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quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think it's important with trance to note that this is, to some extent, inherently silly music. However, if you acknowledge that, you can get swept up in its exhilarating rush of sound. The expression I use for this double-think, this surrender to its charm, is "Putting your trance trousers on". Because even melodramatic music can be extremely well made, and the best trance music has some wonderfully complex, unique, twisted sounds in it that never get boring to listen to.

Perfectly put

The beauty of electronic music is that if your ear is curious enough, which is likely the case because you're here, you'll always stumble upon gems you haven't heard before - tracks, albums, sets, whatever. You'll start with trance and eventually open other doors. Those pathways will lead to discoveries that deepen your search within this wonderful world. I still consider myself a relatively new listener of electronic music - nearly a decade. While I've sometimes wished I knew about it earlier so I could have danced during the so-called golden years, I love that I have myriad unheard artifacts to uncover. It's an endless stream of sound that never gets tiring to swim in. Just float, and enjoy the ride.

On that note, welcome to TA. Here's my small contribution to the thread. Cheers

https://www.mixcloud.com/TiestoFan9...continuous-mix/ (Check out the rest of the ISOS series, too.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SCHee6_yKA (Above & Beyond's old podcast is better - check those episodes out.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO-KPn5cEwc (PVD at Globus in Tresor, what more do you need to know.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNPWywY18CM&t=337s (The first electronic mix I remember listening to and being engulfed by.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSI...eature=youtu.be (A newer set filled with the classics - Aly & Fila are popular among the trance-ters.)

quote:

Originally posted by aufenglishbitte On that note, welcome to TA.

You're funny, because of the fact that this is your first post here, alt?

quote:

Originally posted by aufenglishbitte The beauty of electronic music is that if your ear is curious enough, which is likely the case because you're here, you'll always stumble upon gems you haven't heard before - tracks, albums, sets, whatever. You'll start with trance and eventually open other doors. Those pathways will lead to discoveries that deepen your search within this wonderful world. I still consider myself a relatively new listener of electronic music - nearly a decade. While I've sometimes wished I knew about it earlier so I could have danced during the so-called golden years, I love that I have myriad unheard artifacts to uncover. It's an endless stream of sound that never gets tiring to swim in. Just float, and enjoy the ride. On that note, welcome to TA. Here's my small contribution to the thread. Cheers https://www.mixcloud.com/TiestoFan9...continuous-mix/ (Check out the rest of the ISOS series, too.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_SCHee6_yKA (Above & Beyond's old podcast is better - check those episodes out.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YO-KPn5cEwc (PVD at Globus in Tresor, what more do you need to know.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNPWywY18CM&t=337s (The first electronic mix I remember listening to and being engulfed by.) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TSI...eature=youtu.be (A newer set filled with the classics - Aly & Fila are popular among the trance-ters.)

Thanks to you and everyone else for the recommendations. I have a huge backlog of tracks/mixes to listen to. Should anyone else feel like adding recommendations, I'd be keen to hear what everyone thinks are great (best) tracks with female vocals. I forgot to mention that in my OP that this was one of my key interests as well.

Again, HUGE thanks for all the recommendations. I have been listening to 2-3 hours of trance per day all week.

quote:

Originally posted by rattymouse What politics is ruining trance? I find this comment facinating and want to learn more.

Like anything humans touch, we tend to always a ruin a good thing. Trance is no different. Dirty games get played in the scene, backstabbing, shady/shifty deals, using bots to prop up views on social media, all giving people the illusion that everything is okay. People also not getting paid royalties either by labels or people they thought they could trust. People promised that they would get paid but then the agent decides to take back on his word and then not pay at all.

If you really want to know how the Trance scene is doing, You don't need to look far. Just see what the commercial trance scene plays and compare it to the tracks from 1990-2005. The quality tanks after that and now it's just filled with white noise, sounds low bit rate, uses noisy claps and they want to make as loud and destructive as possible because that's the only way to get the message out there.

