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-- European Politics Thread: Netherlands, France, Germany, Great Britain, and Narnia 2017
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quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Exactly, 90% of all energy is used by industry.

He's just posted a graph disproving that statistic, so you might want to bring some evidence to the party if you want to keep using it.

My favourite foreign pornographic film is 'Entering the Whoreient'

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J

I wasn't talking about this Green party, I was just saying in general. Agree to disagree but we both know regular people only do those things because there aren't many alternatives or money invested in developing them. If you get to into taxing people for their McDonalds cheeseburgers and give McDonalds a tax break, you are what's wrong. If you're down with that mentality you are also what's wrong. That's my point.

Edit: if you tax corporation/entity and individual anything less than what would be proportional, respectively, that is douchey scum behavior and counter productive.

Not only do I think that's bollocks, I also it's just the standard simplistic leftist mantra of "Tax the rich/corporations, give poor people a break!", as if that alone is a credible policy. It's got nothing to do with environmentalism, nothing to do with this discussion, and you've ended up agreeing with someone trying to silence the environmentalist cause because they want to get cheaper tax on their car, all because you're too keen to parrot the same repetitive shit. Worst of all, it encapsulate the one thing I hate about left-wing thought, which is the erasure of personal accountability. Blame big businesses, distant elites, never yourself and your actions.

And before you give me the "real people, real struggles" spiel, let me hit you up on some life experience. When I was dirt poor, I had to choose whether I could afford to buy a bus ticket or whether I needed to walk three miles to buy my weekly groceries and carry them home. If you're actually in the struggling bracket of society, you probably can't afford to drive. So no sympathy for me for these poor impoverished drivers clogging up the concrete arteries of every country.

You sure speak like you know people's circumstances a hell of a lot. Fuck a cab driver. Call me simple all you want I was only arguing for proportionality. I'm all for personal responsibility, the problem arises when the "but I'm a job creator" excuse pops up in order to excuse the big guys from paying up. You don't have a problem with that?

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Well, you mean the south of Holland as South Holland (Zuid-Holland) is the province holding The Hague and Rotterdam

Haha, oops

The Southern bit of the Netherlands, I mean

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Yes it has become Wilders country over here so I guess many are disappointed. But next to liberals (VVD) also still many are democrats, CDA as we, me included, have a farmers background, which is fading though. The closest city, in which I also work, always was very left (SP) but now like in all bigger cities PVV has taken over the first place. So the national outcome does not reflect the votes from Limburg. But don't forget, PVV is the second biggest party now and many do agree with their ideas, but like in my case just not enough to vote for them. I bet if Erdogan had shut his mouth PVV even would have gotten more votes in the rest of the country. The Turkish party DENK (Think) got 3 seats. The only positive thing is that many Muslims still did not vote for them. I don't like it when Turks which are born here and when referring to "My president" or even worse "My country" are referring to Erdogan and Turkey. Compared to Turkey Holland for sure is a much much much much nicer country to live in, so I'm for a one passport policy which would prevent Turks who are born here to vote for Turkey. Force them to choose, than we will see if they really love Turkey as much as they think they do.

This bothers me a bit in Brazil with a few of the poorly integrated Japanese immigrants, specially when they seem racist towards us (I've overheard stuff like "the Japanese don't lie and Brazilians are cheaters" not just once, which makes me wonder if they have not realised their children are Brazilian ). Anyway...

I followed this election very closely, and noticed the patchwork of preferences throughout the country, with the PVV making its gains mostly in border regions. One thing I don't get though is this:

If Wilders is the only members of his party, then how exactly does he get 9 seats? Who will "sit" in those seats, exactly? I don't even know how to ask Google this question

Oh, wonderful, we're back to Kenny blaming McDonald's for people choosing to eat there. Those damned evil corporations, always forcing people to buy their products!

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Holland already is about the most expensive country to drive a car. To compare, a Ford Mustang 2.3 costs here �55k, in Belgium and Germany �35k. A Mustangs 5.0 costs �112k !!! vs �40k in Belgium and Germany.

jesus. how do they stop people buying them elsewhere in the zone and bringing them back?

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Cow farts.

actually, burps.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid If you look at the scale of what is required to stand a chance, the main culprits are not regular people living their everyday lives, by a long shot, if I'm reading all this information correctly.

who is buying all the beef, electricity and consumer goods if not the "regular people"?

the fact is carbon pricing (for instance) will inevitably impact the consumer (as it should). how is a coal power station more deserving of green tape than all those who benefit from its energy generation?

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN actually, burps.

Just let me have this one thing.

quote:

Originally posted by Mr.Mystery Just let me have this one thing.

farts it is!!

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN how is a coal power station more deserving of green tape than all those who benefit from its energy generation?

This is very simple. Because they are working for a profit off the backs of all dependent on them. This is why energy programs should be government run with tax payer money just like public transportation.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid This is very simple. Because they are working for a profit off the backs of all dependent on them.

because a profit motive is somehow less noble than a desire to be warmer in the winter, cooler in the summer, having a preference for avoiding the poor on public transport, or indulging tastebuds with unnecessary quantities of animal products?

