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| Originally posted by Yoepus And who are you to say that our president is an ape? Remember Canadains, are shields for saddam! |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King How the fuck did he win the presidency |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Its one thing to say A person is an ape.... and its another thing, as a president, proclaiming nations as evil.... He is no more intelligent than a bonobo chimp... and im not the only one who thinks that. Do you think George Bush deserves the respect of the global intellect? It would be a sad day if he does. How the fuck did he win the presidency |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus look my point was just at how dumb of an argument you made. The USA can make a matter of chosing who is evil with a matter of opinion. I can do the exact same thing, and so can you. The government as a matter of opinion considers a certain 3 countries in this world part of an axis of evil. They are as much free to do this, as your matter of opinion allows to call Bush a bonobo chimp, and part of an animal kingdom usually not associated with humans. Neither case means the opinions are correct, but none the less both you and the USA government can express these opinions as they wish. Furthermore, I believe the USA government backs up its opinion with more reasoning, logic, and proof, then your current opinion. But, well thats just my opinion. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King You just dont call nations evil! |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King And you talk as if this Axis of evil actually exists..LOOOOL |
I do believe the Axis of Evil exist, for the fact that the American government, which is the world's most powerful country today, says it exists. Be this true, right or wrong, does not change the fact of the focus of the US government and its views of these countries.
I don't understand why you all seem to laugh your hearts out like doped individuals at this notion. Oh wait yes I do.
axis of evil means countries that are evil(duh) and are planning together to do evil evil things... hehehe never heard of Saddam and his crew meeting with the NK crew to take on the world... hahaha
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| Originally posted by Yoepus I do believe the Axis of Evil exist, for the fact that the American government, which is the world's most powerful country today, says it exists. Be this true, right or wrong, does not change the fact of the focus of the US government and its views of these countries. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King Oh yeah.. I forgot.... anything the US government says is the truth..Duh.. im so stupid.. From now on.. i will beleive everything george bush says... becuase he's not evil.. he is smart....YAAAAAAAAAAAAY For gods sake Yeopus... read what you just wrote! |
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| Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 Now about history of Iran and Iraq...Why did it started? Well, in 1953 Iranian shah (i don't know what's the english term for it, but the original term sounds like this) with help from CIA has overthrown Mossadeghs nationalist regime. They did it because Mossadegh nationalised British Petroleum company in Iran. As shah was supported by british and american secret services, he repayed that debt by giving the US and Britain exclusive rights for it's oil. Well, Iran started to get a lot of money from this oil, and decidet to turn to nuclear energy. There was a plan of making 20 reactors by 1995, which would make Iran almost completely independent of it's oil. Iran was very serious about it and already had contracts with the european manufacturers of nuclear reactors. Pakistan at that time also tried to turn to nuclear energy, but CIA started a revolution there which led to the hanging of Bhutto, the leader of Pakistan at that time. The US wasn't happy about it at all, of course.Also at that time, the british wanted Iran to sign an agreement that for the next 25 years, Britain would be the only country to get their oil. Iran, ofcourse wanted to export oil not only to US and Britain, but to other european countries as well. The british then started to buy less oil than Iran manufactured, and that in turn started an economic crisis in iran. Radical islamic elements with support from CIA started to bring unrest in the country. At the same time they talked shah into being more represive of the people, which made more and more people angry. The result was an islamic revolution in 1978, whose fundamentalist leader Homeini were unable to continue the nuclear program. Oil prices skyrocketed and brought many countries on the verge of being bankrupt. The reason for this was to stop the world toward progressing to nuclear energy, which would make them independent on the US and Britain controlled oil reserves. Additionaly at that same time a nuclear incident in Harrisburg appeared, and the report about it on 3.8.1973 stated sabotage or intentional carelessness as the reasons of the accident. |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus Furthermore I personally believe it is also true. These three nations do co-operate in many ways, altough I wouldn't consider it a strong and hardend alliance between the three parties. Yet Iraq and Iran both directly support terrorists and co-operate with each other to this end. And North Korea further is helping both Iraq and Iran in their pursuit for their own nuclear weapons, and sells them also conventional arms as well. My last point is not based on any hard evidence, and therefore can be called a conspiracy. But I think it is this conspiracy that the US government also believes. |
the world is waking up, faster than you believe... its all a matter of time.