It's this sick mentality that ruined this precious music that brought joy and happiness and helped people overcome through their struggles. It's crushing to see the greatest electronic music evermade being destroyed like this but the underground scene is doing so so far but still getting harder and harder to find those mellow tracks.

quote:

Originally posted by rattymouse Should anyone else feel like adding recommendations, I'd be keen to hear what everyone thinks are great (best) tracks with female vocals.

Female vocals are often used in uplifting trance, here are some I like, some are real bangers:









When being less uplifting it often leans a bit more to pop, but still nice, like this remix of the first one:

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M Female vocals are often used in uplifting trance, here are some I like, some are real bangers: When being less uplifting it often leans a bit more to pop, but still nice, like this remix of the first one:

Sloppy, too loud, cheesy and not fun to hear. This along with the big room crap, is what's wrong with commercial trance. They don't allow the tracks to breathe.

quote:

Originally posted by Omnisphere Sloppy, too loud, cheesy and not fun to hear. This along with the big room crap, is what's wrong with commercial trance. They don't allow the tracks to breathe.

There is nothing wrong with uplifting trance, you just don't like it.
I hate big room btw.

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M There is nothing wrong with uplifting trance, you just don't like it. I hate big room btw.

No, uplifting was created with heart. The tracks you posted sound like it's on steroids. This is how it was done.

quote:

Originally posted by rattymouse Greetings all, I'm new here and do not see a specific forum for those who are complete and total noobs when it comes to trance music. Apologies if I have missed this and am posting in the wrong place. I have recently discovered trance music and am totally enthralled with it. However, I grew up firmly in the rock world and so have am coming to this art form from this perspective and find it somewhat difficult. My introduction to trance has been through the Sirrius radio shows by Armin Van Buuren and Above and Beyond. From browsing this forum, I get the feeling that I've listened to only "pop" type trance and not the real deal. I would very much like recommendations on trance music that now has reached "classic" status. In rock music this would like naming The Beatles "Sgt. Peppers", The Rolling Stones, "Beggars Banquet", Led Zepplin "IV", etc. Often when I find an artist I like they have no albums, just singles. I find it very hard to get traction with an artist when there's just a few singles. I'm an album type listener and so am somewhat floundering at times in my efforts to dive deeper into trance. Web searches have only taken me so far and so I'm looking to this forum to help me learn more about trance. Many, many thanks in advance. RM

Boy, oh boy, where to start... Great question and here we are 20 years later after the "Golden Years" of trance (arguably). Thing is, you can see and hear tracks being produced today that harken back to the early 00s and, of course, if you follow the rabbit-hole, you will find tracks from the late 90s being influence by early 90s acid house, Chicago House, 80s synthpop, etc... and of course those are influeced by early 80s punk, disco, underground hip hop and house, which in turn was in turn influenced by rock and roll and etc etc etc..

So glad to have you on board. I applaud you for being able to go outside genres. I honestly have the same background where I grew up in mostly hard rock, alternative, grunge etc before I stumbled upon electronic music in 1995. But I think it takes a special listener to appreciate the different genres. Music is universal and affects people in different ways. I still enjoy my classic rock, heavy metal and punk (2 weeks ago I was at the Dropkick Murphys/Flogging Molly show here in Seattle, the next night I was at Solarstone). So I can appreciate the differences in music.

Enough rambling. Here are some posts from this thread that I want to add some color around:

(PS you are # 205,152, welcome to TA)

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J Glad you like it. If you can appreciate something that's twenty years old, there is a whole galaxy of music that awaits your exploration. In all honesty, it's been a long, long time since I tuned in to anything Armin or A&B have played, but I find the stuff being made under the "trance" moniker in 2018 to be very crass, emotionally limited and lacking in any degree of subtlety. On a technical front I also find it really over-produced with far too many layers and no space in the mixdown. To me, trance these days is incredibly shrill and silly. Of course, trance has never been the coolest genre of electronic music, and its critics down the years would say it's always been emotionally over-blown and overly busy. Even in 1997, there were people in the house, techno or jungle scenes who detested the kind of music PVD is playing in that Essential Mix. And those criticisms are true to some extent. There are big "cheesy" moments in that set as well. What has steadily happened in the 20 years since that era is that these aspects of the music have become amplified and amplified as each generation of musicians tries to raise the bar above their predecessors, and the restraint the older music had - which balanced out the cheesy moments - has long since been lost. I think it's important with trance to note that this is, to some extent, inherently silly music. However, if you acknowledge that, you can get swept up in its exhilarating rush of sound. The expression I use for this double-think, this surrender to its charm, is "Putting your trance trousers on". Because even melodramatic music can be extremely well made, and the best trance music has some wonderfully complex, unique, twisted sounds in it that never get boring to listen to. The biggest problem with a lot of trance fans is that they have been guilty of taking it all far too seriously.

