in the city should be accessible to a bus-stop or subway station by a 5min walk. Then there would be no frustrating traffic.

However, cars have become a big symbol in our culture, of status, sex appeal, and people have a big attachment to their cars. They love the individuality, the privacy, the control.

Some days my girlfriend drives to school, cuz she likes to drive. Sometimes she takes the bus/subway, because of highway traffic and downtown gridlock.

yeah... individual automobiles is a fucking stupid concept in terms of sustainability and, well, sanity... fun to drive, but a headache in soooo many ways... if we could go back and make mass transit the priority in the beginning and have no cars! wow... but then again, i like driving too.

quote:

Originally posted by Robert fusion. hopefully not too long...

mmm, I think solar, wind, & water power are probably less dangerous, but fusion may be able to be perfected sooner than solar.

trancedfarmer, are you sure you're not a socialist/communist? sorry but reading your posts those are the vibes i'm feeling...

as far as energy... i say they just put more R&D into golf carts, throw a hard top and A/C and radio in them, and everybody drive golfcarts, with different body styles, different configurations... just throw a coupla die hard rechargeable lithium-ion batteries in them and drive forever.

-ABT-

nope...

golf carts eh? Thats the American spirit!

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