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| Originally posted by ahlamalek the world is waking up, faster than you believe... its all a matter of time. |
if he ever does that, he will unleash the wrath of the whole world, not only arab and muslim countries... nuking is not accepted nowadays. except maybe those crazy zionists
You know sometimes I think to myself how many people have to suffer or die so that something could be done to stop it.Or why do innocent have to die in a country(Iraq) because some idiot(Bush) said Saddam wanted to kill his father??soo hey lets go bomb the country.
and whats with this whole changing the regime in Iraq??I really dont think the Iraqi people want a country like U.S. to run their country,I mean I sure dont want that happen in my country.
lets not forget that there is no such thing as a perfect government,and I sure dont believe that U.S. is perfect in any way!!so Why pin point Iraq??ooh so u gonna say well Saddam kills his own people with WOMD,mmmm lets see how they got it first,mmmm from U.S. maybe??if Saddam is a mad man, why was the U.S. guv working with him when they killed my people Using Bio,chemical weapons??
what??Saddam wasnt mad beofore,and now he is??I dont think so.
ooh and another intresting thing I noticed,these days you absolutly hear nothing about Afghanistan,unless a U.S. troop dies or something.I wonder why??ooh and why are they still there??Dont tell me they are still looking for Bin Laden, because thats just bullshit.WAKE UP THE GUY IS GONE.so what is really U.S up to there??peace keeping??rebuilding Afghanistan??or perhaps they're just there to stick their nose in eveyones business.
I gotta tell you guys Iam really scared for my country.I mean look at whats going on around there:
there are American troops in Turkey,Afghanistan,Saudi Arabia,Kuwait,Iraq(soon)and all over persian gulf.god help us.. 
When I think about the amount of money U.S. spends in millatery makes me so sick and angry,if they could spend that money in a more useful way like Kyoto the world will be a better place for the next generation.But unfortunatly I know that wont happen.
How will this world come an end I ask myslef??I think us humans will destroy ourselves,and as long as we have people like Bush running the world, that sad reality will happen sooner that we can Imagine!!
it is year 2003,and I pray only one thing to god, and thats peace all over the world.
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| Originally posted by Yoepus What I was getting to that the axis of evil is a fact. Its a fact because it was created by the US government, and if its wrong, right, or what not, its still a fact and attitude created by the US government. |
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Furthermore I personally believe it is also true. These three nations do co-operate in many ways, altough I wouldn't consider it a strong and hardend alliance between the three parties. Yet Iraq and Iran both directly support terrorists and co-operate with each other to this end. And North Korea further is helping both Iraq and Iran in their pursuit for their own nuclear weapons, and sells them also conventional arms as well. My last point is not based on any hard evidence, and therefore can be called a conspiracy. But I think it is this conspiracy that the US government also believes. |
Another thought provoking and enlightening article.
Operation Provoke War
by Maria Tomchick
In recent weeks, the Bush administration has stepped up efforts to destabilize the Iraqi government, while aggressively deploying troops and ships in a manner that could provoke an attack from Iraq � and provide an excuse to start a war.
Over the weekend of December 14 to 16, the U.S. hosted a conference in London of Iraqi exiled opposition groups. The 300 delegates, closely monitored by U.S. diplomats and advisors, chose a council of 65 people to function as a liaison between the U.S. and the Iraqi people after Saddam Hussein is deposed. The conference was led by U.S. Special Envoy Zalmay Khalilzad, who shepherded the Afghani conference in Bonn that set up the new government in Kabul. Clearly, the Bush administration is gearing up to do in Iraq what they've already done in Afghanistan (never mind that the UN inspectors haven't finished their job yet).
The Pentagon, meanwhile, has set up a special radio station to broadcast anti-Saddam propaganda to the Iraqi people. The station went on the air December 12, after U.S. planes dropped half a million leaflets over Iraq with the name of the station and the five frequencies where it can be heard. Between bursts of Arabic music, the station intones: "People of Iraq .... the amount of money Saddam spends on himself in one day would be more than enough to feed a family for one year." The station also directs messages at the Iraqi military in an effort to spur a military coup.
The CIA has been up to its own dirty tricks, too. Earlier this year, Congress and the Bush administration allocated $200 million to the CIA to "fight the War on Terrorism." The CIA has been using a lot of that money in Iraq, giving sacks of cash to tribal leaders in rural areas near Baghdad, in an effort to buy the loyalty of Sunni tribal leaders who have backed Saddam Hussein in the past. Of course, the CIA is assiduously avoiding the Shiite tribes in southern Iraq, who haven't forgotten how the CIA sold them out after the Gulf War, promising to help them rise up and overthrow Saddam, but then abandoning them to be massacred.
