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-- another prime example of fucked up laws in the us
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quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Blatently gonna wear my "Fuck America" t-shirt when i come to the states this/next year. Cocks

get me an extra one

quote from cnn:

Downs is the director of the Albany Office of the state Commission on Judicial Conduct, which investigates complaints of misconduct against judges and can admonish, censure or remove judges found to have engaged in misconduct.


/quote.

interesting...if the judges do convict him, i'm sure he'll put up a case and fuck the judge in the ass. hahaaa...of all people to arrest and send to court...and on grounds of a shirt?! this Downs guy for sure gonna stick it to them.

I'm pretty sure it's true because I saw it on CNN and on the local news. Stop blaming the US government for this. It was two mall security guards who took the guy to the police station and filed a complaint against him. The police had to respect the complaint because a mall is considered private property and thus they can file complaints much like any homeowner can file a complaint against a person trespassing. The guy was released on his own recognicance, and get this: he's a laywer who's on an ethics commission for judicial misconduct. So before you get all up in arms about how "unfree" America is keep in mind that it wasnt police who initially brought the matter up. A complaint was filed by two idiot security guards and the police had to investigate it and treat the matter much like any other complaint. Wish it was me ... I can just imagine how much money this guy is gonna get out of suing that mall.

And what would happen if the police wouldn't remove him.

Short and to the point. He was arrested for trespassing not protesting. If the private owner wants someone to leave his premises and they don't it is trespassing.

quote:

Originally posted by Neo nEro And what would happen if the police wouldn't remove him. Short and to the point. He was arrested for trespassing not protesting. If the private owner wants someone to leave his premises and they don't it is trespassing.

yea but that is violating his 1st amendment right, and it's a public mall

i guess this is true, but it is ridiculous. i am sure he wont get jailed for it. you dont get jailed for wearing t shirts, and it does have nothing to do with us laws, it has to do with two mall security guards, that is why they are security guards, they are stupid. now im not saying all mall security guards are, but they are

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Blatently gonna wear my "Fuck America" t-shirt when i come to the states this/next year. Cocks

^^^ you sound like a *smart* one so i'll pick on you this time. oooookay *m8*, so you are planning a trip to the states but plan to wear a "fuck america" t-shirt? well then dont be suprised when the customs lady has her finger up your *arse* looking for *contraband*, that might be further supported if you have darker skin. they tend to discriminate at the airports, well everywhere else these days in the US.

2nd. i advise you to please not do a silly thing as the one you've described above, because, as much shit you guys get away with talking shit about the US on these boards, you must realize that Americans - a GREAT majority of them still love this country, respect it and will defend it, even if they dont agree fully with the politics.

in other words, you might get violated in the most violent way soon after you step ground onto US soil.

as for this one...PvD definitely DID NOT take style tips from Tiesto. hmmm....looks like a *hiPPy on drUgS* hehe..good ol' PvD

quote:

Originally posted by Starfox

>JM<

quote:

Originally posted by DarkTrance yea but that is violating his 1st amendment right, and it's a public mall

It's not violating his first admendment right and it's not all that "public." Think of it this way, a "public" mall is still considered private property much like any other place and as such is subject to the owner's wishes. For example many restaurants have dress codes/no shirt or shoes no service policies. The same reasoning can apply to malls. Yes he can express his freedom of speech in a public place but not really a mall. Which more or less makes sense if you think about it. If a bunch of people protesting abortion at a mall near you clog up the entire area, your shopping is going to be disrupted. Same thing applies in these circumstance. The police can't simply say that "this is complete bullshit so we are going to ignore it" otherwise they are setting a precedent. More likely than not the case will be dismissed. A lot of people may disrespect our country because of weird stuff such as this but it only makes me love my country even more. It shows that we uphold the absolute letter of the law and that no matter how absurd it can be, we treat every situation with the same circumstance and respect.

I get what you said about violating laws that could disrupt things that happen in a public place, ie the normal everyday shopping of people if there were a protest etc. But this guy did NOT hamper the operation of the business at all. He just wore a t shirt that expressed a certain opinion. Big deal! As for:

quote:

Originally posted by occrider It shows that we uphold the absolute letter of the law and that no matter how absurd it can be, we treat every situation with the same circumstance and respect.

