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-- Plastic surgery, anyone?
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I used to think so too. But who cares? Whatever a person needs to do to feel good about themselves, so be it. Additionally, some people really do have such body disfigurement or whatever that I can see how hard it would be to "just accept it." Some shit you just can't.

That said, I do think it's important for people to think critically about who/what/why/where their self esteem (or lack of it) comes from, and who/what/why benefits from buying into the entire cosmetic industry.

I have always been pretty vocal about what a joke/scam I think it all is, and I think it's a real shame that so many people don't realize how they are being manipulated by corporations that benefit from people feeling shitty about themselves.


edit: sorry, I see you addressed the disfigurement argument.

Google image search "tuberous breasts". You better believe I'd be getting a really nice augmentation if that's what my tits looked like.

I will probably pay for certain preventative surgeries like botox. I haven't researched it enough and i'm still young-ish. Also get certain skin impections lazered off.

it seems pretty standard granted it might just be the people i'm around.
Being healthy and eating well is probably 90% and the rest is to feed my insecurities. Being good looking is my only currency.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson Whatever a person needs to do to feel good about themselves, so be it.

Yea, that's the thing. Everyone is looking outwardly for that instead of inward.

I just read about this today in Gabor Mate's In The Realm Of Hungry Ghosts. (I highly recommend this book!!!)

He references this article:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2...t/29/health.usa

Wonder what that 10-year-old figure is today (too lazy to Google). The cult of "young" body image

I know the book, I recommended it here years ago when it came out, after I saw him speak on the tour he did to promote it and his work.


And yeah that's my point, which is why I said I think it's important for people to think critically about what/why/where/how their self esteem comes from. The factors impacting it, etc.

There is so much garbage in the media and advertising poisoning people's minds, and I really think most people are too brainwashed by it to stop and think that there is an agenda to make them feel shitty about themselves and; therefore, dependent on outward things like cosmetics, clothes, and whatever other superficial and material things to feel good.


I would love to do seminars or be able to teach people somehow about media awareness. Help slow down the machine that is blind consumerism and get people back to fucking reality.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson I know the book, I recommended it here years ago when it came out, after I saw him speak on the tour he did to promote it and his work.

Nice! I never saw that, and I think I've posted it here before, too.

I'm grateful to him for writing it. It's really sunk in for me.

Maybe that's a combination of where I'm at in my life and the information in it. I'm just thankful something's finally clicking.

I'm hopeful of the future, and I hope I can hear him speak one day

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson I would love to do seminars or be able to teach people somehow about media awareness. Help slow down the machine that is blind consumerism and get people back to fucking reality.

Do it! The world needs it now more than ever.

I have a long road ahead of me overcoming my own addiction, but I'm headed in the right direction and one day hope I can give back to those in the same boat I'm in today.

I'm encouraged and empowered by it more than I've been in my life.

Yeah I've talked often about him (Mate). I cannot describe what it was like hearing him discuss his ideas and work, live. There was so much clarity, so much understanding, so much compassion in every fibre of his thoughts and being. He is a special man doing important work. You know when you meet people that just have that aura about them? He has it. I was awestruck.

While it's true that those late capitalist boogeymen - the media and consumerism - encourage insecurity and neurotic self-obsession, really they are as old as time. There's little point in denying that outward appearance is hugely important in this life. Everyone forms opinions on everyone else based on how they look, consciously or otherwise. Your appearance is not some arbitrary carapace, and there is a limit to how much your behaviour and character can override that.

It's totally normal to cut your hair, clip your nails, wear nice clothes and go to extensive lengths to correct your wonky teeth. Plastic surgery is only one expensive step beyond all that. If it were free, easy and produced perfect results, would you not have it done?