THIS THIS THIS

great post and well said. Its hard to encapsulate in words the vibe & spirit from the early years, but this is the closest I've ever seen written. Much like my brother in law who was a huge Metallica fan back in the late 80s/early 90s and he saw Metallica live with Guns n Rose in 1992.. I've heard his stories and wish I could have been there, but I know the bands arent the same today as they were back then. You just had to "be there"

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid What?! You skipped one of the best decades if not the best. The birth of House, Techno and Hip-Hop music and era of piping hot Italo Disco, RnB and Electro and just generally good Pop music even.

This. You will go down a pretty big rabbit-hole with the amount of influences that EDM has.

quote:

Originally posted by aufenglishbitte The beauty of electronic music is that if your ear is curious enough, which is likely the case because you're here, you'll always stumble upon gems you haven't heard before - tracks, albums, sets, whatever. You'll start with trance and eventually open other doors. Those pathways will lead to discoveries that deepen your search within this wonderful world. I still consider myself a relatively new listener of electronic music - nearly a decade. While I've sometimes wished I knew about it earlier so I could have danced during the so-called golden years, I love that I have myriad unheard artifacts to uncover. It's an endless stream of sound that never gets tiring to swim in. Just float, and enjoy the ride. On that note, welcome to TA. Here's my small contribution to the thread. Cheers

Great first post AufEnglishbitte! well said and BTW you are TA # 205,149 beating out OP by 3 subscribers!!!

Lastly OP you said you grew up in the 70s/80s? Please check out Jeff Wayne's musical rendition of War of The Worlds. Start with that and move up the ladder.

Cheers

quote:

Originally posted by Omnisphere No, uplifting was created with heart. The tracks you posted sound like it's on steroids. This is how it was done.

I personally don't consider that one being uplifting. Next to that uplifting back then didn't even exist. But since I was a fan of Dance2Trance I think the link to uplifting is not that hard to imagine after listening to these two from 1993 and 1994:

quote:

Originally posted by Trance-M I personally don't consider that one being uplifting. Next to that uplifting back then didn't even exist. But since I was a fan of Dance2Trance I think the link to uplifting is not that hard to imagine after listening to these two from 1993 and 1994:

Depends on the era but modern uplifting has too much on steroids, antibiotics and hormones in it.

1) Go to Youtube;

2) Search for: The Source Experience;

3) You're welcome;

quote:

Originally posted by SYSTEM-J I think it's important with trance to note that this is, to some extent, inherently silly music. However, if you acknowledge that, you can get swept up in its exhilarating rush of sound. The expression I use for this double-think, this surrender to its charm, is "Putting your trance trousers on". Because even melodramatic music can be extremely well made, and the best trance music has some wonderfully complex, unique, twisted sounds in it that never get boring to listen to.

quote:

Originally posted by rdevito 1) Go to Youtube; 2) Search for: The Source Experience; 3) You're welcome;

I appreciate everyone's recommendations with great thanks. I just wish they were not so youtube based. I really loathe listening to music via youtube. Apple Music and Soundcloud are the streaming choices I prefer.

That said, I WILL certainly check out all youtube suggestions.

Thanks to everyone again.

