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I think that having nothing after life WOULD in itself be hell. So, with that way of thinking there is a hell. Is there a heaven? If there is a hell, then there needs to be a heaven... maybe... Hopefully...

I believe in a God.

There is no reason that science couldn't have been created by a God.

oh well i forgive all of you even though you sound like a bunch of cult leaders... lol

Re: What happens when you die ?

YOU DIE

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Originally posted by FuzzyGreen I think that having nothing after life WOULD in itself be hell. So, with that way of thinking there is a hell. Is there a heaven? If there is a hell, then there needs to be a heaven... maybe... Hopefully... I believe in a God. There is no reason that science couldn't have been created by a God.

yes i think god created man and gave him ability to create science

I'm just interested at which point in evolution would you say that our kind gained a soul, and therefore, ability to go to heaven?

DJ Sammy knows all about heaven

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Originally posted by Slylee i dont think jesus had that in mind when he created man and woman with penises and vaginas. he made it so that we can create and enjoy it with our one partner or "soulmate"...but this is all pointless since u don't believe in any of that anyway...

SO god isn't all knowing?

I have had some major problems with christianity both on the rational and emotional levels

Emotionally i have never felt farther away from god than when i was in church. And that was when i believed in god. Everyone was always pulling the holyer than thou thing on me and others and it just didn't feel like a good place to be.

The whole idea that god doesn't control you life is impossible. The whole creation story shows that God created the entire universe. Also god is omnicious. The only way for God to know what is going to happen until the end of time would be if he created everything. Therefore you do not have a free will if you believe in god. God isn't controlling you like a puppet with strings but instead by creating the world.

Then if there is a god in the christian sense, god would have created people to go to hell and be eternally punished there. I wouldn't want to believe in a god like that anyways.

So ya you just rot and become worm food

god created science to disprove (give shit to) religion. horay

watch an ant (or a human if you are lucky enough) die (kill it yourself). the universe continues with one less insignificant living creature.

i too would love to have someone who cares for me. but this god fellow seems to kill, maim and torture alot. [old testament ppl]

like i said, i am not strictly religious...i don't go to church all the time...i am more spiritual...that does not make me a little insecure ****** who lacks belief in myself or has no value for my life now....those are pretty presumptuous comments.

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originally posted by StalkerElmo But in all religions they worship or praise their dominate "being".

Not true.Buddhism is a perfect example of this.It's about knowing yourself,and the fact that only you can be your own saviour.Buddha is only a role model for how this has been done before.

As for me,I've really stopped pondering on all these existential questions.There is no definite answer(since every religion has certain logical holes or other problems that puts its credibility in question),and I'll never get one,no matter how much I think about it.So I've just stopped thinking about it.What'll happen after death will happen,be it nothingness,hell,heaven or whatever.This is also the reason why I do not fear death.

Why don't we all just enjoy life while we still have it

yea i sort of do the same thing you do...i try not to really question what will happen...i just enjoy life and try to be a good person and whatever happens happens...but i do like to believe there is a heaven and that someone is watching over me

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Originally posted by Haak it's impossible to imagine nothing happening, try it, like imagine you aren't anywhere and don't excist there's gotta be something

EXACTLY, sometimes I can think about it for long enough to really freak myself out in the worst sense. It's actually very difficult to truly imagine not existing, try it.
I try really hard to never think about it, as it really upsets me, definitely my biggest fear.

So i agree, i can't get around that there has to be something! For some reason i think it's most logical to jump into another person, and not know it, like reincarnation i suppose.

I wish I could believe in heaven so bad! life would be a lot easier.

Just because you are afraid of something, it doesn't mean that it's not gonna happen. Sure it would be nice to go to heaven after you die, but it would also be nice if 10 great looking women come up to my door and give me large amount of money and keys of a ferarri. But it's not gonna happen, so I still have to sit alone here in my room with nothing smarter to do than write posts on the forum and cope with my Wartburg 1.3 which breaks down every month.

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EXACTLY, sometimes I can think about it for long enough to really freak myself out in the worst sense. It's actually very difficult to truly imagine not existing, try it.

Just imagine being unconcious, or asleep without dreaming, or under anesthesia...

Good point by Renegade The idea is life isn't suppose to be so complex, it's just people tend to make it harder than it is.

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I'm just interested at which point in evolution would you say that our kind gained a soul, and therefore, ability to go to heaven?

Ok first of all if you believe people have souls, then I doubt you would believe in evolution.

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Our emotions, in this sense, can be traced back to the days when we were still living in trees: were our ancient ancestors God's chosen children too then? Will we fraternise with neanderthals when we ascend to heaven?

Honestly. You should really understand a religion before making points against it. Christians don't believe in evolution, therefor nullifying your point.

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It would be nice to think that there is some spiritual part of ourselves seperate from the physical world, but, frankly, it isn't there.

How can you proove this? Another stupid point on your behalf.

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That's a pretty grim view of life isn't it? That this life is nothing more than a precursor to the next one? Sorry, but I value my life more than that.

What does this have to do with valuing life less? If anything it creates more value on one's life. Instead of living for no reason at all but to die and decompose, this life has a purpose.

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Why not? If it's safe and consensual then what's the problem?

The bible was written at a time when it was not safe. birth control was not invented yet.. STD's were around, and people wanted to not have random children with people, so it makes sense that it was a sin to have sex with anyone back then, it discourages people from it, and
minimizes the spread of disease.

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If who one is is determined by one's "soul", then why do people with degenerative brain diseases (i.e. alzheimers) or brain injuries becomes, quite simply, different people?

One is not determined by one's soul. One determine's one's own soul by how they act/think/etc. If someone get's brain damage, then that's unfortunate but they still have the ability to act and think.