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson Yeah I've talked often about him (Mate). I cannot describe what it was like hearing him discuss his ideas and work, live. There was so much clarity, so much understanding, so much compassion in every fibre of his thoughts and being. He is a special man doing important work. You know when you meet people that just have that aura about them? He has it. I was awestruck.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J While it's true that those late capitalist boogeymen - the media and consumerism - encourage insecurity and neurotic self-obsession, really they are as old as time. There's little point in denying that outward appearance is hugely important in this life. Everyone forms opinions on everyone else based on how they look, consciously or otherwise. Your appearance is not some arbitrary carapace, and there is a limit to how much your behaviour and character can override that. It's totally normal to cut your hair, clip your nails, wear nice clothes and go to extensive lengths to correct your wonky teeth. Plastic surgery is only one expensive step beyond all that. If it were free, easy and produced perfect results, would you not have it done?

I don't think it isn't important. I didn't think it was implied that I was denying that by anything I said, either. But surprise surprise, you just HAVE to be argumentative.

Jesus fucking christ just ONCE I'd love to be able to share a thought here without fuckface Jack coming in and trying to rip anything and everything I type to shreds. We get it, everyone but you is a fucking moron.

Fucking insufferable cunt, Jesus.

I was talking to OrangestO. You just happened to reply while I was writing that out. Pissing you off so mightily is a welcome bonus though, I must say.

Yeah? Go fuck yourself.

Chortle. What RANN would give to score such a direct hit.

I'm surprised he's not in here yet, actually. This topic seems tailor-made for his "rich people I know in LA" anecdote compendium.

I blocked RANN well over a year ago.

edit: sorry ignore, not block. I forgot this isn't FB.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I was talking to OrangestO. You just happened to reply while I was writing that out. Pissing you off so mightily is a welcome bonus though, I must say.

What were you replying to or talking about, though?

I didn't really make any points other than commenting that, yea, our society is by and large looking outward instead of inward to feel good about themselves. Jenny kind of already stated that. I just wanted to add to it; my true motive was to share that book.

There's a difference between keeping a healthy outward appearance and obsessing over it to the point of going under the knife time and time again.

Or maybe even just once. I guess that's what's worth debating here.

Personally, I would never do it. I'm in no position to judge, though.

I've been 'bald' for five years now. If I were to care about my outward appearance to the point of undergoing a procedure, it'd be for that.

But I don't. I love being bald, lol.

I think there's a charm to embracing old age and all that comes with it. That embrace makes me feel good about it, and myself.

And, at the end of the day, nothing you seek out there will help you feel better in here. Call it a cliche, but it's the simple truth.

And what is the limit? Like once you start doing all that shit, what? You're just gonna stop one day and then what, you're suddenly physically old as balls?? I can't imagine that would be too good on the ole psyche.

People who do all that shit well into old age don't look "better" or "younger," they just look old with a lot of work done. It looks creepy as hell, and you don't even look like the same person!

I've only softened my opinion on it in recent years simply for trying to give a fuck less about what other people do and be less judgmental, understand where others are coming from, etc.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow No matter how you slice it, I think all cosmetic surgery is a joke whether it's fake boobs or getting "chopped". Unless you're disfigured or it's for medical purposes, there no reason to change the way you are. But that's the human condition. Give people the opportunity to fight the laws of nature and they can't resist.

Have you seen Nicholas Winding Refn's latest, "The Neon Demon"? It's specifically about the vapidity and jealousy of the LA modeling scene, but there's a particular line one of the said vapid fashionistas say about plastic surgery-

This one exactly, actually.

for reference, the scene begins where a girl says she got turned down for a role because her voice didn't match her face. the girl that was used as the example, who has gotten a vast amount of plastic surgery and was unabashed in her love of it and her surgeon, replied, "oh, you can fix that." the guy, apparently some sort of respected, famous fashion designer, quips, "no, don't do that." "why not?" "because you can never fake beauty and ugly is ugly no matter what you do to yourself." "that's horrible." "no, it's true... dean- we're having a little debate here, etc." and then the above scene begins.

that's the gist of it, at least, if memory serves correctly. i just watched it last week.

Yeah we watched it recently too. Was aight.

Thx. I'll have to check that out.