Upholding the letter of the law no matter how absurd it can be?? PFFFF! Come on man! Think! Use your head. Just because something is a law does not mean is unquestionable and perfect. It's like because it's the law I have to be a robot and blindly follow something without questioning it? The idea of treating every situation with the same circumstance and respect can be fine in some situations but there are ALWAYS exceptions to every "rule". I hope people start thinking outside of the box and stop blindly following things...
Next thing you'll know is someone will be doing something inside their own house that won't even be considered that blasphemous and the law/government will be cracking down on it as well in the name of "Freedom/democracy". Watch out big brother is coming (if not already here).

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Blatently gonna wear my "Fuck America" t-shirt when i come to the states this/next year. Cocks

FYI Not a good idea. Too many people with guns here.

The guy prolly did something stupid or tried to start a commotion.

The article also mentioned that the guy was charged for tresspassing. Surely, he was being charged for something other than a tshirt. The guy is prolly a well known protester and the security guard was afraid the man was gonna start a peace riot in the mall which would be very bad.

^^^^ .... err... yeah... probably...

occrider makes very good points, Endlesswave too

I AGREE WITH OCCRIDER

you need permission to protest anything, or even hand out anything in the mall, you must have owners permission, if a fight were to break out about politics because of two idiots then the owners would be held accountable, the "mall" was only trying to stay out of trouble.

Right now, war is a touchy subject here in the U.S. and people here tend to act some what aggrivated when faced with certain situations in public, and the guards at the mall may have felt it was in the mall's best interest to have the man remove the clothing that may spark an argument before something would happen or get out of hand. Because the man was at the mall, he had to act according to the rules. because he did not ,he was asked to leave, and because he did not leave he was tresspassing(sp)

point is, the man could wear the shirt wherever he wanted, just not on private property. just like if some one was wearing a shirt that said swastika in the mall they would be asked to leave. why, cause it could cause an argument on private grounds..... the shirt doesn't say anything harmful, some fanatical groups would consider it white pride.... it's just a symbol.... but some people do not agree, and no one wants a fight.

people need to learn that there is a time and place for politics.... and there is a time and place to stand up for what you beleive in and protest..... the mall... is not one of them... C'MON THINK ABOUT IT, your opinion is not going to change anything at the mall... why bother there? people are there to spend their money not join in the debate, if they wanted to debate, there is a place to go....

as for people who say fuck america, fuck you! If you don't like us then don't come here. And if you don't like it here, you are FREE TO LEAVE whenever you please......

the man purchased the tshirt in the mall. was he supposed to not wear it, because it could cause an argument? maybe he should have put it on outside? but it's still a public place, and could cause arguments. it makes me mad everytime i see one of those dumb fish on the back of christians cars, does that mean it's OK for me to have the cops take them off the road? no, they should have the freedom to express their views passively in a public place.

I agree that the security guards of the mall are protecting private property, and rightfully can ask anyone to leave for whatever reason. however, i think that it's a pretty sad statement of the USA's general unwillingness to accept an unpopular view. true, it's not a government policy, but the security guards expressed the policy, and the police backed them up, and they are all americans.

I agree with endlesswave that we have laws that must not be followed to the letter all the time, but rather interpreted as the situation warrants. I should mention that there was a disruptive peace protest in this mall in december, and maybe that is why the security guards did what they did.

Also, i did a little more research, and the charges have been dropped, after 100 protesters marched through the mall today.

http://www.newsday.com/news/local/s...enews-headlines

quote:

Originally posted by DJ Mikey Mike Blatently gonna wear my "Fuck America" t-shirt when i come to the states this/next year. Cocks

talk is cheap buddy

I don't think it was an unpopular view. I think that the mall security was afraid of some one else starting trouble with the man wearing the shirt. No one said anything about the lawyer or his son starting trouble. also, no one said that the two had to remove their shirts because it was an unpopular view. He was asked to remove his shirt because it was a popular ARGUMENT that in most cases people don't agree on, and may cause a problem. All it takes is ONE comment from some ignorant asshole like "fuck saddam" or "fuck peace" or "fuck america" to start people on a heated path to fighting. The mall wanted nothing to do with this kind of behavior and attempted to stop it before it began by asking the persons to not wear their shirts. The shirts were not being sold as product either..... the man had the shirts custom made at a T-shirt shop located in the mall.... I don't think any stores would be allowed to sell such items strictly because of this issue.