Enough current Trance DJ sets here at the Soundcloud of Luminosity: https://soundcloud.com/luminosityevents-1

Tell us what you like or what you don't.

quote:

Originally posted by Omnisphere Like anything humans touch, we tend to always a ruin a good thing. Trance is no different. Dirty games get played in the scene, backstabbing, shady/shifty deals, using bots to prop up views on social media, all giving people the illusion that everything is okay. People also not getting paid royalties either by labels or people they thought they could trust. People promised that they would get paid but then the agent decides to take back on his word and then not pay at all. If you really want to know how the Trance scene is doing, You don't need to look far. Just see what the commercial trance scene plays and compare it to the tracks from 1990-2005. The quality tanks after that and now it's just filled with white noise, sounds low bit rate, uses noisy claps and they want to make as loud and destructive as possible because that's the only way to get the message out there. It's this sick mentality that ruined this precious music that brought joy and happiness and helped people overcome through their struggles. It's crushing to see the greatest electronic music evermade being destroyed like this but the underground scene is doing so so far but still getting harder and harder to find those mellow tracks.

The problem with this post is that it assumes something changed from the early days in terms business; it didn't.

Clubs were always run by shitty semi criminal promoters who would fuck anyone at any chance. Labels always ripped off artists. Bootleggers would popular tracks to make a quick pound/dollar. The only difference was that it was physical records so you could track how many were sold (to a degree) but even they people got stiff which is why a lot producers just took upfront fees for a track or remix (Timo Maas got paid $2k for Doom's night and that was all he ever saw from one of the biggest tracks of the decade).

DJ'ing used to be this mystical art that not many people could do. By the early 2000's, Technics Decks surpassed all guitar sales in Europe. It became far more accessible meaning less talented people due to less barriers of entry and the quality slid. Sasha was harmonic mixing in the early 90's and why his mixes were light years ahead of anyone else. By 2005 Mixed in key was available and I remember a mate bought a set of decks and was harmonic mixing within hours. It didn't mean he was any good but the barrier to entry was gone.

I've talked about this at length but the same thing happened with the music itself. It use to take someone musically talented, with arduous dedication in terms of time, and a financial commitment in the thousands to make all the hardware producer a finished track.

Even then, you then had to find someone willing to press and distribute it, and that was hard up front investment. If the track was shite, no one was going to press 500 copies at 2 quid each (cost) and piss away a grand. Sure, there were the odd idiots/bales with poor taste, but they got burned pretty quick and either disappeared or stopped making that mistake.

These things acted as a quality control filter meaning to get a track out there, you spent years of dedication, and months of work on maybe one track. I remember people like BT and PVD saying they spent anywhere from 4 months to a year on a single track. Chicane's far from the maddening Crowd took two years.

People spent time making tracks and making them well so they would see light of day (or better said, strobe of club).

Fast forward to around 2000 and suddenly you could make a track from start to finish on a somewhat shitty PC, a cracked copy of logic or cubase and less than 2 grands worth of kit. And you could put it out digitally on CD's or even online for free.

It meant labels had zero risks. Just churn the shit out and see if makes money. They could also hide the sales figures. It meant digital labels popped up everywhere and at the same time digital file sharing knocked the bottom out of paid for music.

By 2005 record stores were all but dead and any muppet with a laptop and ableton could churn out some crap track and with the right marketing or logo design, get a few sales.

The rest of the market adapted or died. Armin, Tiesto, BT etc, all changed their sound for the new ADD generation and cashed in.

That's not to say there aren't people putting out great music or DJ's playing great sets, it's just that there's so much more crap out there than ever before due to there basically being no barriers to entry.

I will however agree that in those early days the motives where somewhat different. People like Danny Rampling and Marshall Jefferson and Nicky Blackmarket and Orbital (etc etc) did it for the love and the scene. There was something purely enthusiastic about it and there wasn't these huge sums involved, Don't get me wrong, they made a living, but not like these Vegas idiots getting paid $300k per hour to play lowest common denominator drivel. People don;t realize that Sasha was getting 2-5 grand a night at a club, maybe more at a big rave and would only play 50 to 100 gigs a year tops. Night like the hac were an absolute money pit and a lot of clubs/promoters went bust due to it not really being about money and more about music. It's why you had the rise of the corporate clubs/brands like MOS and even Cream etc.

