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-- the Iraki war is inevitable...
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quote:

Originally posted by guetag Read This Smart guy U.N. Security Council Resolution 688 (5 April 1991) condemned Saddam Hussein�s repression of the Iraqi civilian population. The resolution also requires Saddam Hussein to end his repression of the Iraqi people and to allow immediate access to international humanitarian organizations to help those in need of assistance.

Did they lift trading sanctions to allow him to do this? erm no

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Saddam Hussein has repeatedly violated these provisions and has expanded his violence against women and children, continued his horrific torture and execution of innocent Iraqis.

So do many countries in the middle east, but they all sell Uncle Sam their Oil so they turn a blind eye

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Saddam has continued to violate the basic human rights of the Iraqi people and has continued to control all sources of information (including the killing of over 500 journalists in the past decade).

North Korea, Singapore, Saudi Arabia, Iran, and countless other countries do this as well, do the Allies repeatedly bomb their borders?? think you know the answer

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Saddam has also harassed humanitarian aid workers, expanded his crimes against Muslims, has withheld food from families that offer their children to his regime and has continued to subject Iraqis to unfair imprisonment.

Amnesty International say one of their biggest enemies is the chief of Los Angeles police department (according to the promotional video we were shown when I was at college), due to the improper practices that take place when people are imprisoned, and the harrassment amnesty international members recieve when they complain, yet again, does anyone care about that? you guessed it....

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The government of Iraq uses military force to repress civilian populations throughout the county, resulting in the deaths of thousands and the destruction of entire villages.

So does Israel

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Iraq has refused to allow the U.N.�s special Rapporteur for human rights to return to Iraq since his first visit in 1992. It has also refused to allow the stationing of human rights monitors as required by the U.N. resolution.

wasn't he the one that was accused of Spying?, and there was proof he was reporting to American intelligence.....

quote:

Iraqi authorities routinely practice extrajudicial summary or arbitrary executions throughout the country. The total number of prisoners that have been executed in the past five years runs into thousands, including hundreds of arbitrary executions in the last months of 1998 at Abu Gharib and Radwaniyah prisons near Baghdad.

You're not going to see me arguing that thats a good thing, but Iraq aren't the only country to have an improper judicial system

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In the 1970�s and 1980�s, the Iraqi regime destroyed over 300 Kurdish villages. The destruction of Kurdish and Turkomen homes is still going on in Iraqi-controlled areas of northern Iraq.

with weapons supplied by the Americans, who, I hasten to add, knew what the Iraqi's were doing!

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In northern Iraq the government is continuing its campaign of forcibly deporting Kurdish and Turkomen families to southern governments. As a result, approximately 900,000 citizens are internally displaced throughout Iraq.

Where else does that kind of thing happen.....hmmmmm.......

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Iraqi security agents reportedly decapitated numerous women and men in front of their family members. According to Amnesty International, the victims� heads were displayed in front of their homes for several days.

reportedly, no proper evidence....

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Iraq�s 1988-1989 Anfal campaign subjected the Kurdish people in northern Iraq to the most widespread attack of chemical weapons ever used against a civilian population. In the town of Halabja alone, an estimated 5,000 civilians were killed and over 10,000 were injured.

as sponsored by the United States of America

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In 2000, the Iraqi authorities reportedly introduced tongue amputations as a form of punishment for persons who criticize Saddam Hussein or his family.

reportedly.......no real evidence of it happening though....
In Saudi Arabia peoples hands are amputated, yet America aren't bombing them......

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There are widespread reports that food and medicine that could have been made available to the general public, including children, have been stockpiled in warehouses or diverted for the personal use of government officials.

where from? oh right, you copied and pasted this, don't know whether any of it's actuallytrue

Now I'm pretty sure Renegade or John Smith could come in and post a list twice as long of UN treaties that America, Britain, Israel, France etc... have broken......
and nothing you've posted there is good enough evidence to goto war over, if it was we'd be at war with pretty much everyone!
8 cents now!
how big a clue do you need?

quote:

Originally posted by guetag Saddam is a good guy ahh?

I never said that, he's a particularly evil man, but then again there are a fair few leaders of the world who are far from angels, and can actually cause a lot of harm to the world....
or are you just picking on him because he's an arab?

quote:

Originally posted by guetag so what are you saying?! his an evil man but if the us don't kill other evil leaders they should't kill him

thats exactly what I'm saying, it's not rocket science. You shouldn't have double standards for people who aren't receptive to western influences, and people that are......
then again North Korea also break as many (if not more) UN resolutions, they actually have nuclear weapons, and actively attack south korea regularly, yet nothing of note is happening to counteract the threat they pose to all human life on this planet.......
with any luck 12 cents is all you'll need to get the clue, and realise the war with Hussein is for nothing as noble as the Iraqi people, because when Hussein is toppled, the majority of people in Iraq still won't be represented, a member of the same clan as Hussein will be appointed, only he'll be more receptive to the west, and there big fat petrol guzzling SUV's.
Is that it?
I fucking hope so.......

quote:

Originally posted by guetag Saddam is a good guy ahh?