I just hate to see people judge america for some simple issues here... Are we all of a sudden a bad country just because there is an issue in a mall? there plenty of other countries that would have shot some one on the spot for him making a shirt displaying a political view... there are countries out there that cut off your hands for stealing bread never mind wearing something they don't like. You people were acting like the poor 61 yr old man was beaten and roughed up by the police and mall security for wearing the shirt when nothing liked that happened..... weak...

quote:

Originally posted by HardTrance81 I don't think it was an unpopular view. I think that the mall security was afraid of some one else starting trouble with the man wearing the shirt. No one said anything about the lawyer or his son starting trouble. also, no one said that the two had to remove their shirts because it was an unpopular view. He was asked to remove his shirt because it was a popular ARGUMENT that in most cases people don't agree on, and may cause a problem. All it takes is ONE comment from some ignorant asshole like "fuck saddam" or "fuck peace" or "fuck america" to start people on a heated path to fighting. The mall wanted nothing to do with this kind of behavior and attempted to stop it before it began by asking the persons to not wear their shirts. The shirts were not being sold as product either..... the man had the shirts custom made at a T-shirt shop located in the mall.... I don't think any stores would be allowed to sell such items strictly because of this issue. I just hate to see people judge america for some simple issues here... Are we all of a sudden a bad country just because there is an issue in a mall? there plenty of other countries that would have shot some one on the spot for him making a shirt displaying a political view... there are countries out there that cut off your hands for stealing bread never mind wearing something they don't like. You people were acting like the poor 61 yr old man was beaten and roughed up by the police and mall security for wearing the shirt when nothing liked that happened..... weak...

this guy made a good point. . . .if you took any other problem in society such as discrimination etc . . . . and put a slogan on a shirt supporting your view and wore it to the mall, some ppl are gonna get offended and may start a riot.

but yea, just because you buy something in the mall doesnt give you the right to openly possess it in the mall. . . .take knives, swords, etc for instance.

I'm not saying that we should follow everything told to us blindly but which would you rather have ... the police take down EVERY complaint no matter how ridiculous and sorting things out through the judicial process, or a police that makes their own judgment as to what they think is worth taking note of? Believe you me, I would rather have the former. Cmon you've seen the tv show cops, 80% of what's on the show are stupid, retarded people calling the cops for stupid reasons, but the cops still show up to take down a complaint or resolve the issue. That way you ensure that when a cop NEEDS to be there they are. We don't need to be blind robots but I think that a good cop is one. I would much rather have a cop that follows the absolute letter of the law than come across one who is prejudiced, biased, or thinks that an issue isn't worth his time.

quote:

Originally posted by occrider I'm not saying that we should follow everything told to us blindly but which would you rather have ... the police take down EVERY complaint no matter how ridiculous and sorting things out through the judicial process, or a police that makes their own judgment as to what they think is worth taking note of? Believe you me, I would rather have the former. Cmon you've seen the tv show cops, 80% of what's on the show are stupid, retarded people calling the cops for stupid reasons, but the cops still show up to take down a complaint or resolve the issue. That way you ensure that when a cop NEEDS to be there they are. We don't need to be blind robots but I think that a good cop is one. I would much rather have a cop that follows the absolute letter of the law than come across one who is prejudiced, biased, or thinks that an issue isn't worth his time.

The cops are just upholding the law.... some one makes a complaint, it's the police officer's job to see to it, no matter how silly it is. Thats why we have a judge! the police officer is to keep peace in the streets according to how the law is written. And then we have a judge, who can determine whether the charges are worth keeping and enforcing. Judges are trained officials who have the right to make the decision if the word of the law literally applies to the situation. for all we know, those charges on the man with the shirt could have been thrown out the next day in court. the judge could have told the man that it was wrong for not listening to the security at the mall, and that the trouble he whent through in the mall was enough, therefore dropping the charges. OR he could have sentenced the man to 10 years in prison and then have the man stoned to death in public because thats how we arrogant americans deal with such crimes of unpopular views here.....

point: police are not supposed to make a call, the judge is. thats why we have judges.......

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