I think ever since Jack sold that cow for those magic beans he's had a chip on his shoulder out to prove he's the smartest in the room.

quote:

Originally posted by Silky Johnson Yeah we watched it recently too. Was aight.

it wasn't my favorite film of his but i'm a sucker for the weird, "thought-provoking", artistically masturbatory more "style over substance" than actually profound movies and then pretend to understand them and then tell myself that yes, i'm a sophisticated aficionado of films because i can name one movie by Fellini and David Lynch's films are neat.

you know.

quote:

Originally posted by Jon_Snow Thx. I'll have to check that out. I think ever since Jack sold that cow for those magic beans he's had a chip on his shoulder out to prove he's the smartest in the room.

if you liked his other movies you'll enjoy it. there's a pretty hot in a weird way scene with jena malone and the main character.. elle fanning i think?

actually i'd say if you liked his other weird movies like "Only God Forgives" you'll like it. everybody liked "Drive" so that doesn't really count.

Def a style over substance film, but that's totally appropriate and ok, imo.

quote:

Originally posted by OrangestO What were you replying to or talking about, though?

Partly the fortune-cookie philosophy of "Looking inwards for happiness", and partly the suggestion that body-image obsession is some kind of growing cult, implying it's some kind of recent phenomenon.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Partly the fortune-cookie philosophy of "Looking inwards for happiness", and partly the suggestion that body-image obsession is some kind of growing cult, implying it's some kind of recent phenomenon.

I didn't state body-image obsession was some recent phenomenon. I work in marketing; I know what's going on, lol.

But using plastic surgery to deal with it is.

http://www.surgery.org/media/news-r...first-time-ever

quote:

For the first time on record, Americans spent more than 13.5 billion dollars on combined (surgical and nonsurgical) aesthetic procedures in a single calendar year, according to the American Society for Aesthetic Plastic Surgery (ASAPS). The total reflects a 1.5-billion-dollar increase from 2014. Surgical procedures accounted for 58% of the total expenditures, surpassing the 8-billion-dollar mark for the first time ever, and nonsurgical procedures accounted for 42% of the total expenditures, surpassing the 5-billion-dollar mark for the first time ever. �Our industry�s growth is considerable, but not at all surprising,� states James C. Grotting, MD, President of ASAPS. �It reflects a healthy and robust economy wherein many people can afford to, and want to invest in themselves. As editor Joel Stein aptly pointed out last year in TIME Magazine�s article, Nip. Tuck. Or Else., more people now perceive aesthetic enhancements and procedures as essential. I personally believe the motivating factors for that are varied, but remaining competitive in the workforce is certainly a common factor. Youth is a commodity, and people are investing in themselves to maintain a younger, healthier appearance,� Grotting explains. ASAPS� data also reflects emerging and changing trends from previous years, including: Breast lifts replacing rhinoplasty as the 5th most popular procedure for the year, (with liposuction, breast augmentation, tummy tuck and eyelid surgery in the 1st � 4th places respectively) Fat transfer to the face, (a new category for ASAPS this year) instantly landed in the top 10 surgical procedures in the number 9 slot. Nonsurgical skin tightening jumped from 9th to 7th most popular procedure in the nonsurgical category, while also securing the 5th spot for most popular procedures among men, replacing microdermabrasion in the top 5 for males. Labiaplasty, still considered a �new� procedure, saw another increase in 2015, (16%) as did buttock augmentation, with a 21% increase in implants and fat transfer combined, and a 32% increase in buttock lifts. The two most popular injectables year-over-year, (botulinum toxin and hyaluronic acid) both saw continued growth, with botulinum toxin, (BOTOX, Dysport and Xeomin) surpassing 4 million procedures performed and hyaluronic acid, (Juvederm Ultra, Ultra Plus, Voluma, Perlane, Restylane, Belotero) surpassing the 2 million procedures performed mark for the first time this year as well. Daniel C. Mills, MD, President-Elect states, �Ever-popular procedures, including liposuction and breast augmentation, also saw growth this year as the first and second most popular surgical procedures overall, accounting for nearly 40% percent of the surgical procedures performed, demonstrating that the power and permanence of the knife continues to dominate the plastic surgery marketplace.�

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