Obviously he was good enough for us to leave him in control of Iraq......

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Originally posted by guetag ok.. you are the smartest guy on earth Us,Britian,israel,france and more countries that support the attack of iraq are wrong..But AZ is right because he want peace.. stop being so "world saver" wannabe

What threat does Saddam pose to us again? Sure, he's a bad guy, no doubt, but we had our chance. Nothing he's done since is substantial enough for war on our part. Unless he does anything to us soon, any US strike would just be double Jeopardy and unjustified. As far as I can tell the people who want to attack him now are the real "World Savers" pushing their western ideals on to everyone else...

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Originally posted by guetag ok.. you are the smartest guy on earth Us,Britian,israel,france and more countries that support the attack of iraq are wrong..But AZ is right because he want peace.. stop being so "world saver" wannabe

from what I read in this thread you arent too bright either, so stop criticizing ppl. YOu havent presented any argument on your behalf except that lame article that was beautifully denied by Az.

Thanks for coming out champ, see you next season.

The thing is that Saddam is coaprating with the UN inspections.So there should be no reason to start the war.Of course you have to expect that he is not going to tell them everything.That's why they're there for.Either way,no matter what we say,War is emminint.This really bites.Thanks for nothing Bush,you goddamn looser.

quote:

Originally posted by TheDemon The thing is that Saddam is coaprating with the UN inspections.

BS

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77178,00.html

quote:

SHAWN: Bottom line, you think that Saddam, you think that Iraq is bugging your inspectors? BLIX: Oh, I would think so. As much as they can.

in his report to the UN on the 27th, he reinstated that under resolution 1441 iraq must actively aid in the disarmenment and prove that they have stopped all programs into WOMD instead of being a passive partner and letting the UN do all the work. Blix said that this was not the case and that iraq was not doing enough on its part to aid the UN in doing its job properly

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy BS http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77178,00.html

Foxnews has 0 credibility, there is no point in quoting anything they say.

read that - http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk_news/s...,814967,00.html

This is a partial transcript of Special Report with Brit Hume, Jan. 29, that has been edited for clarity.


Izzy stop picking out bits of the transcript that suit you, anyone can do that, for instance

SHAWN: Do you think they're trying to obstruct the inspectors, that they're trying to hide things and move them...

BLIX: No. No.


Anything owned by Rupert Murdoch cannot be trusted to be fair news...

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Originally posted by Az This is a partial transcript of Special Report with Brit Hume, Jan. 29, that has been edited for clarity. Izzy stop picking out bits of the transcript that suit you, anyone can do that, for instance SHAWN: Do you think they're trying to obstruct the inspectors, that they're trying to hide things and move them... BLIX: No. No. Anything owned by Rupert Murdoch cannot be trusted to be fair news...

sheesh guys, i meant for you to read the whole article, just to get the impression that although iraq is cooperating they are not taking an active role and could be doing more in aiding the UN to prove they should not be the recipient of american force

joeh152, fox has no credibility? prove it!

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy sheesh guys, i meant for you to read the whole article, just to get the impression that although iraq is cooperating they are not taking an active role and could be doing more in aiding the UN to prove they should not be the recipient of american force

I read the article, and all I got from it was that Eric Shawn was trying to put words in Blix's mouth.
Now Iraq is cooperating with what the UN, America and Britain etc.... have DEMANDED they do, and they're doing it without blocking access to anywhere the UN inspectors want to go. Admittedly they could probably aid the inspectors further, but for what? so the inspectors to report back, tell them they haven't got any weapons, and the Americans to bomb them anyway?
and lets face it, thats whats going to happen......

As far as I know, Blix rated Iraq's cooperation as 4/5.

quote:

Originally posted by Az I read the article, and all I got from it was that Eric Shawn was trying to put words in Blix's mouth. Now Iraq is cooperating with what the UN, America and Britain etc.... have DEMANDED they do, and they're doing it without blocking access to anywhere the UN inspectors want to go. Admittedly they could probably aid the inspectors further, but for what? so the inspectors to report back, tell them they haven't got any weapons, and the Americans to bomb them anyway? and lets face it, thats whats going to happen......

That's what Iam taking about.Kiss my ass Izzy!

quote:

Originally posted by TheDemon That's what Iam taking about.Kiss my ass Izzy!

