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Just want to add....
If anybody is fucked around by labels, let us know, and if sum1 steals ur stuff do the same, and we can name & shame on i:Vibes for u, I think that a lot of u make some really good stuff, so if it got stolen, I can understand just how pissed off u'd be
Cheers for the info TUfaCe!
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| Originally posted by DaveC hhmm, i wouldnt say thats unlikely, depends how good it is. |
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| Originally posted by robstar Cheers for the info TUfaCe! Yeppz, Airbases track Genie sold 1500 copies I think. |
Hey guys I just wanted to add a little tidbit of info for you all....
In the US, the official site for copyright is http://www.loc.gov/copyright/ - You will definitely want to download and fill out form PA, which copyrights your original work - like the ideas and composition and stuff. If you happen to want to record a specific fixation (like a recording of a live performance of something you already had copyrighted) its for SR.
The reason you all NEED NEED NEED to copyright your stuff is like was previously mentioned - if you don't copyright your stuff, there is no proof that the work was yours. Also - that stuff about sending yourself mail is kind of hogwash. I read an article awhile back that said many courts would not accept the package as proof, simply because the package was in your possesion the whole time - so whos to say you didn't steam open the envelope and insert a recording of a track you wanted to steal? Besides that, in the US at least, before you're ever able to sue someone, there going to make you register the copyright with the library of congress ANYWAYS. So whats it going to be? Risk your protection to save a little money (still have to pay for certified mail anyways though) and then pay anyways, or just pay in the first place to ensure your protection?
Just a heads up for all you guys - just get it over with and you'll sleep better.
Ok now that I've posted that - I really really want to start submitting my music to labels, so wheres a good resource for addresses and stuff?
MIKE!
Whoops
ooops - one more thing guys...
Alot of you are probably cringing right now, thinking that each song will cost you $30. It doesn't have to cost that much actually - what you're allowed to do is neatly organize the songs on a piece of paper of something that describes the work and the track order on the CDs you've submitted or whatever - then you just submit all your songs at once, give them all one title, and the whole thing will cost $30. This doesn't mean they have to be part of the same album, just that they're registered under the same title/work/whatever with the copyright office. Read the FAQ's for more info.
ME
| quote: |
| Originally posted by DJMikeyP Also - that stuff about sending yourself mail is kind of hogwash. I read an article awhile back that said many courts would not accept the package as proof, simply because the package was in your possesion the whole time - so whos to say you didn't steam open the envelope and insert a recording of a track you wanted to steal? |
to be admissable it has to be sealed properly (with tape, and preferably string thru the hole aswell) although your best bet is depositing a copy with a bank manager aswell, so you have 2 sources of proof
Yeah it has its pros and cons - pros being third party type of a gurantee, con being the pay :-/ ... I wish you could just submit it to the library of congress for free - that would be 100% good.
Me
Yeah this has happened to a group i know, they are from Bergen, and sent a demo to a record company called "Road-Runner Records", and they didn't hear anything from them, and a couple of months later 'Coal Chamber' released a song with their riffs and melodies!
Justice of the Peace is a key word here, who will help you acknowledge the ownership of your productions
Some words of advice to all you producers from Sean Cusick
Taken from Sean's column @ www.xpander.nl.It's long,but well worth the read:
06-06-2003
A few small pieces of advice�
I have been thinking about certain things more and more but without much good effect. It started with this grand idea to write an article on record deals, to try and give some advice to young producers who are perhaps inexperienced in matters. It is my belief that some of this information may end up being important to them. It didn�t take very long for me to realize that I am also pretty inexperienced in these matters. So I asked around to a few people and came up with what may turn out to be valuable advice to whoever needs it. As a warning, this column might only be interesting to producers.
I have been pretty lucky in my dealings with record labels and label managers and in no way does any of what I am about to say reflect poorly on the labels I deal with, although I have learned a little bit along the way about how to protect myself. Most people who get involved in a record deal of any sort are hoping to make some money from the deal. If the record they�ve produced is any good then this very well might turn out to be the end result, but there are a few things to watch out for on the way.