Turkish TV has also reported the movement of U.S. trucks with supplies into northern Kurdish regions of Iraq. The U.S. supported the Kurds soon after the Gulf War by establishing the Northern No-Fly Zone, which prevented Saddam from bombing rebellious Kurdish factions. But U.S. support goes far beyond that: supplies are now being moved into the Kurdish regions, and U.S. personnel are helping to train Kurdish rebels, while scouting the best sites for landing strips and operational bases for the upcoming war.
In addition, the CIA and the Pentagon are recruiting Kurds and exiled Iraqis to serve (ostensibly) as interpreters, guides, and support staff for an invasion. Hungary has agreed to host a new $9 million training facility for some 3,000 Iraqi exiles. Some of these men may be trained to fight. While the Pentagon has fiercely denied that any weapons training will be done, they haven't explained, however, why the training has to be done in Hungary and not on U.S. soil. Considering that the Pentagon and CIA have kept captured Al Qaeda and Taliban fighters isolated at "secret" bases in foreign countries to avoid scrutiny by the Red Cross, the U.N., and human rights advocates, the fact that Iraqi exiles will be trained in an Eastern European country is suspicious, to say the least.
In the meantime, U.S. troops and warships are being deployed in a way that could draw Iraqi fire. Some 12,000 U.S. troops have been conducting long-running military exercises in Kuwait; over the Christmas holiday, they spent 5 days engaged in live-fire exercises just a few miles from the border with Iraq. At the same time, U.S. and British warships participating in the sanctions blockade have become more aggressive in recent weeks, moving into Iraqi territorial waters, even into the mouth of Khor Abd Allah estuary. The danger here is that a warship may collide with an Iraqi mine or meet an Iraqi vessel and begin a shooting war � which may be just the excuse the Bush administration needs in order to start an all-out war.
Certainly, Bush has quietly given the order to step up the bombing campaign over the no-fly zones. In the past, U.S. planes targeted only Iraqi radar and anti-aircraft weaponry. But now the pilots are "being given a more 'meaningful' list of targets," according to Reuters reporter Peter Graff. The list includes command bunkers, communications equipment, and unspecified "other targets" (presumably infrastructure or military posts that would be bombed in the upcoming war). In addition, the planes are hitting their targets more frequently and with heavier bombs.
And so the air war has already begun, on the sly, ramping up slowly so no one will notice right away. This is, after all, the preferred modus operandi for the Bush administration. The U.S. press has largely overlooked the increased bombing in favor of printing quotes from Donald Rumsfeld and Colin Powell about the Iraqi weapons declaration, and Dick Cheney's reassurances that the U.S. is not interested in overthrowing Saddam.
But U.S. actions are telling a different story. Just two days after Christmas, George Bush called up 2 aircraft carrier battle groups, 2 amphibious assault teams, and several dozen Air Force jets to serve in the Gulf � an additional 25,000 troops to add to the 50,000 U.S. personnel already there. The timing of his order is in keeping with Bush administration moves to hide the pace and details of its war planning from both the U.S. public and the international community.
Colin Powell, asked by an AP reporter about current U.S. efforts to oust Saddam Hussein, replied: "It remains our policy to change the regime until such time as the regime changes itself." Indeed.
The Bush administration is deeply involved in destabilizing the Iraqi government. In effect, the air war has already begun, in secret, without a formal declaration and without a vote from the U.N. Security Council. And the U.S. is attempting to spark a ground war with its provocative military exercises and violations of Iraqi territory.
Meanwhile, the only English-language press coverage has been in the form of wire service articles that U.S. newspapers are largely ignoring. Without critical media coverage here in the U.S., the Bush administration is free to play out its hand, which is intended to spark a military response from Iraq that will make it easy to shift U.S. opinion in favor of a ground war. It could be the Gulf of Tonkin, all over again
This is a great article and scary and disturbing in the same time, and since alot of people dont know that all this is happening as we speak makes it even more scary.
God help all the Iraqi people.
once again thanks cyros king for the article.