You can still find the music and clubs and DJ's that give a shit and are still making good music. It's just not the renaissance period where everyone was doing that which led to the sum being even more than the parts.

All of that is just a giant "back in the day" moan we've heard a thousand times before. It doesn't explain why there's loads of great house, techno, prog and so on being made in 2018, but trance is still overwhelmingly shit. It's got nothing to do with vinyl, decline of physical sales, DAWs, digital DJing or any of the rest of it. It's an affliction unique to one scene and the collective direction it has taken.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ RANN

+1

I'm with Rann on this one, solid stuff.

Its taken me years to think about why I love 90s trance and hate everything after so much. I think system nailed a lot in his descriptions but it doesn't answer the question of why this happened? In general, I think the trance that is still good is the stuff that has its roots firmly planted in House and Techno. Not surprisingly, these are the type of tracks you might hear a modern techno or house dj drop into a set. The stuff put out nowadays doesn't even sound anything like house or techno. Its something else entirely. To me, original trance music was stuff that was born directly out of the drug experience of taking MDMA and listening to electronic music. It was stuff that sounded amazing balls while rolling. It still sounds amazing balls if you are on MDMA. Very few house or techno tracks can even come close to achieving that OMG moment something like Age of love induces in people taking MDMA at a rave.

Why did trance end up sucking so bad? Because the type of guys who used to listen to trance in the 90s left trance for house and techno. Its no longer the music of ravers but now the music of people with bad taste and tourists. And because its fans nowadays almost don't care about a track having any roots in house and techno, quite the opposite exactly as they seem to like the garbage cheese and farty sounds, the makers of this crap keep making it worse and cheesier by the day.

A good analogy is progressive rock. I have always associated prog rock with overblown shitty music until a friend sent me some deeper early cuts I wasn't aware of. Just like trance there actually were guys making really good prog rock but the genre went off the rails at some point and turned into absolute rubbish.


To the OP I would recommend listening to something that is not trance exactly but has tons of trance vibes:

Sasha and Digweeds northern exposure is the single place to start my friend. After all these years I still think it kicks major ass. Both Northern Exposure 1 and 2 are absolute musts.
Sasha 1995 Essential mix from the que club is more epic house but also fabulous and ends on a progressive trance stormer. It still might be the single best live mix for guys on drugs I've ever heard.
Paul Van Dyks MFS mix is early trance and also really good.
Digweeds 95 essential mix and his bedrock one compilation are also really good.

sorry for the second post but just wanted to add a little.

To me both Progressive house and trance were genres that were directly influenced by and evolved with the drug experience. House and techno existed long before anyone was taking MDMA at raves. the breakdowns the buildups, the arpeggios, the use of soft female vocals, etc are all shit that sounds great when someone has popped a pill.

Even the idea of cheesiness is something that goes against the MDMA experience. Part of whats unique about taking that drug is how it tears down the walls you have built around you. What appears to be cheesiness to us sober can be downright emotional and moving to someone on MDMA. But remove the drug use and you got nothing but morons listening to some really cheesy shit.

But f me guys, there is still nothing like an old school trance rave. the amount of hugging random strangers is something I still miss. I probably miss that more than the music to be honest. House and techno as good as they are musically, will always have a much harder time getting everyone in the crowd to have that OMG I love everyone moment. Not that you can't get that but trance seemed to push nearly the entire crowd into that direction.

What's with all the misinformation on this board. Molly in clubs is as American as House and Techno. So much so that it was placed in schedule 1 in the 80's. Nonsense.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid What's with all the misinformation on this board. Molly in clubs is as American as House and Techno. So much so that it was placed in schedule 1 in the 80's. Nonsense.

didn't say it wasn't. But that trance and progressive were two genres in which the music was directly influenced by what the drug experience was like. When the first guys were making house and techno, no one was thinking about the MDMA experience. It just happened that by luck both genres went well with MDMA and next thing you know Raves were born. But the genres themselves were created before people were popping pills en masse. That isn't the same with Trance and Progressive House. In both cases, the genres came after the rave explosion and to me it would be unthinkable to imagine each being created if it was not for the fact that the guys making it were ravers who had taken MDMA while listening to house and techno at raves.