There are several different ways to make money on music. Royalties, publishing and licensing are the three terms that come up more often than just about any others. When signing a record deal an �advance on royalties� is many times the only money you will ever see from that deal. This is not always the case and of course there are broad exceptions depending on the type deal you sign and the overall success of the piece of music in varying areas. Now, there really are very few industry standards when it comes to deals but there are a few accepted rates and conditions. To get a reasonably good �advance on royalties� you usually must have some sort of viability, whether that comes through your past releases and reputation or the merits of the work involved. Everybody thinks that they have quite possibly created one of the most startling and innovative pieces of music known to man and if only it would get the proper exposure and support then they and their music would be thrust into infamy. This simply isn�t the case. Consistency matters and for some people consistency is the only thing they have going for themselves.
As a general piece of advice I think it is a good idea to hold onto all of your publishing until you can get the right deal. Publishing was created to be an artist�s royalty and many labels will try to do what they can do to tell you they are doing you a favor by taking it off of your hands, that they cannot properly promote the record because their hands are tied by not owning and controlling the publishing. This is a bunch of bullshit. When they sign a deal their incentive should be to sell records. Everybody realizes that there is not that much money in selling records unless the records get to be pretty successful and even then the real money is made in licensing. They will cut you into the licensing fees as a general practice but by owning your publishing they will cut you out of quite a bit of money you might have made otherwise. Even if you do sign away some of your publishing to them to give them incentive to try and place your music in films, television or on mixed compilations make sure you are only giving them administrative powers over your publishing (rather than ownership of the publishing) and make sure that it is for a term (5 years or less). Try not to give them more than a 30% administrative fee for collecting your publishing. In the very rare event that your music is embraced by humanity and remembered forever you will die starving and penniless while these gutless ******s get quarterly checks made possible by what used to be your intellectual and emotional property. They will sit around their swimming pools watching their children, wives and possibly mistresses play in the sun while drinking expensive mixed drinks while you are roaming from trash barrel to trash barrel scrounging for pieces of bread that are still soft enough to eat. I promise you this will happen to you. There are no other alternatives.
So, hold onto all of your publishing as long as you can and try to sell it all in one deal when the time is right. Hopefully by that time you will know what is right for you. If a label does demand to own your publishing and there is very little chance that the music you�re making will have crossover potential then expect a 2nd advance for your publishing. It is a separate piece of your property and should be treated as such. But try to avoid this.
If the label you�re dealing with works very closely with a lawyer then don�t kid yourself. Lawyers believe that nothing is truly yours without a signed contract and that if you haven�t educated yourself on legal language then it is your own fault and you simply don�t deserve to be treated fairly anyway. Very few of them believe in a thing called �ethics�. They operate under the false premise that law is �ethics defined� and they will use these �ethics� to fuck you out of everything you�ve worked for and all of your dreams if you give them the chance. Then they will congratulate each other on how clever they each are by pool-sides in Florida or any other state that is corrupt and worthless enough have them. They are annoyingly ubiquitous but not god-like in that same regard.
What is theirs? Whatever they can take from you. Beware.
I have had a lawyer try to tell me that he was somehow doing me a favor by allowing me to sign over all of my publishing for life to him for $1 (yes, that�s one American dollar) and that it was a �fairly standard practice� in the industry. These spineless shit-slingers don�t usually create art, they are just positioned to exploit those who do. Without the infrastructure of law many of them would naturally fall into pimping or another related and foul endeavor. There are some lawyers who are kind, decent and fair though and many of them that I have talked with share and have echoed my feelings on the other sort among their kind. Exploiting people who are struggling to express themselves is a refined form of cruelty and one that I have very little patience for, although I�ve learned to be careful with them. Sort of like liquid acid.
Sign all deals under an artist�s name. Don�t sign away the rights to your birth name. This is the name your parents probably gave you and wanted you to own for life. Do not give it away. It can have consequences for whatever other plans you may have in life (ie. If you are a dj and you become very successful they might have a claim to some of your success because you accomplished it using a name that they own, be careful here. This is an extreme example though.). Be sure that the �options� in the contract are attainable. Don�t let them force you into producing a particular type of track only because that is what they are looking for. You can give them first right of refusal on a follow up track but make sure that they cannot dictate what style that follow up will be. Now, of course, if you only make one type of track then this won�t affect you very much and you will suffer the destiny that you have charted out for yourself by being a narrow minded nerd.
