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-- Commercialization of Electronica?
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trance is always misunderstood as a boring 1 beat music...
why people is listening is that it is fast,catchy and following the trend.
to me,trance is always sacred to tranceaddictS!
the problem is most of you take music too seriously
(no wonder with all the cliched addiction/lifestyle electronica quotes that go around)
be cool muthafucka's, listen to what's good.
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| Originally posted by sifntj0r the problem is most of you take music too seriously (no wonder with all the cliched addiction/lifestyle electronica quotes that go around) be cool muthafucka's, listen to what's good. |
The problem with people who are visiting parties just to be trendy is that they're gonna become influence which will want more commercial tunes, and that in turn will make it seem like the general trance population wants to hear more commercial tunes.
Besides, those guys are generally dumbasses going there just to fight or get high or get girls or any combination of those.
On the other hand, trance being commercial may attract more people to the scene. I myself started listening trance by first listening to commercial stuff, than eurodance, and slowly moved to trance. Mainly because I listened to what was available.
So there are both pros and cons of the commercialization...
I do hope that the scene will split in two, commercial trance and real trance, so that the commercial trance will become available to everyone, for those who really like it, there will always be real trance, with good crowd, and for those who don't they won't go to real trance parties, but will stay with commercial stuff.
Okay...here we go...ANOTHER thread abuot how trance has become commercialized. Some people think it is, some people think it's not. But there's nothign we can do about it either way!If DJs truly like the music, they'll be true to their fans, and true to what they've done in the past. And why not let i become commercialized?? Maybe it'll let more people enjoy it. And what's wrong with that? Sorry, you can't all keep it underground and solely to yourselves. people find out about pretty much everything, eventually. Ans who knows> maybe, with more fans, the music may become better. More competitions among DJs may produce more music in the long run! And JUST because it becmone "commercialzed" doesn't necessarily mean that the music become cheesy and such! There's already producers and DJs that want money and cater to whoever will give them the most. Thats a given. You all label anything slightly "cheesy" as "commercialized", but we couldn't even all agree on what cheesy MEANS! 
Come on, get over it. Nothing you can do about people finding out about trance. And if you ask me, I think maybe it'll be a good thing! 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Commercialization of Electronica?
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| Originally posted by mndeg uh, classical music requires an attention span. |
this commercialisation argument again.. hehe.. i dont think trance is any more commercial now than it was 3 years ago. yes, theres ppl like dj sammy, ian van dahl, scooter etc, who all put a bad name on trance due to its shiteness, but at the same time this counteracts commercialisation because maybe the ppl u r scared of dont ever listen to REAL trance. REAL trance is still on the underground, still being playing where it matters by the people that matter. and thats all that matters
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| Originally posted by TiestoInTheMix i guess it does have something to do with self-image. how many of us want to be associated with the stereotype of the close-minded and ignorant progressive fans? |
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| Originally posted by Maxim303 where did you get this "stereotype" of a progressive listener? progressive is all about acceptance, open-mindednes, and integrating fresh sounds and influences. wow, you talk about the mainstream messing things up, but what does it show when one of "our own" is talking so much out his ass? |
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I don't know why but lots of ppl who listen to "progressive" are acting really ignorant and narrow minded. It's pretty sad. Juz' ignore em and listen to the kind of music u enjoy! |
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Now what I hate is when prog/house fans say "all trance is a commercial piece of shite". It's not. Simple. There is good and bad trance. As there is good and bad house. |
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I think your friend is a wanker, typical progressive fan sadly, just cos they listen to that they believe that they're a level above us just because we don't, but we don't have to listen to what they say, and its bollocks thinking that u do, just tell them to stfu cos it's not a view a lot of us share |
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5. The reason I find progheads abnoxious is because they think that the rest of music is "cheese"... Progheads, perhaps you can clear it up for me - what kind of shit you're on when you listen to 8 hours of John Dickweed??? I find him unbearable... he's a total bore, totaly uncommunicative with a crowd, with tracks that.... hell, I can't even explain it... I love a prog track here and there but for crying out loud - unless you're waisted on some wacked up shit, I can't imagine listening to this shit for more than 15minutes. |
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I'm not going to argue with you about progressive music, because from what I see, you're as closed-minded to progressive as some progressive people are to trance. I love both, and the lack of respect in these forums saddens me  |
i think commercialization of trance has the potential to be a great thing...
people who listen to cheese trance and actually enjoy it will try to search for trance with more substance to it...
let's put it this way...
what is the first dance/trance/house track you've ever listened to?
chances are, it was probably cheese... and you probably liked it so much that you decided to search for something more to trance... and that's probably what brought so many of you guys to the underground trance scene...
the thing is there will always be a loyal group of underground fans and DJ's to keep the underground scene going...
just look at hip hop, even though there's so much of the "Nelly" and "Eminem" stuff going on, there is still a loyal group of underground hip-hop fans and DJ's that hate all the commercialized rap...
if you don't like trance being commercialized, then fine... don't listen to it... stick with what you like and let the 12 year old teenage girls listen to DJ Sammy and Alice Deejay...
and finally, be tolerant to other people and their musical tastes... too many times i've seen on TA people mouthing off others who like different musical tastes... hate the music, not the people...