And trust me when I tell you this. MDMA was placed in schedule 1 in 85 and it had nothing to do with people taking it at raves since raves weren't even born yet. The reasons it was scheduled like this are very complicated but no one at the FDA at that time was even aware of the fact that people were taking it at raves because raves didn't exist yet.

I don't know about all that, it sounds like you're using the term "rave" just to carry your argument. Whether people were taking it at "raves" or "clubs" makes little difference, and they were, and it absolutely had something to do with why it was placed under schedule 1. To say MDMA was outlawed before it was a popular rec drug in America is a total lie.

quote:

Originally posted by wotyzoid I don't know about all that, it sounds like you're using the term "rave" just to carry your argument. Whether people were taking it at "raves" or "clubs" makes little difference, and they were, and it absolutely had something to do with why it was placed under schedule 1. To say MDMA was outlawed before it was a popular rec drug in America is a total lie.

the majority of early users were hippies and new age yuppies who had come into contact of it bc of therapy. did some random people take it at clubs or nights out? yes. but people were far more likely to be on cocaine or even lsd at a nightclub in those days. and none of the Detroit guys or even the early house pioneers were familiar with the drug when they created house and techno. Heck even Carl Craig who is part of the second wave apparently had never taken it before the 90s. The Detroit and Chicago guys were not making music for people on MDMA when they started. That is a huge difference between electronic music before the rave explosion in 87 and after. And trust me on knowing the story behind the FDA classification. Ive literally had this conversation with the people who were there when it got scheduled 1. The guys who fought against it etc bc they were using it for therapy. The reason it got banned in 85 has far more to do with the fact that right around 84 there started to be the first mention of the drug in the press about how the drug was becoming popular among Hippies, Yuppies, college students, and gay people. You know the exact type of people who were hated by the Reagan administration. The one exception to this is the Texas area where apparently by 83-84 it was already spreading in clubs all because of one guy, forgot his name, who is responsible for coining the term ecstasy btw. but after the schedule change, the market for it collapsed in the US and especially Texas. But what had happened is by 85 it had spread to ibiza through the hippy network. Its from ibiza that it eventually made it out to England and right about this time by sheer good luck and fortune, the early house and techno pioneers were making music that would go perfectly with the drug without knowing it. It was sheer dumb luck.

I think I am not explaining my point very well. When the early house and techno pioneers started making house and techno, none of them set out to make music for MDMA users. They made dance music. Not rave or drug music bc they didn't even know what MDMA was. After the explosion of MDMA in 87-88 suddenly producers started to tinker with music for the experience of the MDMA user specifically. Thats my main point. House and Techno would have been invented even without the drug. I don't think you can say the same for trance and progressive. House and techno might have been forgotten if it wasn't for MDMA but neither Frankie Knuckles or Juan Atkins set out to make music for MDMA users. That all changed. By the time you get to early trance and progressive in the early 90s, those producers started to tinker and make music with the MDMA user specifically in mind. Same for house and techno producers who also tinkered with both genres for the drug user in mind but by that point, house and techno as musical genres were already invented and defined. Just take Phuture Acid Tracks. One of the most infamous MDMA tracks from the first raves in 87. Not one of those guys even knew what MDMA was when they made that track. It just happened that what they made was exactly what guys on MDMA would go wild for.

When the FDA scheduled MDMA as class 1 in 85, it is estimated that only 500k doses of it were consumed total at that time. That is literally like nothing. 500k doses wordwide in a 15 year period is borderline nonexistent use. And the great majority of them were therapeutic use. To think it was some huge popular rec drug is to believe the garbage peddled by the Reagan administration that was fought against tough and nail by the docs on the ground at that time. Its schedule 1 classification is one of the most infamous cases in history bc the entire scientific board of experts disagreed with the scheduling and a primary driver of that was the fact that they didn't actually find evidence for wide spread recreational use and abuse. Without divulging too much about myself, I am a trained physician scientist who is more than familiar with this drug from a scientific perspective and public health perspective and I have had intimate conversations with people who were literally there when this happened.

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