Talk to people who have made mistakes. Listen to what they have to say. Use their mistakes to your advantage. Use your wits and read the contract carefully. If the contract is in a complicated language that you cannot understand ask them to rewrite it in a more clear and understandable way. If they refuse to do this you can be pretty sure they are trying to fuck you over. Or your music simply isn�t worth the time and money spent on making things more clear to you. Move on at that point if you can. If you can�t afford a lawyer to look over your contract then ask a label manager that you know and trust that has no direct involvement in the deal you are signing. Some label mangers know and understand legal language enough to point out some obvious changes you should either request or demand in the contract. Contracts are written by lawyers. These lawyers work for the label you are dealing with. Don�t ever be fooled into thinking they are your friend or that their interests really lie in your success and well being. They are the undertakers and morticians of the music industry. They drink embalming fluid at their parties.
You�re going to get screwed a little bit. Everybody does. But it is a trade off to some degree. If you want your music out there you must swallow some of this. Don�t be led into believing that your rewards will come later. Some label managers will try to tell you they are going to do everything they can to promote the record in such a way that it will help your dj�ing career. Don�t believe this. Tell them that you are going to do everything you can to keep from shitting in their kitchen sink when you come to their house to enjoy drinks by the pool some Sunday afternoon with their wife and daughters.
Make sure there is a release timetable in the contract. Otherwise they can give you nothing or next to nothing and keep the record held in limbo for years. This will bring you no happiness. Make them stick to their contractual promises (within reason). Once they are in breach of contract then you have some bargaining currency, but not much. Make sure whatever obligations you agreed to are fulfilled by you in the manner stated.
So, an �advance on royalties� is many times the only money you will ever see from a project. Don�t accept an advance in installments or under any �you�ll get it in 2 weeks or 2 months after the record comes out� kind of way. This is not really much of an advance. An advance is generally something you get when you make the deal. A lot of labels are trying to hold back advances. This means that you might not ever get anything from giving your music to them so be careful with this. An advance should be paid no later then the week of release.
If the music is good (this doesn�t mean that you think it is good, but that many people think it is good, not just your friends on ecstasy at an after-party) then you should get an advance. Keep in mind that the label is there to make money so be willing to negotiate, especially if you make weirdo underground tracks for drug crippled ketamine freaks.
Make sure you get the proper credit on the record (label copy, artist�s credit). If you don�t have a publishing deal then make sure that �copyright control� is printed on the record sleeve along with the writing credits. Make sure the record will get proper promotion but be wary of paying the label �recoupable expenses� (remix, legal, transport, pressing costs, promotion). If they decide to go to Paris and they hand out a couple of your records while they�re there, make sure you�re not paying for their trip. Many labels do this and that�s why you never end up seeing any money after your advance. In fact, you can have a pretty big record and they�ll tell you that you still owe them money which will need to be taken out of your next release because they spent so much money partying in Paris and you had agreed to pay to them to promote the record. Some recoupable expenses are normal. A 50/50 split is understandable with certain expenses.
Some labels just disappear. There is nothing you can really do about this. When a label folds you are probably fucked. That�s why it�s important to check into the label a little bit before you sign. Make sure they are providing their artists with royalty statements (every 6 months) and make sure that they are paying royalties on releases. Make sure it is in the contract that if the label collapses all rights and ownership return to you (�complete rights to the Master Recordings�). Make sure all advances are non-returnable. Otherwise they might come after whatever money they gave you if they go out of business and can�t release your record. This is not your fault and you should not have to return any advance because they failed.