Yes that's great dserves a warning as well if you ask me.
Demon, you have your opinions, would you mind if I post "Up yours" just because you post them?

quote:

Originally posted by Az Now Iraq is cooperating with what the UN, America and Britain etc.... have DEMANDED they do, and they're doing it without blocking access to anywhere the UN inspectors want to go. Admittedly they could probably aid the inspectors further, but for what? so the inspectors to report back, tell them they haven't got any weapons, and the Americans to bomb them anyway? and lets face it, thats whats going to happen......

here is a transcript of Blix's full report to the UN on Jan 27th
http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/01/27/sp...blix/index.html

quote:

Blix: "I'm obliged to note some recent disturbing incidents and harassment. " "Paragraph 9 of Resolution 1441 states that this cooperation shall be "active." It is not enough to open doors. Inspection is not a game of catch as catch can. " "Regrettably, the 12,000-page declaration, most of which is a reprint of earlier documents, does not seem to contain any new evidence that will eliminate the questions or reduce their number. " "Iraq has provided little evidence for this production and no convincing evidence for its destruction. " "What is clear is that they were illegally brought into Iraq; that is, Iraq or some company in Iraq circumvented the restrictions imposed by various resolutions. "

those are strong accusations, seems to me iraq is NOT cooperating fully

oh and btw in light of the US's new evidence as presented, we can cleary see how iraq is NOT cooperating

quote:

Originally posted by TheDemon Kiss my ass Izzy

classy
i wouldnt give you the pleasure

Americas new evidence....?

Just saw a fair amount of Colin Powells address to the UN, and it was far from convincing.
From the blatantly biased first page of the Powerpoint presentation ("Iraq, a trail of deceit" or something similar), to the extremely tenuous links with Al Qaeda, the maybes about them having Anthrax (they had it once, got rid of it, they may have kept some, and made 25,000 litres of it since....), and the explanation as to why the UN inspectors haven't found anything (They're moving extremely dangerous substances on the back of lorries around the country, without them being caught on satellite etc...).
As for the UN inspections, I can totally understand Iraqs anger at them, the UN inspectors are ferried around at Iraq's expense, nowhere is off limits, in the knowledge that these inspectors will report back with detailed information of military compounds + defence bunkers, and America and the British (and I'm ashamed) are going to bomb them whether they're guilty or not!

Meanwhile we actually KNOW North Korea are transporting enough Nuclear Rods to create at least 6 Nuclear weapons, and are posing a very real threat to the world.
now you tell me which is more the more important situation.....

quote:

Originally posted by Az Americas new evidence....?

the first definition of 'evidence' on www.dictionary.com:

quote:

ev�i�dence ( P ) Pronunciation Key (v-dns) n. 1: A thing or things helpful in forming a conclusion or judgment: The broken window was evidence that a burglary had taken place. Scientists weigh the evidence for and against a hypothesis. 2: Something indicative; an outward sign: evidence of grief on a mourner's face. 3: Law. The documentary or oral statements and the material objects admissible as testimony in a court of law.

there is no doubt in my mind that what Powell presented today is evidence.

quote:

Just saw a fair amount of Colin Powells address to the UN, and it was far from convincing. From the blatantly biased first page of the Powerpoint presentation ("Iraq, a trail of deceit" or something similar), to the extremely tenuous links with Al Qaeda, the maybes about them having Anthrax (they had it once, got rid of it, they may have kept some, and made 25,000 litres of it since....), and the explanation as to why the UN inspectors haven't found anything (They're moving extremely dangerous substances on the back of lorries around the country, without them being caught on satellite etc...).

the full powell speech
part 1: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77676,00.html
part2: http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77675,00.html

from AP http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20030205/ap_on_re_mi_ea/us_iraq_52:
"Played audio tapes of what Powell said were intercepted phone conversations between Iraqi military officers. One was a purported discussion about hiding prohibited vehicles from weapons inspectors. Another dealt with removing a reference to nerve agents from written instructions."

"Cited informants as saying that Iraqis are dispersing rockets armed with biological weapons in western Iraq."

"Presented declassified satellite pictures that he said showed 15 munitions bunkers. Powell said four of them had active chemical munitions inside."

"Said satellites observed cleanup activities at nearly 30 suspected weapons sites in the days before inspectors arrived. "

"Said Iraqi informants claim that Iraq has 18 trucks that it uses as mobile biological weapons labs. "

you dont call that proof as "Iraq, a trail of deciet" (or something similar)?

about the Iraq - al Qaeda collaboration Powell referred to senior al Qaeda operative Zarqawi as toxic expert, whose network based in north east Iraq runs facilities for training in use of poisons such as ricin.