The way I see all this "commericialization" business is... known DJ's like Paul Oakenfold, Tiesto, PvD are pushing the Electronica ballot forward to all music listeners and they are giving Electronica a chance. Of the 100 or so times Ive been asked "what kinda music do you listen to" 80% of the time no one knows what Progressive House is and 50% dont know what Trance is. But when you beat a drum long and loud and enough like the Pvd Tiesto and Oakie have been doing, people start to hear it and either come around it and join in on the firedance or tell you to stfu, these days theyre joining. Electronica is simply evolving into a popular genre, its about moving forward isnt it? We are moving forward so it only fits and is inevitable for Electronica to become more commercial. When you have Deep Dish being asked to remix Madonna and Justin Timberlake...its Electronica moving forward. So I dont get all the debate about it, Electronica producers are the most underpaid in the business...its just time that more ears are tuning in and respect and recognition is finally being given. 
Since this has been resurrected from the second page, I'll quote something from that other thread I accidentally found, which, basically, talks about the same problem, only it's a better worded by a man who's more educated on the subject. There's a direct parallel between Alex Garland's "The Beach" and this.
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| Originally posted by skywarp on Oct-20-2000 Found this on a local messageboard, it is a very interesting chunk of text ... ************************************** Every scene/system/ideology is like a ripple in a pond. Originally it is big and powerful, and its original members are the most devouted to it. I'll use Christianity as a prime example. A great idea, by the way, and one that was probably best understood by the original Man himself and his 12 associates. However, like every system, the more converts it wins over and the bigger it gets, the less of an impact is had on each new recruit. Like the ripple, the movement gets weaker and weaker, and more distorted, changed, altered, and further from its original ideals, as it gets bigger. Christianity is a religion so fucked, that within 1000 years it had somehow grown to betray the ideals that it originally stood for. In the same sense is rave culture. Originally a haven for moderately intelligent people looking for an alternative form of entertainment, now raves are riding the "popularity" bandwagon (they have for quite sometime--3 years, I'd say), and as such, its ripple has gotten REALLY big and distorted, and far from what it originally stood out to strive. Nowadays, who knows why people go to raves anymore. Who knows if they even like the music. Who knows if they even understand the ideals that this culture upholds (if it even holds them anymore). Who knows if they even care. The impact of this culture is not felt as strongly among them as it did among people who started the scene, or even joined it 5 years ago, when the ripple was smaller and much stronger. Newbies in the scene back then COULD be welcomed and appreciated because of two factors: 1) There wasn't very many of them, and thus it was possible to "train" them, so to speak, in the ideals of the neo-culture, thus keeping the ripple strong and the ideals pure, or..... 2) The scene wasn't advertised as much. Mainstream Society didn't even know it existed, far less considered what to do with it. Therefore, the newbies came to the scene because they WANTED to. They sought the scene out because it was something they liked, something they needed and enjoyed. Thus, they didn't want to be ostracised so quickly in a scene that they wanted to be apart of, so they were often polite, curteous, intelligent, resourceful, sensible and smart. They respected the scene and took care of it, and vice versa. Now, newcomers are often scorned and ridiculed by the older ravers instead of taught and cared for because of the same two factors, reversed: 1) There's too many of them. It's simply not possible anymore for the veterans to teach them "the ways of the scene" so to speak when they practically outnumber all the oldskoolers. In fact, I'm willing to guesstimate that right now, on this continent, there are more kids in their first year of partying than there all the older-than-first-year party kids combined. And with the influx of newbies becomes an influx of naivette, and a generation of older partykids/DJs/Promoters who simply don't care about the new kids because they don't know and respect "the ways of the scene", and so have elected to exploit them, instead. ("well, if these kids wanna go to a rave so bad but don't know what it's all about, who cares about them. Let's charge $70 at the door. They'll pay it. They're stupid, ignorant neophytes. Children of middle-class parents. With lots of money. They don't know what a rave is anyway, they'll eat whatever we give them so long as its got a simple beat and its loaded with drugs"). As a result, the new partykids grow up in the scene with this kind of party behavior, which they turn around and somewhat construe the scene and mishapened it to suit the evolving, exploiting "paradigm" (god, I hate that word). The ripple has thus gotten very big, very weak, and........ 2) The scene is being advertised too much. Everyone and their dog has heard of raves, and most larger American cities have gone some way to legislating against them (or regulating in favor of them, whichever's more anal). The kids no longer have to find the scene--it's practically advertised on tv. Instead of them seeking IT out, looking for a more enhanced, livelier experience, IT comes to them...and since individuals only really respect ideals that they come to of their own accord, they