There are two basic types of licenses, exclusive and non-exclusive. An exclusive license means that no one else but them is allowed to use the recording. A non-exclusive means that it is for a particular use and you retain the ability to be able to use the music again elsewhere. Your label will generally get an exclusive license from you and then turn around and create non exclusive licenses with other parties in an effort to make revenue from their investment. This is normal and how labels make money. This is also how you make money if you have signed a contract that provides for that. A 50/50 split on third party licenses is pretty standard in the dance music industry. So the label gets 50% and you get 50%. If your work was collaborative then you and your partners should have 50% of those revenues to split amongst yourselves.
As for PPD (Published Price per Dealer) 15%-17% is pretty normal. This is the amount of money that you�re getting royalties on for each sound carrier for each individual unit sold. Beyond that it is complicated beyond my knowledge. In fact, no two people I spoke with could even agree what actually PPD stands for�
Make sure that you must approve the choice and fees for remix artists. Otherwise the label can get one of their friends to remix your music and pay them way too much to do so. This is more of your money lost.
Gravitate towards people and labels that you like and trust but be alert when making deals. It is the critical point that determines your future happiness. Each predicament is somewhat unique so don�t get lulled into just signing whatever contract they sent over assuming it�s the same as the last one they sent.
The longer you let a label hold �your money� the less they tend to see it as �yours�. Make sure that you have regular communication with the label but don�t be an annoying dickhead that thinks they love �the artist in you�.
Always make more music. As a general rule in life try to produce more than you consume, it will keep you happier than just sitting around fingering your ass-crack wondering why you�re not a star yet.
Good Luck,
Sean
[email protected]
I�d like to thank Chris Fortier of Fade Records and for his help and advice with putting this column together. I�d also like to thank Steve Porter for not interrupting me while I was talking...
good read.
this info will come in handy when i've made my killer track
this is good shit..
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| Originally posted by tu_face this is good shit.. |
I was wondering where it went off to.Cheers for moving it,Jeff
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| Originally posted by Sand Leaper Ah lol,so that's where my thread went. I was wondering where it went off to.Cheers for moving it,Jeff |
i did say in chat, but no one took a blind bit of notice as usual lol
This has been INCREDIBLY helpful. Thank you all for your contributions =)
greAt jOb breAking things dOwn
wOw... long reAd 
but definAtely wOrth it! thAnx for all the adviCe Sand Leaper;
---> and fOr reminding us all abOut the legal aspect of mAking tracks (the nOt so fUn pArt) 
Thanks alsO to everyone else who contribUted!
Re: Some words of advice to all you producers from Sean Cusick
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Sand Leaper Sign all deals under an artist�s name. Don�t sign away the rights to your birth name. This is the name your parents probably gave you and wanted you to own for life. Do not give it away. It can have consequences for whatever other plans you may have in life (ie. If you are a dj and you become very successful they might have a claim to some of your success because you accomplished it using a name that they own, be careful here. This is an extreme example though) |
more useful info here
| quote: |
| Originally posted by Maaz Do I need to sign away the rights to my birth name if I want to release a track under my own name? And I would like to be able to use it without major legal problems |
what a conveluted mess the production world seems to be.
so tough..
i cant imagine being stiffed on something you created.
i guess the point is, create something magical so its
signed by a bigwig label, which you know and trust.
Thanx!!
Thanx for letting know!
Apparently the UK is one of the jurisprudence systems within which you'll have to include that (c) logo to be able to claim the copyright. Is this the case also in the US? Just curious, which other legal systems incorporate this, to me rather foolish idea if you think of the meaning with this whole idea of authorship, "(c)-rule"?
| quote: |
| Originally posted by BetaFactory Apparently the UK is one of the jurisprudence systems within which you'll have to include that (c) logo to be able to claim the copyright. Is this the case also in the US? Just curious, which other legal systems incorporate this, to me rather foolish idea if you think of the meaning with this whole idea of authorship, "(c)-rule"? |
| quote: |
| Originally posted by BetaFactory Apparently the UK is one of the jurisprudence systems within which you'll have to include that (c) logo to be able to claim the copyright. Is this the case also in the US? Just curious, which other legal systems incorporate this, to me rather foolish idea if you think of the meaning with this whole idea of authorship, "(c)-rule"? |
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