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid This is why energy programs should be government run with tax payer money just like public transportation.

this has nothing to do with what i asked.

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Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN because a profit motive is somehow less noble than a desire to be warmer in the winter, cooler in the summer, having a preference for avoiding the poor on public transport, or indulging tastebuds with unnecessary quantities of animal products?

On that scale yes. It's about equity. This is why capitalism is linear and doomed from the beginning. Just reason with me. There is a demand for affordable food, you as an entrepreneur have the ability to provide the supply and make a handsome profit but with detrimental costs to the environment, its rosources, and your customer's healths, and there is no legislation to impede you. Society is at this point held ransom to your better angels.

quote:

has nothing to do with what i asked.

It has everything to do with what you asked. The coal mine is deseving of the green tape because its priorities are monetary, if it was publicly funded it would be cyclic. We pay for this energy that we make use of directly without the middle man getting rich off of us.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid On that scale yes. It's about equity. This is why capitalism is linear and doomed from the beginning. Just reason with me. There is a demand for affordable food, you as an entrepreneur have the ability to provide the supply and make a handsome profit but with detrimental costs to the environment, its rosources, and your customer's healths, and there is no legislation to impede you. Society is at this point held ransom to your better angels.

Society is held ransom the better angels of McDonald's because they produce cheap hamburgers?

Where the fuck do you get your ideas from?

Fuck

House music and acid, bro, that's where I get my crazy ideas from.

Anime and red tube. Jizz everywhere. I live in filth and and weigh 400 lbs.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid You sure speak like you know people's circumstances a hell of a lot. Fuck a cab driver. Call me simple all you want I was only arguing for proportionality. I'm all for personal responsibility, the problem arises when the "but I'm a job creator" excuse pops up in order to excuse the big guys from paying up. You don't have a problem with that?

It hasn't cropped up. It should be perfectly obvious that I think we should attack this issue from all angles, including targeting big business. But I do not for one second think we should give "normal people" a free pass and only focus on the big boys. Most of what you're saying is, at best, irrelevant. At worst it's badly skewing your understanding and position on this issue.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J It hasn't cropped up. It should be perfectly obvious that I think we should attack this issue from all angles, including targeting big business. But I do not for one second think we should give "normal people" a free pass and only focus on the big boys. Most of what you're saying is, at best, irrelevant. At worst it's badly skewing your understanding and position on this issue.

I never claimed it to be revelant to your situation I was just siding with the sentiment if it was factually accurate because in many instances around the world it is. Im also not for giving regular people a free pass under the current global cirmunstaces, generally speaking. I was just arguing for equity.

Edit: I see where I misspoke. Target civilians for emission taxes proportionately.

quote:

Originally posted by Lira If Wilders is the only members of his party, then how exactly does he get 9 seats? Who will "sit" in those seats, exactly? I don't even know how to ask Google this question

Very simple, why do you need members? He just gathers people around him who agree with his idea's and are willing to fight for those.

quote:

Originally posted by pkcRAISTLIN jesus. how do they stop people buying them elsewhere in the zone and bringing them back?

Consumer tax is 21%, the other tax is called BPM and is based on CO2 emission. The BPM % gets lower when cars get older. That way it's not worth the effort to buy a new or very young car in a surrounding country as you still need to pay both taxes. It gets more interesting when cars are 3 years or older as the BPM % then drops quickly.

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J He's just posted a graph disproving that statistic, so you might want to bring some evidence to the party if you want to keep using it.

Energy consumption of households is more like 23%.
I'm not sure if traveling to and from work is included. Traveling to and from work is about 27% of the energy consumption of an average office.

GroenLinks wants people to work at home, well, how many people can work at home? Next to that if you're home that will be inefficient especially during winter, so eventually it's nothing more than shifting problems.
They totally like windmills in the sea, only problem is that in 2014 only 5% of the electricity came from windmills which was only 0,7% of the annual energy need. If we scale it to 20% it's still just 2.8% of the annual energy need, so windmills clearly aren't the solution.
They are just dreaming...

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M They totally like windmills in the sea, only problem is that in 2014 only 5% of the electricity came from windmills which was only 0,7% of the annual energy need. If we scale it to 20% it's still just 2.8% of the annual energy need, so windmills clearly aren't the solution. They are just dreaming...

You're dumber than a bag of hammers, aren't you?

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Very simple, why do you need members? He just gathers people around him who agree with his idea's and are willing to fight for those.

I couldn't come up with a good reason, so yeah, I guess he has a point

quote:

Originally posted by Lews You're dumber than a bag of hammers, aren't you?

quote:

GroenLinks Our country depends too much on fossil fuels such as gas, coal and oil. The burning of this contributes to the global warming. We choose a country that runs on solar and wind energy. Of course no coal plants.

As GroenLinks of course also is against nuclear power they will bring us back to the middle ages for sure. Keep dreaming.

Yeah, that's great; you still haven't proven that green energy is impossible to achieve.

And as I said before, obviously GroenLinks in power would be a bad thing. I'm not on their side. My family is very much CDA

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