aren't about to respect one that was handed to them in a mall or on a bus that they did not give clear indication that they wanted it in the first place. Because of this, it's no longer a sense of adventure or experience to go to a rave--complete with its own culture, ideals, etc--anymore. Since raves are mimicking most highschool hallways anyways, its not like the scene feels or acts any different than an average concert or school pep rally. And the new kids are immersed in this fractured culture. So OF COURSE they aren't going to care about the scene, if they do think of it as a "scene" at all. For the most part they're annoying, drug addled, stupid, snarling little bitches (the Lowest Common Denominator of society has caught up with rave culture), and the people who already are here can't teach them a thing, because they refuse to listen. They disrespect this scene and don't care about it, and the scene is really beginning to reflect that. I don't mind newbies coming into the scene, so long as they got a good head on their shoulders and really appreciate this culture for what it is. But it's got to start with the culture. Not the drugs, not the clothes, not the image...not even the music. The culture is what makes this happen. The culture is why a kajillion kids came out of nowhere and descended upon a cabbage patch last weekend and chewed it up with their stomping, dancing little shoes. Maybe I'm just old. Maybe I'm just jaded. Maybe I'm just a cynical, sadistic bastard. But I don't care. I like to see this scene smarten up, but from the looks of it, it doesn't show any signs of improvement any time soon. I'd be the first to admit that I wasn't too bright when I started up in this scene either, but at least I paid attention. I looked. I learned. I listened. I did many things I think a lot of newbies today should do. I didn't just go to a party with a select circle of friends, dance all night with them, and go home in the morning, having not even batted an eye to a stranger all night. I made friends. Lots of them. Part of the early appeal was that I could walk into a rave all by myself, alone, not knowing anybody, and make like 200 insta friends over the course of the night (I even did it in a foreign city--Edmonton--miles from anyone who even looked remotely familiar). And this was in the days before Loungex. I wonder how many kids today have the guts to do that--go to a rave by themselves. Perhaps our scene would be a hell of a lot better off if they did. **************** First thing I have to say is: Go to a party by yourself. You meet so many people that way. I went to Liquid Summer by myself, an I'd met people before I even got to the venue. I met people on the bus, in the line, and of course, in the party. Some of the people I met there are the people I go to parties with now. Its amazing what happens when you don't have to spend half the night looking for your friends. There are a lot of similarities between the Calgary Scene and the West Coast scene. The state of the scene post is absolutely correct. In Vancouver, and hopefully here soon, the scene is splitting between the mainstream massive scene, with 40 dollar parties in mega venues with thousands of people, and the smaller, more personal scene. Parties with real vibe. Parties similar to Escape. Parties with a couple of hundred people out to have a good time, not out so that they can tell their friends at school that 'they went to a rave'. All I can say is that I won't be going to any parties that are advertized in newspapers. Oh, wait Liquid summer was in FFWD. The party coming up at Max Bell (which is advertized all over the place) wont be that good because it won't have vibe, only poser-vibe. It won't have much character. I'm not advocating that you don't go to it, I'm just saying that there are better things than not being able to find your friends in a group of 2500 less than 'rave-friendly' people. STU ++++++++++++ And now the conclusion to what I think has happened. When the by-law was instated, there were 5 options for parties... 1. Hold a large rave in a sanctioned venue with paid security and cops and all that fun stuff. (max bell parties) 2. Hold a smaller party (less than 250 people) (eden) 3. Have parties out of city limits (Aurora) 4. Hold illegal raves (risky) 5. Have after-hours venues (sanctuary) The by-law pretty much ruled out the option of mid-sized parties... Promoters can't pay for security and police and medics if they have only 500 people. Thus the minimum size of a sanctioned party is more than about 800 people. I may be wrong w/ the numbers. In order for the promoters to get as many people as possible at these parties, they have to advertise everywhere, and by advertising everywhere, a lot of 'hoochies', 'bar-stars' and other 'vibe non-contributers' will attend the parties. Some people don't want this kind of party, and will choose to go to smaller, 'tighter' parties. So, in conclusion... There will be 'big mainstream' parties, that everyone and their hoochie-boots will go to, and there will be smaller parties. The smaller parties aren't underground really, they are under 250 people. I don't know about you, but I'd rather go to a smaller party to hear great local talent, than go to a huge party where the headliner doesn't give a shit because he's in a 'hick town' in Canada. That's my commentary. STU. (the guy with cheetah fun-fur pants) By the way... If you want to talk to me, I'll be at Fright Night, and I'll be dressed as a cop. Hehe. |
That was interesting, but Im still torn. I just want the music to be apreciated to its fullest instead of being a back drop at a party. However, its a moot point because people will do what people will do. We just gotta keep the hope alive.
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