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer This is a great article and scary and disturbing in the same time, and since alot of people dont know that all this is happening as we speak makes it even more scary. God help all the Iraqi people. once again thanks cyros king for the article. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King No problem It is very scary how many things are kept away from the airwaves in North America....its all part of a propaganda scheme that is following a specific agenda. Thank god for the Internet these days. |
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| Originally posted by Cyrus King I think you do not know the definition of FACT. |
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| So you therefor admit you believe in illogical conspiracies? How come you think these countries enforce terrrorism..... How has Iran... being very quiet and minding its own business encourage terrorism.... you beleive things without educating yourself first. Yoepus...stop being ignorant. |
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| Originally posted by hardcore trancer I wonder what will their excuse is gonna be to attack us??WOMD??terrorism??threat to Isreal or American people?? |
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From Amnesty International: "In an unprecedented clampdown on freedom of expression and association, at least 34 journalists, writers and human rights defenders were questioned, detained and tried; some were tortured. At least 12 were imprisoned, usually after unfair trials." "Deeply flawed trial procedures, especially in Revolutionary Courts and the Special Court for the Clergy, continued." "Torture and ill-treatment, including the judicial punishments of flogging and amputation, continued." http://www.web.amnesty.org/web/ar20...AN?OpenDocument |
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From Human Rights Watch: "Earlier, on January 30, the Supreme Court rejected the appeals against conviction of ten members of the minority Jewish community in Shiraz who had been sentenced to prison terms in 2000 for allegedly maintaining contacts with Israel, considered a hostile foreign power. None of the group were released." "Law enforcement authorities made increased use of public executions and corporal punishment, often after only cursory trial proceedings." "The independent press, before it was closed down in mid-2000, had sought to expose the connections between certain state institutions and the clandestine underworld of death squads and enforcers" http://www.hrw.org/wr2k2/mena3.html |
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| Originally posted by Izzy yes to all of above. firstly someone posted the cnn link showing the 'secret' nuclear plants iran has. in general i want to know your impression, do you personally belive iran is NOT trying to seek a nuclear warhead? on what basis? anyways iran is not a clean country by any chance ... those who fail to see it are only blinding themselves iran sold illegal contrabands, through the Karine A http://www.mfa.gov.il/mfa/go.asp?MFAH0l0k0 http://www.ict.org.il/articles/arti...m?articleid=421 theres tons more evidence i can cite (from CIA and IDF) directly linking the government to terrorist orginizations (mainly hezbollah, but also factions in palestine) but i imagine you would just off shoot it as conspiracy junk. |
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| Originally posted by Yoepus I think you don't. Go look up the TERM "creation of fact(s)". It is creating a fact by wanting to make it fact. Simple no? An example; In Kosovo, a serbian provience. Ethnic Albanians made it a fact that the provience be demographically skewed of their own ethnicity over Serbian ethnicity which was the majority before the war. Similarly, it was the creation of 'facts' on the ground that Israel made new settlements and intergrated Jerusalem after the 1967 war. Or that Nasser stoped the freedom of navigation in the straights of tehran to Israeli shipping before the 1967 war. You asked me a question, no I do not admit I believe in illogical conspiracies. I believe in logical ones Now don't tell me that I am ignorant or unreasonable for this belief, espeically when you latter go on posting a conspiratorial article of your own. My 'conspriacy' is not far fetched. Iran IS a supporter of terrorism. This is a fact. Indeed, Iran is the #1 supporter of Hezbullah a recongnized terrorist group that acts against western targets. Also what is known is that Hezbullah finances and equipement are usually transfered via Iraq to Syria and then Lebanon from Iran. From here I alluded to an alliance they might have. As Iran and Iraq usually do not co-operate on all terms. Iran also sent the infamous 'karine A' shipment to the Palestinian Authorithy last spring. Aside from that Iran is developing a nuclear weapons program with the aid of the Russians and North Koreans. This is also well established, even in mainstream media. So here, this is how the 'ignorant' me believes that the "quiet and minding its own business Iran", might, just have say umm a little, tad of involvement in terrorism? Ya i know blatently stupid huh? Grow up. |
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| Originally posted by Izzy yes to all of above. firstly someone posted the cnn link showing the 'secret' nuclear plants iran has. in general i want to know your impression, do you personally belive iran is NOT trying to seek a nuclear warhead? on what basis? anyways iran is not a clean country by any chance ... those who fail to see it are only blinding themselves |
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