Blair: Iraq Has Some Al Qaeda Links http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77618,00.html
are you now going to start to call the prime minster of the UK a lier as well? where will it end? lets just start calling anyone who supports a war on iraq a lier

the truth sometimes hurts

quote:

As for the UN inspections, I can totally understand Iraqs anger at them, the UN inspectors are ferried around at Iraq's expense, nowhere is off limits, in the knowledge that these inspectors will report back with detailed information of military compounds + defence bunkers,

so? they have to deal with it. their actions (or reactions) or not defendable, thats pretty pathetic to sympathise with someone who has committed a crime becuase you feel pity for him. of course i would be pissed if i caught shoplifting and had to pay the price for the item (maybe even spend an evning in jail if it was an expensive item or i did so with force) but there is nothing i can do, i would have to obey it. especially knowing that if i dis-obey the consequences would be even more grave for me.

quote:

Meanwhile we actually KNOW North Korea are transporting enough Nuclear Rods to create at least 6 Nuclear weapons, and are posing a very real threat to the world. now you tell me which is more the more important situation.....

lets not bring NK into this when we are talking about an 'inevitable' war on iraq. both are important, i would even be tempted to say that i think iraq's case is more important. war is the only option left to deal with iraq that i see. that is not the case with NK

quote:

Originally posted by DrUg_Tit0 As far as I know, Blix rated Iraq's cooperation as 4/5.

is that ok with you?
im sorry i'm so stubbern but i belive we desirve a 5/5

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy from AP http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tm..._ea/us_iraq_52: "Played audio tapes of what Powell said were intercepted phone conversations between Iraqi military officers. One was a purported discussion about hiding prohibited vehicles from weapons inspectors. Another dealt with removing a reference to nerve agents from written instructions."

Having just watched newsnight, and listened to Iran's reply about those tapes, I wouldn't be so sure it's saying what you Mr Powell said it was, "I won't attempt it now, as it's not the place, lets say something was lost in the translation, as you heard me laughing during the tape"......
don't believe all the hype either Powell has bullshitted us before about evidence with Iraq
http://www.guardian.co.uk/usa/story...,889419,00.html

quote:

about the Iraq - al Qaeda collaboration Powell referred to senior al Qaeda operative Zarqawi as toxic expert, whose network based in north east Iraq runs facilities for training in use of poisons such as ricin.

In the kurdish controlled area of Iraq, who's only connection with Saddam Hussein is that he Zarqawi stayed in a baghdad hospital to recooperate. Admitedly they do have a base in Iraq, but it's in a region not controlled by Saddam, it's controlled by the Kurds, so lets bomb them

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Blair: Iraq Has Some Al Qaeda Links http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,77618,00.html are you now going to start to call the prime minster of the UK a lier as well?

I have absolutely no doubt that Tony Blair has lied to the British Population on a number of occasions, he's a politician, it's what they do. I'll be voting Liberal Democrat next time, a party that won't sell the British people up the river......

quote:

the truth sometimes hurts

So the truth is a few dodgy tapes, grainy videos, laughable phone conversations? get a grip Izzy

quote:

so? they have to deal with it. their actions (or reactions) or not defendable, thats pretty pathetic to sympathise with someone who has committed a crime becuase you feel pity for him. of course i would be pissed if i caught shoplifting and had to pay the price for the item (maybe even spend an evning in jail if it was an expensive item or i did so with force) but there is nothing i can do, i would have to obey it. especially knowing that if i dis-obey the consequences would be even more grave for me.

read my sig

quote:

lets not bring NK into this when we are talking about an 'inevitable' war on iraq. both are important, i would even be tempted to say that i think iraq's case is more important. war is the only option left to deal with iraq that i see. that is not the case with NK

I believe it is the case with NK
http://www.guardian.co.uk/leaders/s...,888374,00.html

quote:

Originally posted by Izzy is that ok with you? im sorry i'm so stubbern but i belive we desirve a 5/5

Is English your first language? Use spell-check or something.

Keep watching Fox News, you'll be a very knowledgeable person eventually at this rate.

quote:

Originally posted by DJ P�O Is English your first language? Use spell-check or something. Keep watching Fox News, you'll be a very knowledgeable person eventually at this rate.

quote:

Originally posted by oDrori Yes that's great dserves a warning as well if you ask me. Demon, you have your opinions, would you mind if I post "Up yours" just because you post them?

I made a statement he called it bullshit, you want to reply to my statements go ahead. But if you do it in a manner I don't like, expect me to reply in a manner you wouldn't like.

you think too much
nice theory mind.....

Vesa... that was really interesting...
But do you think that the US would go through all that trouble to exterminate these terrorists... spending billions of dollars on miltary invasion? I htink your theory actually plays the opposite. They are looking for "terrorists" and weapons of mass destruction, but really, they want to control the oil.

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