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Originally posted by Illusion Several thousand years ago, a small tribe of ignorant near-savages wrote various collections of myths, wild tales, lies, and gibberish. Over the centuries, these stories were embroidered, garbled, mutilated, and torn into small pieces that were then repeatedly shuffled. Finally, this material was badly translated into several languages successively. The resultant text, creationists feel, is the best guide to the complex and technical subject of life.

thread ended rite here as far as i was concerned. Nicely put.

I like to think there is a heaven where when you die you are back with the one that you loved but who died before you. Do you understand what i mean? When I lost my grandma I was really sad but thinking that she is happy in heaven back with my grandpa that died few years before her, that makes me feel better. I hope such a place does exists...

i heard of these things called out of body experiances...you mind leaves your body and you can do what ever you think of...and i read something about it and they say thats what its like after you die...my friends said he had one and is gonan give me the book on how to do it when my other friend is done...i hope they work cuz it would be fun...but i think thats what happens you souls goes on and you do what you feel

Im agnostic, meaning I believe there is some higher force, but I accept that short of dying, theres really no way to know. For a long time I was a mainstream christian, looking back now I realize it was really only fear of hell that made me believe.

Really, religion is all about control. At least, most modernized religions are. Taking from the storys and morales you can find in a bible or koran or whatever can help you lead a more fulfilling life, no matter what your beliefs. For me, really, its all about the logics of it. What sounds more logical to you? That we tiny humans truly know nothing of god or how we came to be, or that in out of hundreds of millions of galaxies across unfathomable distances of space, here, in the corner of a galaxy way in the boondocks of the universe, on a tiny rock surrounded by nothing, exists the sole creations of an almighty god who loves you, made you, watches over you, but sends you to an enternity of torment for not believing in him.

Ill come post more in a bit, my monitor is dying

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Originally posted by DJ_kimberg Good point by Renegade The idea is life isn't suppose to be so complex, it's just people tend to make it harder than it is.

I disagree, I think life is very complex. And just because it is complex does not make it harder.

Just think about the science behind life. What are the chances that every chemical balance and molecular structure etc of things is just so, that what we have here is a world. A world that is set so perfectly that it can sustain life, with just the right amount of atomospheric gases that we breath, with a continuous supply of water, and just the right temperatures that keeps us from dying.

And what's the chance that some 8 billion people live here, each with their own individual genetic structure, each with a unique appearence. ANd that we have such sophisticated brains that we can develop such things as microprocessors, and computers like we're using now. Can you even fathom the workings of a computer? And humans created it.

I find it hard to believe that everything was coinsidence, and that we just happen to exist here for no purpose at all.

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Originally posted by DJ Chrono What does this have to do with valuing life less? If anything it creates more value on one's life. Instead of living for no reason at all but to die and decompose, this life has a purpose.

exactly.

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Originally posted by jploveparade DJ Sammy knows all about heaven

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Originally posted by tranceaddict991 i heard of these things called out of body experiances...you mind leaves your body and you can do what ever you think of...and i read something about it and they say thats what its like after you die...my friends said he had one and is gonan give me the book on how to do it when my other friend is done...i hope they work cuz it would be fun...but i think thats what happens you souls goes on and you do what you feel

Yes, OBE's. A proof of a soul. How else could you explain seeing your body from above? And it just so happens that these occur mainly during serious operations or near death experiences.

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Christians don't believe in evolution

Well, I think that Darwin and all of his successors were mostly christian. Beside, to not believe in evolution is like not believing the earth is round.

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birth control was not invented yet

What about sheep bladder and similar old fashion condoms?

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STD's were around

Like they're not now...

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If someone get's brain damage, then that's unfortunate but they still have the ability to act and think.

Depends on amount of brain damage, but often they lose those abilities as well. Besides, if we think with our brain, it is logical that we think differently depending on the state of our brain, and if it is damaged, that we may not think at all. To say otherwise would be to say that we don't think with our brain and therefore use it for nothing.

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that makes me feel better

Again, that is not a reason for it to exist. I agree that christians may be more at peace with their life and destiny, but that doesn't change the reality.

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i heard of these things called out of body experiances...

There is a perfectly good scientific explanation for it and that is that when a body is near death, the brain is out of oxygen, so it starts hallucinating. Same can be achieved with LSD and other psychoactive drugs.

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What are the chances that every chemical balance and molecular structure etc of things is just so, that what we have here is a world. A world that is set so perfectly that it can sustain life, with just the right amount of atomospheric gases that we breath, with a continuous supply of water, and just the right temperatures that keeps us from dying.

Out of all the worlds in the universe, it is quite possible that at least one, although probably many, have environment suitable for life of the type as we know it. And air isn't required for life as much as I know. For all we know if the earth atmosphere were carbon dioxide, we might have evolved differently so that we would breathe that instead of oxygen. Trees do.

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And what's the chance that some 8 billion people live here, each with their own individual genetic structure, each with a unique appearence. ANd that we have such sophisticated brains that we can develop such things as microprocessors, and computers like we're using now. Can you even fathom the workings of a computer? And humans created it.

It's 6 billion. Individual genetic structure varies very little between humans, and it is not such a weird thing, look at all the animals with all their different DNAs. Considering number of molecules in a DNA sequence, the number of permutations is practically infinite. All evolution strives towards smarter individuals with larger brains. They usually manage to survive better.
And what's your point with computers? No individual created a current computer, it is a process where each new individual slightly improves the situation he found. Like evolution, in a way.

what happens? you move up the energetic ladder if you're ready. if not, you're sent back on another reincarnation cycle.

there are many other levels of existance in this world, if you know what i mean. don't feel like elaborating. it's all the esoteric stuff.

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